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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2006
Brigid,
The very real danger, as you have just illustrated, is that we can get so bogged down with all these different and varied aspects of Buddhism, that we fail to grasp, or lose sight of the underlying continuous, clear and pure message of Buddhism.
Just be.
I cannot say I can fully empathise with what kind of a fear you experienced, because i have never had to face a situation of that kind, but I have known fear and apprehension. I'm sorry you went through it.
But I can understand your feelings of confusion and being put on a back foot, so to speak...I very often feel that way about the long "Buddhism 202" types of threads.
And that's ok.
That's acceptable to me.
I just go back to what I know for sure.
I too am sure that these descriptions of the six realms are explanations for the different aspects and states of mind. It is eminently logical and recognizable, so I too, am relieved to learn of the hidden meaning.
As to the previous link...It seemed a little bit odd reading it, when we have become so used to the phraseology and language of the sutras as presented by the likes of Will, Elohim, Zenmonk and Palzang...
It's a bit like reading the last supper in terms of -
'And Jesus said, "pass that glass over, I'm dying of thirst here, and where's the sliced loaf? Gisse it here, i'll hand it round, fellahs...."
So take, breathe in and accept that which enables you to see the truth face to face. The rest, calmly leave aside as not for you.
Thank you for dealing with my panic with respect and gentleness. And thank you for that second link. It really helped and will continue to do so. I had been thinking that these states of mind we get ourselves into were "realms", so to speak, because I can truly understand them that way and it's always much easier to face the fear that's standing in front of you than the one that's lurking in the unknown future.
So, I am truly O.K. with this, Fede. And thanks. I'm feeling soooo much better. And I'm glad I had the opportunity to do a little work with the panic while it was here. It's almost all gone now and I'm heaving nice, deep sighs of delicious relief.
Actually my personal interpretations of the realms of existence is that they are not physical places but mental states... At what point of evolution is a human no longer one? Can a human with god-like powers be considered a god?
But still... Would I still like to be born proud? :rockon:
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2006
This has been touched upon in a different thread, but pride can have more thn one definition....
You can take pride in your work, or your appearance...you can be proud of yourself without being boastful....
In French, (and this applies to other European latin-based languages) Pride can be translated as
'Orgueil' or as 'Fierté'.
The first denotes an egotistic pride, the second a more noble one... But it also depends on context.
As with all things, Pride can be good bad or neutral. The danger is in the attachment - in how much it drives US as opposed to how much and in what way we manifest it, and pay it any degree of excessive attention. If we cling to it, then it becomes an unskillful action....
We have spoken about other potentially explosive emotions before, (like Anger)... The trick is to see them for the impostors they are, and for the dangers thay pose with regard to being obstacles in our way along the Path.
Incase you are interested, the Buddha did not teach a doctrine of pubbekatavada (past kamma determinism). In fact, he refuted this very idea, along with three others, as really being a doctrine of inaction:
While it is true that what we have done in the past has created the conditions for certain possibilities to ripen in the present, to hold the view that everything is determined by our past actions is not Right View.
Jason
I agree. Nothing is predetermined. But some things are inevitable. The tendencies that we build up since beginningless time create a certain kind of mind, and then the Path is determined by the particular way in which that particular mind can be unwound.
But it's an undoing of ignorance, not a constructive process, and so it is not determined. When the house (of ignorance) is finally broken, there is no law of absolute sequenced events that describes how it will break or where the pieces will wind up.
But someone who has experienced the breaking of his own house can walk into one that is about to break, and tell you which tool to use to make the whole thing come down right now, and they do. All the time.
Oh, and hey, I almost forgot to mention. The question that Buddhafoot asked is a typical symptom of a mind that will be solved by the Buddhist Path.
The term "convert" comes from our (westerners) culture of having strict, "from-birth" religious upbringing. Just like most polar western thinking, we tend to feel that in order to "become" a buddhist you have to convert to one and STOP being whatever you were before.
It's just a misconception based on our ignorance. You can't blame us for it, we were raised this way!
