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Please share your view on Equanimity
What is your understanding of equanimity? What does equanimity mean to you?
Do you feel you have achieved it in your life?
I'm especially interested in hearing people's personal experience and views (not so much suttas, doctrinal discussions, debates, etc.).
Thanks for sharing!
Do you feel you have achieved it in your life?
I'm especially interested in hearing people's personal experience and views (not so much suttas, doctrinal discussions, debates, etc.).
Thanks for sharing!
0
Comments
And you know how a lighthouse, on a turbulent, stormy, dark, thunderous winter's day, with zero visibility, and a sea that is churning ferociously, and foaming white for miles, is just standing there, immovable and constant?
That's equanimity.
To be immovable and constant, no matter what is going on around you.
According to me....;)
It means not being attached to comfort.
It's a mind that is free of the passions of attraction and aversion.
Not yet...
I have no equanimity. Hot women make me sigh like a snake with desire. I'm like a hungry ghost but that is never fed. I'm terrified of death due to my unfulfilled desires, lack of equanimity. I feel doomed.
You only feel the way you feel by permitting yourself to feel that way.
It's a question of 'seeing things as they really are'....
The moment you let go of the notion that "This is wrong, that is right, this is bad, that is good" then serenity has room to move in, and things become calmer.
The more you evaluate matters in a negative light, the more equanimity will evade you.
So....
Hot women make you sigh like a snake with desire?
Cool. Slake that thirst, then examine how fulfilling it was for you.
If it makes you feel good, continue.
If not, cease.
How difficult is that?
Only as difficult as you choose to make it....
So.....
You're like a hungry ghost but that is never fed.
What food do you imagine you need?
So.......
You're terrified of death due to your unfulfilled desires, lack of equanimity?
Why?
Death is easy.
It's the build-up that's the challenge....
Don't be enigmatic.
Start a thread, we'll try to help.
How's that?
I don’t believe that equanimity is something that we actually do. I think it is a by-product of Clarity.
As we watch life very closely in our Buddhist practice, it causes us to step back somewhat from the vicsisitudes of life, and see them more objectively. We also at some point become aware of an island of peace within us, which is where we actually stand all of the time, often unnoticed.
Often we don’t even notice the extend of which we are protected in this way, until something terribly tragic takes place in our life, and we are astounded by our own strength.
Such an event happened to me, a truly tragic event some 10 years ago now. I have no doubt that if this very same event had happened to me earlier in my life, it would have devastated me, maybe even destroyed me.
Somewhere along the line, however, I had reached a point where I could understand this event in context, and was able to see its inevitability, maybe even (all things considered) understand that it was for the best, for everyone included.
I won’t say that that event didn’t slap me around a bit…but believe me I remained relatively unscarred. I was able to walk through this firestorm of events, unburned.
Although life had certainly become a roaring hurricane at that period of my life, I was able to remained within the “eye “of that hurricane, maybe a bit wet, but not totally blown about by the storm.
A few quotes you might enjoy:
Q: “Insight is a deep seeing into the nature of things as they are. One of the primary insights is the nature of impermanence. In the deepest forms of this insight, we see that things change so quickly that we can’t hold onto anything, and eventually the mind lets go of clinging. Letting go brings equanimity; the greater the letting go, the deeper the equanimity.”
Q: (Freedom evinces itself)…”when we begin to let go of our reactive tendencies. We can get a taste of what this means by noticing areas in which we were once reactive but are no longer. For example, some issues that upset us when we were teenagers prompt no reaction at all now that we are adults. In Buddhist practice, we work to expand the range of life experiences in which we are free.”
Respectfully,
S9
Excellent quote! Thanks...
Since then I have sometimes practiced this (not scratching itches during meditation), and I feel it is a useful practical training in mindfulness.
Thanks for sharing the story of the tragedy you went through. What do you believe allowed you to get through that ordeal? What gave you the level of equanimity you needed to do that?
Z: Great quotes, Subjectivity9: who are the speakers/writers?
Answer:
Equanimity: adapted from a talk by Gil Fronsdal, May 29th, 2004
Address: Equanimity_%20Insight%20Meditation%20Center.mht
Z: Thanks for sharing the story of the tragedy you went through.
S9: Oh, you are quite welcome. : ^ )
Z: What do you believe allowed you to get through that ordeal?
