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Was Buddha a democrat or a republican?
Brian
Detroit, MI Moderator
So which is the more "buddhist" party....
This CAN degenerate into a bush vs. kerry thing too, I'd be kinda interested to see how this pans out.
Thoughts?
This CAN degenerate into a bush vs. kerry thing too, I'd be kinda interested to see how this pans out.
Thoughts?
0
Comments
I don't think there is a political party in the US that even comes close to the ideal of "putting all others before one's self". There are too many corporate interests and corrupt officials. Greed is the only true religion in this country. Perhaps even this world.
I never really understood why people say this, considering the word 'free' has many different denotations. Especially after it was in a 3 Doors Down song! ugh..
I hope you're not one who gets arrested for taking a Sierra Mist Free without paying for it because you thought it didn't cost anything! (love that commercial!)
Oh, and Buddha would be a democratic socialist, of course!
I hope you were able to quench your thirst in some other manner!
www.sierramist.com if you're REALLY interested
try this one:
http://www.do-not-zzz.com/
sorry for hijacking this thread!
Brian,
I agree.
Adiana
Or maybe he would not vote as he walked the middle path.
He evinced no interest in 'human rights', being more interested in human woes. His attitude towards women was phallocratic and hierarchical.
The Future Buddha? Who knows? Capitalism, democracy, dictatorship, all are temporary solutions to the problems of dukkha and ignorance. They will pass. They are only the most recent, local attempts at governance.
I take Refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha.
I believe, from what I've heard, that he took this stance in order to give women a better deal.... he had to conform to society's contemporary rules....
If he had taken the 'equality and not inferior' line, all "hell" would have been let loose.... he maintained that with the entry of women into the sangha, the Dharma's life would be shortened. There are some schools of thought that have explained that this is because of men's lustful thoughts and weak flesh, not because of women's incapacity to follow the Dharma and be Sangha members.... Ananda did finally convince him to ordain the nuns who had diligently and persistently followed him. But he never intimated that women were inferior in any way. In fact, I believe that somewhere, he states that Enlightenment is easier for Women than for Men..... And most theological Religions are followed by the majority of Women, and Men are in the minority.... Why do we suppose this is the case?
Women have the greater capacity to be spiritual due to their brain wiring....it's got nothing to do with Superiority/Inferiority.... But most Religious World-leaders are Men.... Again, Why would this be?
There is a Chinese saying that states Men are 99% Sceptical and 1% Spiritual... Women are 99% Spiritual and 1% Sceptical.... but it is just as difficult for a Woman to overcome her 1% as it is for the Man to overcome his 99%.....
I sense a good discussion coming up..... :type:
Or do you all think this is just :bs: ?
As for his queer stance on women, there could be multiple explanation for this.
1.) One explanation is that this was added later on after his death by a male dominant Sangha.
2.) Another explanation could be that he was protecting the women of that time. The caste system in India was very harsh and women were not treated as equals to men. He could have been attempting to make sure that if they were ordained they had extra rules to protect them from the generally accepted treatment of women.
3.) Yet another explanation is that he did not want to upset the social structure of the people because at that time women were placed in arranged marriages for social postions, wealth, and strenghtening alliances (family-wise, as well as politically). To allow women the choice to leave their home life and family was giving them a choice they never before had. Families would be losing a relative, and a commodity of sorts. This could have easily out-raged the public causing a backlash and persecution of the Buddha's followers.
As for the claim that allowing women to ordain would weaken the Sasana - this is one of the few things in Buddhism that I do not agree with. I do not think women weaken anything, especially the holy life. I have recently met a bhikkhuni. She spent a serious meditation retreat with Ajahn Geoffry and then spent an intensive retreat with Ajahn Sumedho. She is well versed in the Suttas as well as a serious meditator. If the Buddha was reluctant because of the fear that the women would be treated poorly by a male dominated society, I can accept that. I cannot seem to accept it when it refers to women as being somehow less than men.
It seems that his conversation with Ananda implies that the Buddha subscribed to the view that women were not equals, but that is not the case. The Buddha recognized only that individual beings were not equal in respect to virtue, concentration, wisdom, perfections, etc., which has nothing to do with being male or female:
"Then Mahaprajapati Gautami, together with her four companions and five hundred other Shakyan women, approached the Blessed One and, after paying obeisance to him, sat down to one side. And Mahaprajapati Gautami said this to the Buddha:
`Blessed One, the appearance of Buddhas in the world is rare; instruction in the True Dharma is difficult to obtain. But now the Blessed One...has appeared, and the Dharma whose preaching is conducive to tranquillity and parinirvana is being expounded by him and is causing the realization of ambrosial nirvana. It would be good if the Blessed One were to allow women to be initiated into his order and ordained as nuns.'
The Blessed One said: `Gautami, do not long for the initiation of women into the order, or for their ordination as nuns.'
Now Mahaprajapati Gautami, thinking that the Buddha would not give women a chance to become initiated and ordained, paid obeisance to the Blessed One and took her leave. Then, together with her companions she approached the Shakyan women and said: `The Blessed One will not allow honorable women to be initiated and ordained as nuns. However, let us honorable women cut our own hair, acquire our own monastic robes, and attach ourselves to the Blessed One's party and follow after him...wandering where he wanders throughout the land of Koshala. And if the Blessed One allows it, we will be initiated, and if he does not allow it, we will lead a chaste life in the presence of the Holy Buddha....'
