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Evangical Christians - what to do?
I have a friend i knew 30 years ago, when i was a Christian and went to their house church, that showed up the other day. She said she had drove by so many times and wanted to stop to say hi, but never did. She is getting on in years as i am, so i guess this was the last ditch effort to "save" me. She welcomes me very warmly and then not long after said she had a book she wanted me to read. It is called "The Shack". It is a new interpretation on the dogma that surrounds the christian religion, and is a work of fiction, that makes many people very happy to know and love god. Others think the book is heresy because it doesn't follow the Bible very closely in regards to a lot of believed principles. So anyway i read it. And it makes a big point that the guy who is doubting his faith in god does so because he has rejected how much God loves him, and if he only believed he would see and be engulfed in Gods love and know him/her/the trinity in an intimate way (again). My friend knows i am Buddhist and have been for the past 23 years, so i guess she really cares about my soul, which i do not believe in, and also my eternal resting place.... She asked me to get back to her in what i think about the book, which has caused a few ripples in my practice, because i don't want to be too harsh and yet i want to be truthful, so another dilemma has entered my life. Not a huge one, but this comes up for all of us occasionally....just wondering how some of you respond to the good intentions , though a little aggressive, approach to questioning your practice....?
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If the truth is that she intends on helping you achieve her version of peace, then it need not be harsh. I have a few friends who are strong God-fearing folk and when they attempt to press ideologies of theirs, I embrace them, look for the joys that underpin the ideas, and simply relate to those. The dogma and so forth might not be good to attack, which sounds like a trapping of defensive aggression... at least it always was for me.
If the only truth you have found is harsh, then perhaps there is some re-looking that could be done to unlock a more appropriate perception?
With warmth,
Matt
How has it effected your practice? Have you begun to question Buddhism?
I get faced with the same sort of choices quite often. I've learnt that the best way to deal with it is to show how resolute I am in my practice and beliefs as a Buddhist. It usually kills any kind evangelism, but it can also leave the recepient slightly shocked.
Nios.
Faced with the same sort of dilemma at the moment myself with my sister, who, in her seventies, is becoming more RC than Ratzinger, I have found that skillful communication requires reflection first.
Whatever my initial negative reaction, if any, I move back to what we agree on: we are siblings and, in our own way, love each other. She is my only surviving sister and I would hate to cause her more hurt. I recognise her good intentions and make sure that I tell her so. I hold this in mind throughout so that even our disagreements are simply accepted. We may come back to them another time but, for now, we understand how each of us supports the other.
When I used to be visited by LDS missionaries, I would invite them in and would listen to them. When asked, I would tell them something of my own practice, even some of my beliefs. As I already had The Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price on my bookshelves (and had read them), I did not need to exchange gifts (I give a book for a book). There would come a time when they wanted to pray. I would then tell them that my own practice was different but, if they wanted to use some time in my room for their own practice, I would accompany them with mine. On one occasion, the missionaries agreed and we set a 15 minute timer. I sat; they alternated between silent and spoken intercessory prayer until, finally, we just sat together. I doubt I changed their mindsets and really don't care. We met as potential friends and parted as real ones. The world, in one small corner, was a little better.
On a different note about Mormon missionaries, I have a quite different story. When I used to live in Beaufort, SC, there were these two people, husband and wife, who were both active in the Episcopal Church there. Everyone who knew them knew they could no longer stand each other.
Well, the wife, Chloe, one day graciously received two Mormon missionaries into her home and was really quite charmed by them. Some time into the visit when Chloe might outwardly have seemed about ready to be converted, the subject of marriage between a man and his wife being continued into eternity came up. When she discovered that the Mormons taught that God's plan included such an onerous thing as that, she suddenly lost any sense of hospitality and ordered the boys to "get out."
She was quite a feisty character who was unafraid to let people know what she thought. Her husband was a cabinet-maker and a very devout churchman who was a dignified layreader. I am proud to have one of his pieces. Of course, you'd have to have known the couple to derive the full humor from it. It's funny also, because when you see these nice young men bicycling around communities looking so respectable, it would never occur to you that anyone would ever confront them, especially a lady like Chloe.
Dennis,
I do not consider myself a non-Christian, especially as my Guru indicated that my Christian background is part of my dharma. However, I too, am not comfortable with the presumptions of the evangelical Christians.