S9: It is not always easy to understand exactly where our strength actually comes from. Often it is a little of this, and a little of that, added together and more; a Gestalt. But I can share with you some of the things I believe contributed to it, if you like. : ^ )
(1) I have been practicing watching my breath for a good long time, now. I started with only noticing it when sitting on the cushion, and only occasionally noticing breath during the day, whenever I was either emotionally or mentally uncomfortable, or in some way suffering. I used this method to subtract myself to some degree from automatically reacting and getting lost in the story of what was taking place.
I was able in this way to purchase back my calm, and also take a step back from whatever was bothering me. In this way breath became like a psychological (Teflon) armor in the battle we call life. Watching breath with persistent practice grows slowly, but surely, until you find yourself doing it pretty continuously during every waking hour. It is almost like a partnership in which you are no longer alone.
Quote: “Pray constantly.”
(An Enlightened Christian Mystic) Brother Lawrence
(2) I also practice a kind of Mindfulness, which allows me to examine everything that happens in and around me in much deeper detail. I have come to see everything, EVERYTHING, as an opportunity to clarify what I think I know, and probably don't. So if something so/called bad happens to someone I love, or me, or anyone for that matter, I try to be open to this and be grateful (on one level) for this opportunity to learn.
I won’t say (or pretend) that I am always happy about what is happening. But, not being happy is also an opportunity to see clearly. This is almost like every day is Christmas...in a way. It is not that you become totally heartless. It is more like you are not willing to waste your suffering, and not gain in any way from it.
Have you ever noticed that the worst things that happen to you, given time, often (no always) turn into a blessing in disguise? Much of my ability to help others, and to grow in compassion, has come directly out of my own pain.
The equanimity comes in during all of this, because simultaneously you are also finding that still center within you. It is you own Awareness, which remains untouched.
In searching events, and yourself very closely, you are bound to stumble on Pure Awareness, (Buddha Nature), which is Ever Present. Once you find do it, and it begins to nourish you, then you are able to take up residence in it, and never leave home.
There is probably a lot more I could say. Perhaps any human being could write a book about what got them where they are, and why. So I won’t go on and on and on... and on and on. (The crowd heaves a Big sigh of relief.)
; ^ )
I hope this answers your question. But do feel free to question on anything you find I have made a little vague. : ^ )
Peace is a skill,
S9
So if I'm understanding you right, you are saying that through the practice of watching your breath during meditation, coupled with the practice of mindfulness, you have found a place of Pure Awareness (Buddha Nature) within you; and you have learned how to abide in that Pure Awareness continuously.
Is that accurate?
Z: So if I'm understanding you right, you are saying that through the practice of watching your breath during meditation, coupled with the practice of mindfulness, you have found a place of Pure Awareness (Buddha Nature) within you.
S9: Let me say it slightly differently than you have, not because you a wrong in any way, but rather to be just a bit more meticulous in the phraising in order to get across to you what exactly I am experiencing. : ^ )
It started out that meditation was when I was sitting on the cushion, but now I am realizing that what I was looking for in meditation wasn’t an improvement of any kind, but a discovery of what already IS, all of the time.
In other words my mind’s life is meditation, all of the time, and this is the same with you and your mind. All that is needed is to notice this. Meditation is a practice to see beyond the veils of the mind that obscure Pure Being, yet at the same time you have always been Pure Being. It is like practicing to find your own head. ; ^ )
Yes, I still hold on to breath with my mind, and do mindfulness, because it has become so much a part of me. These two are actually melded into one practice now of being mindful while also watching breath. Yet, what I have discovered is who I have been all along, unceasingly, that being Pure Awareness. It was Wrongful Identification with the mind, and her many ego stories that had been the confusion all along.
When you see Buddha Nature as simultaneous with the mind, and Buddha Nature simply allows the mind to dream along automatically, and yet you do not completely fall back into dreaming, it is a little like Lucid Dreaming. In other words, you are awake in the dream of finite life.
Z: You have learned how to abide in that Pure Awareness continuously.
S9: Everyone abides in Pure Awareness continuously. After understanding this intellectually for many years, I am now becoming quite clear on this issue, experiencially.
Warm Regards,
S9
And if you could explain it as clearly and simply as you can, I would be grateful. Your posts have a tendency to sound very "spiritual" and "profound," but a simpler, plainer communication is often more effective. (Just imagine you're explaining it to a kid--the fancy, ethereal terminology is only an impediment to understanding.)