Mahaprajapati made her request two more times, but was refused by the Buddha. After the third refusal, a monk saw her crying and reported this to Ananda. Ananda asked her about the cause of her distress, and when she told him that the Buddha had refused her request to ordain women, Ananda offered to plead her case to the Buddha.
So, approaching the Buddha, he paid obeisance to him and sat down to one side. Sitting there, he said: `The appearance of Buddhas in the world is rare....It would be good if the Blessed One were to allow women to be initiated into his order and ordained as nuns.'
Thus addressed, the Blessed One replied to the Venerable Ananda: `Mother Gautami should not long for the initiation of women into the order or for their initiation.'
[After being refused again, Ananda asked the Buddha:] `Blessed One, how many assemblies of disciples did enlightened buddhas of the past have?'
The Blessed One replied: `Previous buddhas, Ananda, had four assemblies of disciples, to wit, monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen.'
Then the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One: `Blessed One, the four fruits of monastic life--namely, the fruit of a stream-winner, the fruit of a once-returner, the fruit of a non-returner,[32] and the highest fruit of arhatship--can a woman who is earnest and zealous and who dwells in seclusion realize any of these?'
The Buddha replied: `Yes Ananda, a woman who is earnest and zealous and who dwells in seclusion can realize any of these four fruits of the monastic life.'
`Well then,' the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One, `since...enlightened buddhas of the past had four assemblies--namely, monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen--and since women who are earnest and zealous, and who dwell in seclusion are able to realize the four fruits of the monastic life...it would be good if the Blessed One were to allow women to be initiated into his order and to be ordained as nuns. Moreover, Mahaprajapati Gautami performed some difficult tasks for the Blessed One; she nourished, fed, and suckled him after his mother had passed away. And for this the Blessed One is grateful and cognizant.'
[The Buddha agreed to the validity of Ananda's statements and then thought to himself:] `If I oppose the request of Ananda a third time, this will cause him mental distress, and the teachings which I have revealed and entrusted to him would become utterly confused in his mind. I would like my true Dharma to last a thousand years, but it is preferable that Ananda not become mentally distressed, and that the revealed teachings not become utterly confused, even though, this way, my true Dharma will abide but five hundred years.'
So the Blessed One proclaimed to the Venerable Ananda: `Ananda, [I am willing to allow Mahaprajapati Gautami to be initiated and ordained, but first] I wish to make known the eight cardinal rules for nuns, which they should respect, esteem, honor, and venerate for as long as they live....
(The eight rules require that: (1) any nun, no matter how senior, must respectfully salute a monk, no matter how junior; (2) aspiring nuns must undergo a two-year training period, and then be ordained by both the communities of monks and nuns; (3) nuns must not criticize monks; (4) nuns maynot receive alms before monks; (5) nuns who violate rules of conduct are subject to disciplinary action for a fortnight and must then seek restitution from the communities of monks and nuns; (6) every fortnight the nuns should ask the monks for instruction; (7) nuns may not spend the rainy season retreat in the company of monks; and (8) after finishing the rainy season retreat, nuns should request the ceremony marking the end of the retreat from the communities of monks and nuns.)
`Ananda, if Mahaprajapati Gautami accepts these eight cardinal rules, does not engage in any of the deeds that may occasion expulsion from the community, and observes the precepts, she can, from now on, be a nun, initiated and ordained.'"
I do not know the truth of what he actually thought about women, but if I thought that he looked upon them as inferior I would not follow his teachings.
THis is why Tara refused to consider any reincarnation other than female.... she, Prajnaparamita ('Mother of all Buddhas') and other female deities are rightly respected and revered, as supeme beings/Buddhas in their own right.....
Hope foot is still lodged at base as support of body, vertically below mouth....
On a side note, if anyone recalls my quote from above:
"As for the claim that allowing women to ordain would weaken the Sasana - this is one of the few things in Buddhism that I do not agree with. I do not think women weaken anything, especially the holy life. I have recently met a bhikkhuni. She spent a serious meditation retreat with Ajahn Geoffry and then spent an intensive retreat with Ajahn Sumedho. She is well versed in the Suttas as well as a serious meditator. If the Buddha was reluctant because of the fear that the women would be treated poorly by a male dominated society, I can accept that. I cannot seem to accept it when it refers to women as being somehow less than men."
I have some extra information about her if anyone is interested. She has recently founded the first bhikkuni vihara in Northern California. It is very exciting that the monastic order of ordained women is rising from the ashes of its near extinction almost 1,000 years ago. There is a dramatic increase in all traditions of fully ordained women. So, about the Dhammadharini (which means "upholder of the Buddhadhamma" - in the female tense):
"Ayya Tathaaloka Bhikkhuni is an American-born member of the Buddhist Women's Monastic Sangha with a background in Zen and Theravadan Buddhism. Venerable Sister Tathaaloka began monastic life sixteen years ago, and was granted Higher Ordination by an ecumenical gathering of the Bhikkhu & Bhikkhuni Sanghas in Southern California in early 1997. With the encouragement of her long-term mentor, Ajahn Maha Prasert, and the expressed wish of many Sangha friends, both lay and monastic, she has recently been involved in opening Dhammadharini Vihara, the first Theravadan Buddhist women's monastic retreat residence in Northern California, where she currently serves as Abbess."
Also, an article from the Buddhist Channel:
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=2,1592,0,0,1,0
Jason
Nice to have the update.