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young mother wants to die?
Irris
Explorer
I have a friend (in her early 20s) who had a little boy a couple years ago. Over the last year or so her mild depression has increased 10 fold. Every day her posts on facebook are very sad, sometimes even suicidal.
If she doesn't want to live for herself, she should live and smile and at least TRY for her son.
She lives with chronic pain (I think it's arthritis, among other things) and can't move around much.
I care for her deeply, I've known her for over 10 years and we've sortof grown up together as online friends. I think having a child is a beautiful thing and the fact that she yells at her son because of her pain, or doesn't play with him outside, ugh. It just bothers me. It bothers her too, but she thinks she can't stop it. She doesn't seem to see that she is in control, or that she has any power to change it.
She says no amount of pain medication helps her. She says when she's happy she smiles for a second and then cries for an hour. She misses doing fun things, but that yearning just seems to dig her deeper and deeper into that pit. She is the ultimate example of 'Suffering' in my life.
She doesn't want to go to a counselor, but she is open to talking to me about things. I've finally had enough of making semi-casual comments to cheer her up (which never works) - I want to roll my sleeves up now and try helping her for real.
Has anyone had experiences like this (either yourself or a friend)? Are there teachings or texts that could aid me in this? I know I shouldn't treat her like a project, but I feel like no one else is really trying to help her for real. And it breaks my heart to see her (and her baby boy) living such an emotionally volatile, sedentary, dark, indoor life.
Is it judgmental of me to want her to live better? Is it wrong of me to want to step in and do something of consequence? I've experienced depression too, so I can sortof relate... But I was a teenager and it was a phase where I had to figure things out and move on. For her it seems to be much deeper and she is much more stubbornly attached to her pain and sadness.
If she doesn't want to live for herself, she should live and smile and at least TRY for her son.
She lives with chronic pain (I think it's arthritis, among other things) and can't move around much.
I care for her deeply, I've known her for over 10 years and we've sortof grown up together as online friends. I think having a child is a beautiful thing and the fact that she yells at her son because of her pain, or doesn't play with him outside, ugh. It just bothers me. It bothers her too, but she thinks she can't stop it. She doesn't seem to see that she is in control, or that she has any power to change it.
She says no amount of pain medication helps her. She says when she's happy she smiles for a second and then cries for an hour. She misses doing fun things, but that yearning just seems to dig her deeper and deeper into that pit. She is the ultimate example of 'Suffering' in my life.
She doesn't want to go to a counselor, but she is open to talking to me about things. I've finally had enough of making semi-casual comments to cheer her up (which never works) - I want to roll my sleeves up now and try helping her for real.
Has anyone had experiences like this (either yourself or a friend)? Are there teachings or texts that could aid me in this? I know I shouldn't treat her like a project, but I feel like no one else is really trying to help her for real. And it breaks my heart to see her (and her baby boy) living such an emotionally volatile, sedentary, dark, indoor life.
Is it judgmental of me to want her to live better? Is it wrong of me to want to step in and do something of consequence? I've experienced depression too, so I can sortof relate... But I was a teenager and it was a phase where I had to figure things out and move on. For her it seems to be much deeper and she is much more stubbornly attached to her pain and sadness.
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Nios.
I was angry because "she should have known better" because she did this, and left two wonderful kids behind, one of them who she had just "dropped" off for his first year at Harvard, which was a great success for her as a mother having raised him by herself.
It took me a long time to stop blaming her, and being angry until I realized that she suffered very much and that she really did saw this as her only way out. Even at the expense of leaving her kids behind, and being highly educated and a health professional, she just could not take the pain of her own suffering anymore.
The best think you can do for your friend is to simply be there for her, to listen and accept along with her pain and suffering.
Maybe by you giving her unconditional love and acceptance she won't feel so alone, and so helpless. If not, then at least you can make her life here on earth a bit more positive and bearable.
For me, my sister's legacy aside from her two wonderful kids, is the reminder of suffering. I have a small picture frame of her when she was little maybe 6 or 7 that she made with the quote "I have spent years trying to make emotionally unavailable people emotionally present for me". Even though she had a big family all around her, and even though I tried since I was a teenager to always be there for her, and to offer my friendship and companionship, she felt all alone in the world, and felt distant from those around her (as her quote points out). In the end it was her who suffered so much that she could not accept the emotion and love that we all tried to extend to her. In the end it was her suffering that she could not cope with.
I now have that picture on my shrine to remind me of the true suffering that we go through in life even when in reality it does not have to be that way.
I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for her. Hang in there and be strong for her.
Ivan
The depictions you offer sound a lot like biological depression. Its possible that she could snap out of it with some right view and meditation practice, but it might take more of a direct intervention within her body to get her unstuck.
St. Johns Wart is an herbal supplement I suggest you look into, it is often taken when people have mild depression and it perks up the chemicals in the brain. I really think that a therapist would be the best case, as online help can be too distant to uproot old patterns of self-destructive mind. Her brain could very well filter out all of the things you offer, or consider your friendship 'over' if it gets too diag-nosey.
There is also an amazing book by Pema Chodron called When Things Fall Apart that could be a great resource for both of you. If she seems up for reading a book, this one could be very helpful.