This sounds very interesting, but again, it's a bit unclear exactly what you mean. Please explain as clearly as you can, and don't worry about "sounding spiritual". Just say it plainly, please; thanks.
Is this really true? An ignorant bigot walking around harming everyone he comes in contact with does not seem to be abiding anywhere near Pure Awareness.
If everyone abided in Pure Awareness, there would be no need to learn the way to get there. Yet the Buddha taught us the way to get there, so clearly not everyone is there.
Unless you mean something else by "abiding"--please clarify, thanks.
or being attached to discomfort either.
On too many occasions I've talked with folks who are attached to their suffering as something that makes them special or important.
The Buddha warns against the "victim mentality" in the Dhammapada:
By "comforting" ourselves in suffering, or identifying with it, we only perpetuate the suffering.
That all depends on what "scripture" you are reading and are attached too. Many "srciptures" including the "Heart Sutra", make it very clear, that the "word" is not what is important. SO to achieve "equanimity" is to relinquish the belief that it exists independently from conditioned existence. All that we do when acknowledging the importance of "equanimity" , is to raise its' opposite "imbalance" or "troubled mind". The practice of Buddhism goes beyond defining words. Most of the scriptures that teach belief are for those who need to believe. That is fine. But it is not law, or what the "Buddha" taught.
S9: Equanimity takes on multiple forms. So yes, equanimity is certainly a word, and a concept, but it is also (without any doubt in my mind) a subjective state of mind. This might be similar to the sky, which certainly is a word, and yet at the very same time, not just a word. : ^ )
Unfortunately, however, the second we try to communicate or indicate anything to another with the use of words, it is going to seem like whatever we have said is just a word, or a concept.
(A ‘Catch 22’)
I hope that you can see, through closer examination of your own personal experience that a state of mind, any physical event, or even a mood, might easily be something that is experienced directly without the use of words. Alan Watts called this the "Concrete," as apposed to conceptual mind.
Saying what is actually experienced both directly and subjectively by any one of us, can only be understood because these experiences are very similar in each one of us. Using words is a necessary medium in communication, or a tool of convenience .
S9: Only if your practicing is ‘trying to be without opinions,’ which incidentally is an unnatural state of mind, (forced) and cannot be maintained indefinitely off the cushion. ; ^ )
I do not believe the human mind can look at anything without immediately forming an opinion. The mind is dualistic, and can only understand through comparison.
(AKA, Co-dependent Arising.)
Did you not just give your Opinion, right here, that “there is no such thing as equanimity,” “that equanimity is (only) a concept," etc? ; ^ )
S9: Are you saying that the Buddha did not ‘Wake Up,’ and was deluded if he dared to claimed such a thing?
S9: Yes, isn’t that what Buddha did? I believed that Buddha also assigned others to assist him in this big enterprise, even while he was still alive.
I see this forum as an e-sangha, where we come together in order to share, as well as help and encourage one another. Buddha didn’t expect us to always just "go it alone," or he wouldn’t have referred to the sangha as “One of the 3 Jewels.”
S9: Practice what, if there is no Ultimate knowing?
Warm Regards,
S9
The mind prefers to have pleasure. But it will take pain over feeling absolutely nothing. Apparently there is nothing more painful than a large degree of stimulation deprivation.
This shows up in many ways.
If you put someone into solitary confinement in a jail cell, and they cannot amuse themselves without others being around, they will go crazy very rapidly.
If you put them in a tank of water and a regulated room that is designed to avoid stimulation of any kind, they will soon begin to hallucinate.
If a person has a mental illness, where they cannot feel anything having withdrawn to that extent, they will begin to self mutilate.
Perhaps this is why our mind is in constant flux.
People who think peace is found in the mind by stopping change complete are mistaken.
You can taste of stillness in the mind, while in a trance state. But, it cannot be maintained while off the cushion.
It is in allowing mind to work naturally, and at the very same time understanding that you are not the mind (Wrongful Identification), that we find peace.
Warm Regards,
S9
You ask really good questions, “tuff stuff” for my little, old gray cells. ; ^ )
I am going to organize my thoughts a bit more, in order to do justice to your excellent questions, and get back to you very soon, I promise.
