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Clarifying "Karma"
If I do metta, I know that I am more likely to think in the same way "naturally", which is "good" for me and others.
But is the action of the metta practice dictated by the law of karma? If I do metta practice, is that only because of past conditions?
The big question: How much of what we do is karma and how much is personal choice? Is everything I've ever done just a reaction?
Does personal choice (as per its conventional meaning) even exist?
Edit: Sorry, I dont know why I put Karma in quotes
But is the action of the metta practice dictated by the law of karma? If I do metta practice, is that only because of past conditions?
The big question: How much of what we do is karma and how much is personal choice? Is everything I've ever done just a reaction?
Does personal choice (as per its conventional meaning) even exist?
Edit: Sorry, I dont know why I put Karma in quotes
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When you do metta, you are changing your imprints. This will eventually change your karma. It's no different than when people decide to lose weight, get in shape, or quit smoking. It's a choice.
I know this makes it all sound easy ... it's not. Our biggest imprint is our ignorance and our attachment ... that's a whole lot of imprint to override ... lifetimes!
What i mean is, when you make an effort to change your imprints, why is that not caused by other newly formed imprints?
Is the seeking out of the dharma not caused by the expereince of these imprints?
See that makes perfect sense to me. It also links perfectly to the idea of not being a seperate self: eg no-self.
The idea that everything we do or experience in the present is solely conditioned by past actions is how the Jain doctrine of kamma is portrayed in the Pali Canon (i.e., the straight line theory of causality). The Buddha, on the other hand, took the position that our experience of the present is conditioned by both past and present actions (i.e., the non-linear theory of causality).
We had a discussion about a similar topic a little over three years ago:
No control—the absence of choice in the present moment?
Although my positions and understanding of Buddhism have changed somewhat in that time (especially away from the Abhidhammic perspective), you might find it interesting. (Rereading it really makes me miss Bobby. He was a great debater.)
My current opinion is more or less that expressed by Thanissaro Bhikkhu in "Karma":
So, instead of promoting resigned powerlessness, the early Buddhist notion of karma focused on the liberating potential of what the mind is doing with every moment. Who you are — what you come from — is not anywhere near as important as the mind's motives for what it is doing right now. Even though the past may account for many of the inequalities we see in life, our measure as human beings is not the hand we've been dealt, for that hand can change at any moment. We take our own measure by how well we play the hand we've got. If you're suffering, you try not to continue the unskillful mental habits that would keep that particular karmic feedback going. If you see that other people are suffering, and you're in a position to help, you focus not on their karmic past but your karmic opportunity in the present: Someday you may find yourself in the same predicament that they're in now, so here's your opportunity to act in the way you'd like them to act toward you when that day comes.
But even thats dependant on what you have learned in the past. Right?
But:
I think its very much worth not sticking/grasping to an idea like straight line theory of causality, since the Buddha taught that just attaching to ideas is full of danger. (but then even that is an idea to a degree)
I'm probably just grasping for something still.
Thanks Jason!
In part, sure, but the real danger is that if you keep up this line of thinking, you'll simply tie yourself up in mental knots trying to figure out how much control you really have. I've personally found such lines of thinking to be little more than a "thicket of view" and better left aside.
Continue with the appreciation and understanding of practices like metta? And how they will continue to change my (and as such others) experience?
Thanks again to all
One further question: If not all actions are totally dictated but karma, what are they partly dictated by? If there is no seperate me, what is it that decides outside of karma?
(I wont obsess about this, just looking to learn)
As intentional actions that have consequences, which is why you should try to be mindful of them and act on skillful intentions (those that don't lead to harm) as opposed to unskillful ones (those that do).
Sure, especially if it helps your practice and doesn't lead to the harm of others, because that's the whole point.
Action are kamma that arise out of intentions, which in turn arise out of a complex mixture of mental functions and stimuli that I don't fully understand.
If some decisions arent totally determined by karma and they are partly personal choice, the choice motivation part seems to come out of nowhere, since there is no seperate me right now to have a motivation. (or at least nowhere thats expressable)
If everything is subject to causes and conditions, why is what I do not totally bound to karma?
Sorry: Posted this after your edit, man.
Honestly, I don't know, and I see little point in worrying about it.
Ultimately, our actions arise out of the complex piece of organic machinery that is our brain, and you're better of asking a neuroscientist about it than me.
there are two part in karma
karma we create now (this moment) (what we do, say, and think)
and
karma vipaka at later (the results of what we have done, said and thought at a previous time)
whatever we experience now with our six faculties (eye, ear, nose, tounge, body and mind) are our own kamma vipaka
whatever we do, say, think as a reaction to such experience is our kamma creation now
if we just react to such experiences that is conditioned behaviour, there is no decision taking even though we think we are the ones who take decisions
but
if we take a time and be mindful to see that there is no need to react to this experience because this will too pass (anatta or anicca) and act but not react accordingly then that is skillful action and a decision we take without submit to conditioning
we need skilful acts (thoughts, speech, and deed) on the way to enlightenment
not only us (worldling) but those Noble ones who enlightened act with skilful mind until their last birth ends
See, I like this too, since it doesnt state any one thing as over powering and still enables a sense of empowerment. That latter of option makes volitional change possible.
Tho, the fact that I like it makes me suspicious lol
If there is no seperate me, how can there be an even partly seperate decision?
From what you said, what causes us to decide to be mindfull?
at the beginning, the faith in Buddha' Teaching
at a later stage our own experience of Buddha's Teaching
Ok this could go on for a long time but, what causes that?
If nothing, that has has no causes and conditions?
one conditioned for it namely, one has created good kamma before for one to meet Teaching
for example
you found this forum
you are conditioned (previously created kamma and finding the forum is the kamma vipaka) to ask questions related to karma
if you are not skilful you just ask questions to convince upekka that s/he doesn't know Buddha's Teaching but s/he is trying to show off
your intention (is the kammar) may or may not to help her but to show off yourself
if it is to help upekka then your action is skilful
if it is to show off yourself then your action is unskilful
see that asking the same question it can be skilful or unskilful according to the intention
the question asks (we say speech) is not the kamma but the intention behind asking it is the kamma
again your intention is genuine and want to get clarification of kamma that is skilful
because the knowledge you will get you will apply to your day today life and you will be able to walk the 'path' (Noble Eightfold Path) skillfully
Thank you Jason! That's the best, simplest description I've ever heard. All of my previous (mis)understanding about karma was of the straight line theory. That seems to be the prevailing non-Buddhist way of looking at it. I must say, I like the Buddha's way much better.
Mtns
think of it this way. our IQ depends on our genes. but if we study hard we can still get good grades. or if we skip all the classes, we will flunk the test.
nonetheless, in Mahayana perspective,by karmic default we are could only do the endless cycle of the lower six paths ( hell, hunger, animality, asura, human and deva ) , to get into the higher noble paths of learner, self-realization , bodhisattva and buddha - they need to exert in efforts of practice , study and correct direction of aspirtation <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Dealing with difficult people and situations still affects me, but taking refuge in in my mind again and again and remembering impermanence helps give courage and strength to change my karma.