I know it's going back to the first page, but good point! At least we don't live in a caste system :usflag: :ukflag:
I know it's going back to the first page, but good point! At least we don't live in a caste system :usflag: :ukflag:
Indeed! We actually live in a cast-out system.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2006
Indeed.
whilst we live in a society rife with prejudice and seggregation, no matter who the victim or why, then we live in a "caste" system. Or as Simon so eloquently puts it, 'cast-out'.
Comments
The very real danger, as you have just illustrated, is that we can get so bogged down with all these different and varied aspects of Buddhism, that we fail to grasp, or lose sight of the underlying continuous, clear and pure message of Buddhism.
Just be.
I cannot say I can fully empathise with what kind of a fear you experienced, because i have never had to face a situation of that kind, but I have known fear and apprehension. I'm sorry you went through it.
But I can understand your feelings of confusion and being put on a back foot, so to speak...I very often feel that way about the long "Buddhism 202" types of threads.
And that's ok.
That's acceptable to me.
I just go back to what I know for sure.
I too am sure that these descriptions of the six realms are explanations for the different aspects and states of mind. It is eminently logical and recognizable, so I too, am relieved to learn of the hidden meaning.
As to the previous link...It seemed a little bit odd reading it, when we have become so used to the phraseology and language of the sutras as presented by the likes of Will, Elohim, Zenmonk and Palzang...
It's a bit like reading the last supper in terms of -
'And Jesus said, "pass that glass over, I'm dying of thirst here, and where's the sliced loaf? Gisse it here, i'll hand it round, fellahs...."
So take, breathe in and accept that which enables you to see the truth face to face. The rest, calmly leave aside as not for you.
Hope you're ok with this.
Thank you for dealing with my panic with respect and gentleness. And thank you for that second link. It really helped and will continue to do so. I had been thinking that these states of mind we get ourselves into were "realms", so to speak, because I can truly understand them that way and it's always much easier to face the fear that's standing in front of you than the one that's lurking in the unknown future.
So, I am truly O.K. with this, Fede. And thanks. I'm feeling soooo much better. And I'm glad I had the opportunity to do a little work with the panic while it was here. It's almost all gone now and I'm heaving nice, deep sighs of delicious relief.
Love,
Brigid
But still... Would I still like to be born proud? :rockon:
You can take pride in your work, or your appearance...you can be proud of yourself without being boastful....
In French, (and this applies to other European latin-based languages) Pride can be translated as
'Orgueil' or as 'Fierté'.
The first denotes an egotistic pride, the second a more noble one... But it also depends on context.
As with all things, Pride can be good bad or neutral. The danger is in the attachment - in how much it drives US as opposed to how much and in what way we manifest it, and pay it any degree of excessive attention. If we cling to it, then it becomes an unskillful action....
We have spoken about other potentially explosive emotions before, (like Anger)... The trick is to see them for the impostors they are, and for the dangers thay pose with regard to being obstacles in our way along the Path.
I agree. Nothing is predetermined. But some things are inevitable. The tendencies that we build up since beginningless time create a certain kind of mind, and then the Path is determined by the particular way in which that particular mind can be unwound.
But it's an undoing of ignorance, not a constructive process, and so it is not determined. When the house (of ignorance) is finally broken, there is no law of absolute sequenced events that describes how it will break or where the pieces will wind up.
But someone who has experienced the breaking of his own house can walk into one that is about to break, and tell you which tool to use to make the whole thing come down right now, and they do. All the time.
Oh, and hey, I almost forgot to mention. The question that Buddhafoot asked is a typical symptom of a mind that will be solved by the Buddhist Path.
I know it's going back to the first page, but good point! At least we don't live in a caste system :usflag: :ukflag:
Indeed! We actually live in a cast-out system.
whilst we live in a society rife with prejudice and seggregation, no matter who the victim or why, then we live in a "caste" system. Or as Simon so eloquently puts it, 'cast-out'.
It's a long way home.