Cute Quote, I ran into:
"The brain is a wonderful organ: it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get into the office."
– Robert Frost
Miles of Smiles,
S9
I think that whether you consciously enunciate the principle of equanimity in your life; or whether you experience it without realizing you're doing so; or whether you have no real idea what it's about yet; the ability to maintain equipoise between the vicissitudes of life, and not be swayed by either clinging or aversion, is said by all the sages to be among the most crucial steps along the path to self-mastery and enlightenment.
Therefore I deem it a worthy subject for exploration; and I am gratefully learning from the insightful comments being made here, your own included. Thanks!
Z: What do you mean by "the mind's life is meditation"?
S9: This is what I mean by the statement that, “Mind’s life is meditation.”
The mind is always attached to something, or some thought, and Pure Awareness is always simultaneously 100% Present in the Here and Now, or what is sometimes called the Immediate Moment.
In meditation we act like this is something we are doing. We think by doing this we will gain something. But what actually happens given time is that we simply NOTICE that it has been going on all along, and actually requires No help from us, at all. This is what some people call Wu Wei (None interference) …or “Look mom, no hands.” ; ^ )
Z: Your posts have a tendency to sound very "spiritual" and "profound," but a simpler, plainer communication is often more effective.
S9: Yes, and I am sorry for this.
I believe a part of the problem is that I am using a dualistic language (all language is dualistic, and speaks from a perspective of two-ness), while at the same time I am trying to indicate the dimension of Oneness, or something that is in no way co-dependent.
It is a little like dancing around a Maypole, (pagan symbolism for this very dilemma.)
Z: This sounds very interesting, but again, it's a bit unclear exactly what you mean.
S9: Don’t try to organize my words into a word picture. Look directly at your own experience and try to see it there. When finally you do see this it, it will be more like an intuition than some kind of a thorough outline. The strange thing is that it is right in front of your face, obvious all the while, and you are looking right through it.
Perhaps this is why so many sages, when they finally see it, laugh out loud. ; ^ )
I had a friend who spoke to me of these things with me for a number of years. I grilled him incessantly. I used to get so ‘dog-gone’ frustrated. It was similar to the well-known metaphor about wanting Realization as much as a man being held under water too long and needing to breathe.
Yet many times the words just bounced off of me. This is the lay of the land, my friend. One day an insight or two comes clear. Often after hearing the very same words again, and again. But this time they take root. When this happens, you realize too that what you received was a surprise and not what you had imagined you were after, yet better, and somehow familiar.
RE: S9: Everyone abides in Pure Awareness continuously.
Z: Is this really true?
S9: Indeed it is. Pure Awareness, or Buddha Nature, is WHAT YOU ARE.
It is a little like an ancient story about a man, who on hearing about a great golden treasure, went traveling all across the world looking for it, high and low. Finally, growing weary, he can home (surrendered) and found the treasure right under his own hearth.
Z: An ignorant bigot walking around harming everyone he comes in contact with does not seem to be abiding anywhere near Pure Awareness.
S9: Ever man is seeking the same thing, his own satisfaction and happiness. Sometimes they are sadly misdirected. You can turn around in an instant and all is forgiven.
Wasn’t it Malarepa who was very much into the dark side with great passion, and who when he turned completely around in that same life became 100% enlightened?
Z: If everyone abided in Pure Awareness, there would be no need to learn the way to get there.
S9: Buddha said, “We are all Buddhas. The only difference was that he knew it.”
Z: Yet the Buddha taught us the way to get there, so clearly not everyone is there.
S9: Not how to get there my friend, but how to notice where we are already.
He did this by showing us what the mind was first; a temporary dream. When you first stop dreaming, you are coming closer to waking up. But when you are completely caught up in the dream, there is very little chance that you will notice you are sleeping.
Our thoughts are the stuff that dreams are made of. Most people actually think their thoughts are who they are. Only when we first start meditating do we notice that monkey mind is jumping all around, and not really in control.
Warm Regards,
S9
S: I've already tried it, keeping myself aware of the breath in normal activity, and it does have a subtle yet profound effect.
S9: It makes me very happy that you were able to put this to use in your life.
The great thing about this watching breath continually, as simple as it sounds, is that with persistence all defilements begin to gently and naturally fall away.