For my part, I simply relate to them that "that's not my style" (wearing stuff on the borders of my garments, as it were, phylacteries). If they insisted on pressing me, I'd tell them I'm a traditionalist and that my beliefs go back centuries.
I agree with you, though, that silence may be the best. (Although leaving it at "That's not me" might make that easier.) It truly is better to say nothing than to say things that might give offense. Life is too short to turn off the channels of communication that lead to understanding and friendship.
Then I would smile, place the fingertips of one hand lightly on her forearm or shoulder and say softly, "Bless your heart".
Repeat as necessary. No argument needed. No excuses needed. Call of the bathroom optional.
It's only fair, after all. Anyone who tries to convert you should at least understand what beliefs you already have. Many people don't understand squat about Buddhism... not really.
I tend to agree with this. I wont pretend to believe things I do not, but I will try to appreciate the spiritual experiences of others, and may even use religious language that I do not think in.
I remember when I lost my faith in God, I told everyone of my religious friends what happened, trying to be open and honest about my spiritual journey, and now I have very few religious friends. People who were mother and/or father figures to me, simply stopped returning my phone calls and letters. People give their entire lives to this form of "holiness" or whatever, and they do not respond well when someone else falls away or does not see what seems so obvious to them. To the extent to which life is short and I do not wish to cut loved ones off from my life, I try to be as outwardly(and inwardly) graceful as possible.
With warmth,
Matt
I agree if i have motives to convince her of Buddhist practice, i become that which i do not agree with...she never asked me about my practice. If i say i do not entertain "belief" in a "God", it will just disappoint her. Which might not be the most tactful communication, but it would be the truth, and stop her from trying to convert me, "back to the fold". So, i am still waiting until i can reply without motive. Probably this waiting is not the most skillful approach, but it is the way it is, and it is that way with many other of my decisions.... just human and doing my best, like most people i know. I did lend the book to a friend who has a strong Christian background. I hope to discuss it with her. Maybe someone will look up some reviews of this book "The Shack", and maybe use the word "apologetic" in one of the searches. What you will find is a huge gulf between those who love it because it enhances their faith in God, and those who see it as heretical. That seems to be the problem for me. There is very little middle ground. What is there to discuss other than this.
You might like to look for a book called The Ground We Share (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ground-We-Share-Everyday-Christian/dp/1570622191/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271906761&sr=8-1) or The Raft Is Not The Shore (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raft-Not-Shore-Conversations-Buddhist-Christian/dp/157075344X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271906834&sr=8-1)
Also, consider that maybe she has feelings of guilt over the previous rejection of you as a friend (if I am understanding things right) and is reaching out in an effort of reconciliation.
I have recently moved to a new area and one friend I made is a devote Christian. It has helped her life in ways that are truly amazing and I am so glad that she found something that helps her.
Well, one day this friend invited me to a bible study and I told her that I would go. I liked what I heard the first time and started to look at Christianity as a potential path. Like everything I do in life I dived right in because I didn't know that much about Christianity. I wanted to learn and live the path.
Well, one thing that I have learned from Buddhism is to ask questions and not follow anything blindly.
This didn't go over too well because fast-forward to two months later I found too many things that I didn't agree with and the only answer I got about hard questions about God and the Bible was "The devil can counterfeit anything God does" or "You are thinking like that because you have evil spirits attached to you".
I made a decision and after two conversations, that lasted over an hour and a half each, with a pastor about all my doubts dealing with Christianity and asking question I left the Christian fold.
It was easy to get in but it isn't easy to get away. I am still receiving phone calls about my decision and feel like I'm being pressured to go back. My friends that I had while I was considered a Christian want nothing to do with me unless it is coming to bible study or church.
*sigh*
I've tried to explain to them about my beliefs and at this point want to be left alone. I don't want to be forceful but being blunt with them doesn't seem to be working.
I've read some good ideas here that I'm going to try but if you have any other advice it would be great to hear.
Thanks!
I think Christian evangelism is just incredibly arrogant and condescending. They believe they have a truth that others don't, they have contact with the most powerful being in the Universe, and they have the tools to help the poor, helpless soul that is destined to go to Hell if they don't accept their Savior.
While we all feel we have the truth, my attitude towards others with other philosophies is like Nietzsche's attitude towards Plato. He probably respects him as a great philosopher, but simply disagrees with his philosophical treatises. This is generally not the case with religious people.