Make sure that you walk carefully if you're trying to help her. Asking her if she'd be open to any of your advice might make it much more likely that she'll take it. Throwing it out there in the wrong context might just add to the difficulty of her journey, as it becomes another "thing" she has to deal with.
Good luck. I think your heart is brave for considering and wishing to help her.
With warmth,
Matt
It got to a point where i would not go outside anymore...
And I was seriously considering suicide.
At one point I made my decision, my reasoning was if i'm not going to find happiness in my life (i was hopeless), at least i will work hard and make money that i will give to my family to help them be happy.
This was not out of wisdom but out of last resort...
But this decision drastically changed my whole life.
Out of pure luck, I starting ignoring my self (ego).
My own pain/thoughts became secondary.
After 2 years maybe, depression was gone.
5-6 years of this, I began to find moments of pure peace and bliss.
A few years ago, i started to learn about Buddhism and realized that what i actually did was to learn to observe my ego/thoughts/cravings without reacting to them.
And as you know, when you begin to do this you begin to see and understand how things really work, and the suffering dissipate.
Today I'm the happiest person i know.
My emotions are very stable, there is never any anger or down periods or negativity... even thought my situations and relationships in the last 6 years did put me in a place where it would have been very easy for me to lose my tempers or get sad and pity myself so many times (wife living with depression, giant ups and downs) even in the most intense situations i can hardly imagine how could i ever get angry.
I don't know if my story can help, perhaps reading the story of those who had similar experiences and had a very happy ending might be motivation for her to begin to study the dharma and practice meditation.
I am sorry to hear about your friend. I would first take any suggestions of suicide as very real. In the course of my profession I have seen many completed suicide attempts and it's often with things people didn't consider like tylenol (it will eat your liver in high doses) and aspirin (severe acidosis and organ failure) I think a very basic first step for her would be to see a Dr and get a prescription for an anti-depressent. Lexapro 10 mg once a day is easy to take and has minimal side effects. This will over a short period of time help to elevate her mood and get her to a point that she can start considreing things that will help her make life long changes. I believe being mindful is the best antidote to depression. Patbb is a good example in the life story he relates. There are many reasons we stay and repond to to things with depression. It's like a well used rut in our brain. Our brain remembers a similar past event and again attempts to cope with it in the same fashion. If our past way of dealing with certain issues is to withdrawl and become depressed. we will do it again and again and again. Also the inherent way we deal with problems is to ruminate over them in an effort to breakdown and understand our condition. So in effect we constantly go over and over this negative aspect of ourselves. It just worsens and drives the depression deeper. An extremely good audio book (I would HIGHLY recommend this to your friend) is The Mindful Way through Depression. (I know Dharmacraft sells this) One of the main authors is Kabat-Zinn. The ideas here are rooted in Buddhist philosophy and good psychology but one not need to be a Buddhist to benefit from it. In fact you wouldn't know some of the principles are Buddhist unless you were Buddhist. I have had a bad history with depression and a father who committed suicide and believe me when I say she not only needs to do the first step to initially bring up her mood (simple medication) she needs to take this further and shift her perspective. Doing these things will have a profound change for her. I wish her the best and thank you for your love and compassion towards her.
Yours in the Dharma,
Todd
I'm so sorry that your friend is in so much pain and that you suffer as well as a result. I understand your need to intervene in her life, especially because she has a child in her care.
It sounds to me like she is not capable right now of caring for herself let alone her child. It also sounds very much like she is suffering from postpartum depression.
In my humble opinion, seeing as she is suicidal and crying out for help, she needs to see a professional in postpartum depression as soon as possible. Suicidal ideation needs to be taken very, very seriously. Doubly so when the individual is caring for a child.
I honestly don't know if small efforts are going to be of any help to her at this point and I don't know if she'll listen to your advice but you can certainly try to advise her to get in touch with a professional. Cheering her up, as you've already found out, is not going to help her. You could also make it easier for her to reach out for help by looking up resources in her area like suicide prevention phone lines and so on.
It's a very difficult and delicate situation you're in and I can appreciate your suffering. I hope your friend gets help and I hope your suffering lessens.
I'm going to get that book for her, and I've been telling her a bit about meditation. She is open minded (doesn't think it's silly) but she still thinks she won't be able to do it. I wish I could be down in AZ with her... even if to just babysit so she could find some peace. Of course the child is becoming a bit of a little monster, without much outdoor exercise/activity!
It's cute, and funny to hear the stories, but I can only imagine his point of view down the road. "My mother never got off the couch... that's why I have this skewed perspective of women..." etcetera.
This whole situation has shown me how much I feel we're all here to GIVE to those around us. One of you said she needs to accept the love she's being shown, and I think that's just it... she needs to realize she deserves help and healing.
It's amazing how the brain can convince the body to heal or not heal. Negative thoughts are so dangerous.
Again, I'm so grateful to you guys for taking the time to respond with such warmth. I was unsure about this path (and this forum) until now. Thank you for sharing your experiences... and my heart goes out to those who've lost loved ones to extreme depression.
I'll update if/when anything of note happens with this.