A little trick I learned helps to train the mind in remembering, is to choose certain times during the day, like driving to and from work, really anything that doesn’t take all of your attention, and watch your breath during them. I even named them (Buddha called this labeling) to make them official. I would call it the ‘driving to work meditation,’ or the ‘standing in line meditation,’ ‘exercising in the gym meditation,’’ the peeling the vegetables meditation,’ like that. It becomes a ritual in this way, and doesn’t depend on pure memory to do it.
The strange thing that you will notice right away is that breath makes these chores more pleasant. You may even find yourself looking forward to chores that you used to consider just a pain in the neck.
I had a friend who used things in his environment to remind him, too, and gently bring him back to breath. For instance whenever looked at his watch, it reminded him.
Choose something you do often anyway as a reminder, like whenever you get up from your desk at work, or if you have a habit of itching your ear, or when you have your morning coffee. By joining things together like this, it makes it just that much easier to remember.
Warm Regards,
S9
I thought you might enjoy theses quotes, I ran into in my reading, and want this address. I will answer your post as well, time permitting. Early spring is quite busy on our farm here in TN.
Quote: Practicing with Our Breathing
by Josho Pat Phelan
http://www.intrex.net/chzg/Pat1.htm
I think unconsciously we try to control our state of mind and external circumstances by controlling and holding our breath as if by holding our breath, we can hold back what we fear. Our breathing does not function independently from our emotional and mental activity. So the more we practice awareness of the breath, the more we become aware of all our experience.
In Zen practice we get to know who we are, to know the nature of our mind and the nature of reality by being present with the detail of our experience and accepting this rather than trying to change who we are or manipulate circumstances.
Suzuki Roshi taught us to practice with this area by placing our awareness and strength in the hara. As you develop your awareness of the hara, you will develop a groundedness that you can return to throughout the day. If your awareness of your breath has not yet settled into one of these areas, experiment and find which one feels more familiar, more comfortable. But once you choose a place of concentration, try to stay with it and give yourself a chance to settle in and develop your concentration in that area. It's like exercising a muscle, it takes time to develop.
Warm Regards,
S9
S: Watching the breath is watching life.
S9: Yes I would agree. Most of the time we go about our life habitually. Some have likened this to ‘sleep walking.’
S: Normally if we're not really paying attention, we think of ourselves as a static "thing."
S9: Yes again, we see our body-self and mind as continuous things (nouns), instead of on-going processes (verbs). We are under the impression that by naming something, ourselves, that we magically make them solid.
S: Watching the breath can remind us that each breath is life, and if this conditioned process were to end, so would we.
S9: Some yogis say that each in breath (inhalation) IS a birth, and each out breath (exhalation) IS a death.
If you watch very closely, you might even notice that any one thought cannot outlive any one breath. That is why we can put on the brakes with our breath. Change your breathing and it changes your thoughts.
The reason that we believe our thoughts have a longer life than one full breath is because many similar thoughts keep coming up, one after another, like separate beads strung on a single string of Awareness. (I don’t know where the Buddha said this, because it has been years since I read it.)
This is a little like that old saying, “You can’t step into the river (in the same exact place) twice.” This is because the river, too, is a process. Taoism calls life “The Flow.”
S: At least, that's what I get out of it. Because it's a reminder that we are a process, things that we might have an aversion to are less of a problem because we are distancing ourselves from our Non-Self.
S9: I think that you are seeing something that is quite useful, in this way. When we take things for granted, and don’t understand that they may not always be present, some of the joy goes right out of our life. We live just skimming the surface of life.
When we see just how temporary everything is in finitude, we begin to look at them more deeply, savor them, feel gratitude for each gift that comes into our life, and find more satisfaction in each moment.
More isn’t the answer to happiness, deeper, and deeper still is.
: ^ )
We also begin to see what is not our self, and this lifts a great burden off of us. Life becomes more like play.
We see that many of the things that had previously pushed us around, unmercifully, claimed to be quite serious, really “don’t really add up to a hill of beans.”
It is very stressful to think that we are never enough, and that everything needs fixing.
: ^ (
Peace is a skill,
S9
I agree with everything you're saying here. My only question concerns your statement that "our minds are always attached to something, to some thought."
Are you sure that's true? I have had experiences during meditation--quite a few, in fact--where my mind wasn't "attached" to anything: it was abiding in a place of emptiness, stillness, quietude, and waiting; a place between thoughts.