.
Hi Trans -
I agree it can be both arrogant and condescending. However at one time I was a conservative catholic. I wasn't evangelical, I'm a little bit more diplomatic than that, but I would share my views openly and hope people would see the "error of their ways" - not for my own gain, but I truly feared for their soul. If you're brought up with a real belief in hell it is a terrible thing.
I also think that there is a true emptiness in most Americans, as we have come to see the emptiness of consumerism and the reality of debt. I think people become evangelical out of fear and a need for things to have a reason to be or to occur. Inside, that evangelical is a very frightened individual and anyone who doesn't agree with them shakes their world-view and to a large extent, shakes their grip on reality.
In my mind most evangelicals are in need of pity, not contempt.
Best,
Tony
If it was me I would try to describe my practice as best I could, and try to make comparisons or parallels to their religion in a way they could understand.
If their proselytizing is coming from a place of love and concern, then I would try to be understanding of their religious views and share my own with them. If they are just ranting and raving without any interest in hearing my opinion, then I've found it's best not to argue. You can just say, "That's your belief and I respect that." Wanting to have a dialogue that's one thing, but it's completely different if they just want to convert you without any interest in what you think.
I always would very politely decline and, being that we were in a work setting, I didn't feel it appropriate to go into my religious beliefs. Although, she was by inviting me to her church but eh.
Anyways, she was super nice, but she wanted absolutely nothing to do with me unless I went to her church. We'd discussed going out for lunch once or twice, but always the invitations were to her church.
And she was just the nicest girl. I've never met anyone as sincerely nice as she was. But for some reason when I declined her invitations to church, I always felt like she was looking down upon me because I didn't believe in her religion, if that makes any sense.
Phew, I just needed to get that off my chest. I never told anyone before lol.
How sad this is. In my opinion, love within the family and tolerance of different opinions and life choices comes before any sort of dogmatism.
It is worth noticing that this sort of intolerance goes on where children and parents hold opposing political views or sexual orientations too - it is far from being the sole domain of religious persuasion.
I rejoice in their compassion that they wish to save another sentient beings soul, i wish them good luck everytime i see them.
Did you ever consider going? I don't mean going with any intent to convert or anything like that, but just going to listen to a sermon? I'm just curious - I don't have any ulterior motive in asking.
Yes its always nice to make new friends
But i work sundays so its very difficult for me. I have my meditations to do and my evening class to atend so its not most convenient for me.
That makes sense. I was just being nosy :buck:
They were two young enthusiastic Korean students on their mission (which I totally understand as my late uncle was a Bishop in the LDS church) and asked me the usual questions. When I politely smiled and told them I was a Buddhist, the young girl looked crestfallen and said "But WHY???" I was very taken aback and without even thinking properly replied "Because I was raised a Catholic and don't agree with a lot of Christian practises" The young man started screaming at me and shaking my security door "You're going to go to hell, what about your daughter?" I was SO shocked I just said "Have a nice day and enjoy Australia" and closed the door. I was really intimidated. My husband had finished having a shower and was trying to throw clothes on because he had no idea what was going on.
I have a small Buddha sticker on my car and the guy saw it when he left and kicked the tyre on my car. I didn't tell my husband about that.
It makes me sad because most Christians I know do not act like that, but these fundies get all the "airplay".
In metta.
Raven
Many of my Evangelical friends assume that I am also a Christian. No one has ever asked me straight out if I want to be "saved" but I have had them ask how is my relationship with Jesus. I tell them the truth. My relationship with Jesus is fine- I'm at peace with Jesus. And that's true. I think Jesus was a cool fellow and I don't have any problems with him and I doubt he'd have any problems with me. And I leave it at that. I don't see how it would do any good for me to tell them that I'm not a Christian.
So what I do is I ask them a lot of questions about their faith and get them talking about it. I think it might help them with reflection. I'm interested in literature and I know something of the Biblical stories, so I like to get them talking about it. Usually I learn something that I didn't know and either way it gives me insight into their thinking. Hopefully getting them to think about these stories on a deeper level too (beyond just doctrine) will help them to not be fundamentalists. But in the end, I'm more concerned about the personal relationship with a friend.
And I vote against them when they try to apply their beliefs to my life.