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Is it possible to cultivate.... without the concept of an afterlife?
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Can you elaborate?
If anything Buddhism should teach us that logic and reason are not enough, that our intelligence generally causes us to be blind to reality and in subservience of the self. If we can't back away from something and see that the one or the other are both still intrinsically attachments that will be further supported and solidified, closing a part of us, well, there's not much I can say. People who believe blindly are just as attached as people who disbelieve without proof; the difference is whether it's an active or passive belief. By that I mean the active types are the ones that are not tranquil enough with themselves but must seek for others to agree.
Without direct experience, self-knowledge (wisdom) of rebirth either being true or being false, we can only hope to understand it on the conceptual level for what it has to offer. If we have a problem with it, it is a personal problem caused by the self. I understand rebirth conceptually, have had my own realizations of truth that help me put my "self" on the back burner more or less, and have come to the conclusion that there's no reason to either believe or disbelieve. I'll wait and see, patiently, continuing to practice the path until (if) it becomes clear. Any other course is a distraction and is unskillful in nature.
If it exist, it is not anomalous.
All of these issues boil down to is there or is there not an afterlife.
I think the Buddha taught that there was none, he was against all versions of afterlife, I believe.
Therefore to me it doesn't matter particular version is being debated, they are all part of the same belief that there is more to life than this.
Just be open to the possibility and move on.
This moment, right now.
No, it is enough to know that all systems are impermanent, empty, interconnected and inevitably negative.
Relevant to the governing principles of this universe as, we know them, it is anomalous:)
These skandhas are constantly in motion, separating and combining into different forms, including what we think of as our bodies, personality, thoughts, and emotions. Our clinging to these skandhas, and our belief that they add up to an impermeable self or soul, is the root of our suffering. This clinging is caused by ignorance, and Buddhist teachings and practices are designed to help us break free of this ignorance.
Recognizing the constantly changing state of our own awareness through Buddhist meditation and mindfulness may naturally lead us to an understanding of rebirth as the Buddha taught it, and help us on our path.
Relevant to the governing principles of this universe as you believe they are, yes it is anomalous:)
I just cannot imagine why you would think that:)
Can we have a rule here were we don't accuse people of being in suffering offline based on how they are in online discussions, that's very lame yet very common here.
Actually my belief in this view becomes more sure the more I think and talk about it:)
I am happy with that view, i also kinda belief it. BUT and this is the big but for me, it needs to always be compatible with logic and reason.
Dont forget there seems much evidence from biology etc against rebirth.
Dont forget there seems no evidence that supports rebirth that doesnt support heaven etc.
I may be unskillfull, but at least I try to question:)
Mat
That's all I'm going to say. I've spent a lot of effort trying to show you that you're beating your head against the wall, but if you're intent on continuing these debates, just tell me plainly to go away and I will. Like I've told you before, I've been where you are now and you remind me of how I used to be. I thought if anyone could help you that I could, but perhaps that's just my mistake.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA#p/u/0/qulM37mcksA
It is about people who "know they are right, they understood, they worked out all of the details of the thruth..." and they go on telling others whats true...
sounds familiar?
I am quite prepared to read and respond to any personal stuff you want to PM to me. After nearly 5000 posts here, I fear that I shall continue to use and cite my own experience, just as do you. After all, you shared with us your father's profession, should I not do the same?
In fact, of course, if we reject doctrine and dogma, we fall back on personal experience and proof, erecting general theories therefrom, like dear old Papa Freud. We go on doing it until we realise that each new 'truth' we appear to uncover is just another story we are telling ourselves. The map is not the territory but all we know are more and more complex maps.
Truly, Mat, are you asserting that 'goodness and love and peace and kindness come from nothingness'? Although this is my belief as well, I wonder how you arrive at it without attributing some sort of 'will' to this 'nothingness'. This is the great Mahayana paradox: dynamic sunyatta.
Please do show me how, from a state of mind that declares that we should all be nihilists rather than mystics, you arrive at a 'nothingness' which is fecund.
we're done here, because in spite of requests to not permit the discussion to go that way, the discussion has yet again gone that way, with Mat pulling in one direction and everyone else pulling in the other.
People, if you want this argument to cease - stop contributing to it.