Granted, I'm not able to sustain this "gap" for long periods of time yet, but it is gradually widening.
Are you saying that even during such times, my mind is attached to some thought?
I had not been thinking of breath as life, but you are right, it is.
It can become a meditation on the precariousness of life (life literally "hangs by a single breath"), but also the miracle of the body, which is simultaneously performing thousands of complex functions to keep us alive.
Such meditations can definitely be a kind of awakening!
I have also found that by putting a "label" on something, we tend to stop the flow of its energy; for suddenly the phenomenon becomes "that thing," and can no longer be something else. Our thinking becomes more rigid and less flexible, and we drift into thinking in terms of "black and white," "right and wrong," etc.
Great insights, S9.
Z: My only question concerns your statement that "our minds are always attached to something, to some thought." Are you sure that's true?
S9: Pretty darn sure. : ^ ) Let me explain why I am saying this. Most people who claim to be in a place without thought, go on to explain to you that they were looking around and what they felt. If mind were to be in a place without thought, it would be more like deep sleep.
Do you see this differently?
Awareness is a more vacuous state without definitions. It is not what you are looking at. It is where you are looking out from. It is our very essence, and yet cannot be explained in mental terms.
Often when people experience Awareness, they think that is mind without thoughts.
Z: I have had experiences during meditation--quite a few, in fact--where my mind wasn't "attached" to anything: it was abiding in a place of emptiness, stillness, quietude, and waiting; a place between thoughts.
S9: I have no doubt that you are telling it how seems to you, in all honesty. But, think on this if you will. Waiting is a thought state. Emptiness is how the mind describes Awareness. But, Awareness isn’t empty of Awareness. It is only empty of mind stuff. Stillness, quiet, all of these are real thoughts about what you are experiencing. But they are only as close as the mind can get to describing Awareness.
Mind is a thief. It steals Awareness and claims it to be just another thought.
Z: Granted, I'm not able to sustain this "gap" for long periods of time yet, but it is gradually widening.
S9: Mind can straighten itself in order to hold onto this preferred state. But, because it is a mind state, it cannot do this indefinitely. Awareness on the other hand is never diminished by time. It doesn't vary and is constantly Present to every thought.
Z: Are you saying that even during such times, my mind is attached to some thought?
S9: Yes, if nothing else. mind was attached to the concept of no thoughts are going on now. The mind can hold on to blankness, which is a mind object. Blankness is a mind picture. When you get there again, just notice who is looking. It will not be a persona.
I am very interested to hear your way of seeing this very issue. : ^ )
Warm Regards,
S9
Well, I'll chime in here because i kind of disagree with your take on emptiness and awareness. There is "awareness without an object", that is my practice and has been for about 15 years. There are thoughts that float through the day, and sometimes i get stuck on some karmic trip i have not "over come", but usually there is no clinging or substance to my/the mind. Therefore it is not attached to anything or to the thought of anything. It is floating freely without interruption. I am sorry if you think that is impossible, but in my experience it is the way it is.
S9: Yes, indeed, Awareness is objectless. However, mind is not the very same thing as Awareness, from what I have witnessed.
Granted this distinction it very subtle, because mind is superimposed right on top of Awareness, like a coat of paint, and it likes to claim everything to be the mind. But, from what I have experienced, everything is not the mind.
I believe if you look a bit closer that you might notice that your mind always has direction, either looking inwardly or outwardly away from itself, and being dualistic requires an object of some kind to define itself.
Awareness, on the other hand, never move, doesn’t need to move, because it is everywhere all at once, or omnipresent.
S9: Granted given time and clarity mind will appear to stop clinging to so many things and concepts, esp. when you have seen the error in that clinging, and the suffering that accompanies it. But Mind is a child of Samsara and never completely escapes Samsara. You might enjoy an excellent book, ‘No Escape,’ by Rinpoche Chogyam Trungpa.
Please notice that I am not claiming that Awareness is a prisoner of Samsara. Awareness is Transcendent of, or completely outside of the mind. It is mind that is swimming IN Awareness, like waves are in the ocean.
Mind is constantly dividing things up and labeling these divisions, which makes objects appear to be separate, (but only to the mind.)
Awareness, on the other hand, cannot possibly BE divided. Where is the separation in the ‘ONE?’ This whole idea of separation IS the illusion, is the suffering.
Q: “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”
We do not save the mind from Samsara. Samsara IS the mind. Although I do admit that we can learn to live more wisely within Samsara through ‘Skillful Means.”
What actually happens, when we do finally ‘Wake Up,’ is that we see that we are not the mind and her many dream worlds, (AKA We are no longer ‘Wrongfully Identified.’)
S9: Attachment is very subtle. I welcome you telling me in some detail how you see that your thoughts are totally unattached. To me the idea of floating is just one more thought, and my guess is that if you enjoy it, you would probably miss it if it went away...attachment. : ^ (
I also believe that we can entertain many ideas, and feelings like floating aimlessly, when nothing much is going on. I do doubt however that if you were being chased by a man-eating tiger that you would not continue to float. More than likely you would be riddled with great fear and be running like the devil was on your heels.
I do not in any way mean this disrespectfully. I believe this is just the lay of the land or our natural state of our mind. I am curious what you might say to this. : ^ )
Warm Regards,
S9
I have read many of Trungpa's books, i especially like the "Myth of Freedom" which i think covers this subject fairly well. It is not about freedom, or escape....it is about non-attachment and giving up the delusion that mind can be free. Remember the statement that Nirvana means something like "the flame being blown out", it exists no more. This is similar to what i am trying to describe. There is nothing for the mind to attach itself to, it only attaches to illusion, which is brought about by conditioned existence. As one teacher said "Some illusions are bigger than others." Like being chased by a tiger. Or having a fox show up and kill two of our chickens.
Just yesterday evening a person i have not seen for 30 years came to our place. I was glad to see them but when they left a ton of memories flooded MY mind. I was a lot different person way back then, and my mind wanted to catch up with the reality of what the visit was for, why, what is my response to be, etc..... karma, we all have it. In fact i think that clinging is a basic part of our original nature. Without it we would waste away.
I am not a expert in Buddhist philosophy and i find the fine distinctions hard to grasp. I do not read anymore Buddhist literature, i did for about 12 years when i started the journey of practicing Buddhism. I much prefer practice....mind empty, heart open, body dancing.
Permanent awareness? Permanent consciousness?
Was it mind, was it the five aggregates or was it greed, hatred & delusion?
When the suttas say "vinanna nirodha" (cessation of consciousness), what actually ceases?
This is why the Buddha offerred the following advice:
:smilec:
The mind has many aspects. Awareness is simply one aspect of mind.
You have been posting your Soul (Atman) theory for so long now. :eek2:
Below is a Buddhist teaching often given to new students:
Not really. Mind objects are superimposed on top of mind consciousness.
The Buddha taught there are six sense consciousness that relate to six sense organs and six sense objects.
The sixth set is mind, mind-consciousness and mind objects.
Sounds like Brahma or God. Such an experience comes from clouded or defiled insight. The Buddha said:
The word samsara means 'the cycle of wandering'. What cycles & wanders is greed, hatred & delusion and the mind trapped by those things.
But the mind itself, is not really related to samsara. The liberated mind is here & now but is not a child of samsara.
More Brahma doctrine. The Buddha taught there is no permanent mind.
No. The Buddha taught there are five aggregates, four of which are mind aggregates. The aggregate of perception & then formations divide things up. But not the aggregate of consciousness. The aggregate of consciousness simply is aware or knows but does not divide.
It certainly can be divided because it depends on sense organs. Awareness moves from one sense organ to another, plus out if sleep and into sleep. One type of awareness arises with one sense organ, then ceases before another type of awareness arises & ceases with another sense organ.
It is just your mind's discernment is not sufficiently accute to discern this. As I previously said, whatever insight you think your mind is having, is defiled or clouded insight.
Separation is not suffering. The Buddha never taught separation is suffering. But the Christians teach seperation is suffering.
The Buddha taught greed, hatred & delusion leading to attachment is suffering.
Silence. Silence is a temporary state of mind because every human being must break their silence. Silence is not Nibbana.
The Buddha taught the spheres of infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness and non-perception were not Nibbana.
Nibbana is the cessation of greed, hatred & delusion.
A mind free from greed, hatred & delusion can talk all day and all night without suffering.
There is no need to be 'hyper-sensitive', projecting 'self-view' left, right & centre, above & below and to the four corners of the universe.