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In Search of Information/Guidance

edited May 2010 in Meditation
I've gone through the meditation forums and looked through the beginners threads but it's almost made me more lost than before.

I'm not Buddhist, nor do I know if I will be or not. I just know that meditation is something I know will be beneficial to me and it's something I want to pursue wholeheartedly. I don't discount any spiritual aspect. I just don't know what sort of spirituality mine would be considered. I'm not quite sure what it is. This is why I say I'm not buddhist, or any other religion.

I just don't know where to begin. I've seen hundreds of books/resources recommended and they all seem to have different techniques/methods. I just have no idea where to go... I'm baffled. I've begun doing some simple breathing meditation until I find a more definite path. I don't know where I want to go with meditation either. Does anyone have any advice? I know that I am not entirely clear but that's because I feel that way.

Comments

  • ValtielValtiel Veteran
    edited May 2010
    I just don't know where to begin. I've seen hundreds of books/resources recommended and they all seem to have different techniques/methods. I just have no idea where to go... I'm baffled.

    It depends. Why do you feel meditation will be beneficial to you? Are you looking to practice meditation as the Buddha taught and for the purpose of freeing yourself from dukkha, or are you looking simply to relax?

    If you're looking for the latter, then Google/Youtube some guided relaxation meditations and do whatever you're drawn to.

    If you're looking to practice Buddhist meditation, then it's important to understand the purpose of it all. For that I would begin by reading this. This link will take you to the actual sutta (Buddhist scripture) describing how to go about meditation. The best teaching of this sutta, a guide to anapanasati and vipassana, in my opinion, can be found here.
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited May 2010
    The role of meditation in Buddhism is twofold: (1) give the mind an anchor in order to become aware of how the mind works and (2) transform the mind's habitual tendencies by cultivating attitudes (tranquility, loving-kindness, compassion, etc.) that will lead to the end of unnecessary suffering. Pretty much all meditation practices fall under these two categories. Mindfulness of the breath, for example, falls into the first category. Metta (loving-kindness) meditation, for example, falls under the second category.

    As for where to begin, in the words of Pema Chodron, "start where you are." You mention that you aren't sure you want to practice Buddhism. This indicates to me that a general book on Buddhist meditation may not be the best route right now. But you also mention that you know that meditation will be beneficial to you. Why do you think so? Is there a specific type/pattern of suffering you are experiencing that has led you to turn to meditation? Perhaps it's depression, anxiety, trauma, general stress, grief, chronic pain, etc. Perhaps choose a book that is topical to your specific situation. If it's depression or anxiety, try The Mindful Way through Depression, if it's trauma or grief or shame/low self-hatred, try The mindful Path to Self-Compassion or Radical Acceptance. If it's stress or chronic pain, try Full Catastrophe Living.

    Just for your own reference, however, it's probably a good idea to have some familiarity with the original teachings of the Buddha on meditation. The Anapanasati Sutta and the Satipatthana Sutta are where most of us on this forum are getting our framework for meditation as it pertains to theBuddhist lifepath.

    It may also help to remember that you aren't meant to "go anywhere" with meditation; meditation is meant to bring you back home, to a better and less antagonistic relationship with the present moment. That is why it can be so healing in ways that other methods aren't. We spend so much of our time running away from our past or trying to fend off the future that we miss the life that's happening right here and now.

    Best of luck to you!
  • edited May 2010
    As to why I think it will be beneficial: There is no ailment that plagues me mentally, or physically. In fact, I'm very fortunate in the regard that I live a generally stable life. My outlook on life is generally different than that of the majority of society. I just see everyone wasting away their lives not questioning anything they do, wrapped up in all these worldly exploits. I've never wanted to live like that. I basically study philosophy and partake in various arts. I saw meditation not only for its tangible benefits, but as a way to learn more of myself and the world. I was hoping to find my own spiritual aspect. I don't know if I am explaining right; it's something I have a hard time to explain. I'm not looking at meditation just as a form of relaxation. If I have relaxation that will be fine, but it is not why I am pursuing this.

    I don't see a point in classifying my meditation under any certain religion. Whether it be Buddhism, Hinduism, Yogic, or even Catholic... I don't see how I could ever place myself in a belief set. I am who I am. I saw meditation as a way to find my own way, my own knowledge.

    I know I'm not supposed to "go anywhere" with meditation. That's not the context in which I was talking. I was talking about techniques/types of meditation to practice.
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Well, in the words of my improv professer, "just dive in." You'll have a better perspective on what meditation has to offer you from the inside. Dive in and read a few different books, watch a few different videos/listen to a few different talks, and most importantly, try a few different methods. Meditation is like sports or cooking; it's experiential. It's hard to say where you should go from here if you haven't had much experience to judge on yet. A good place to start is Mindfulness in Plain English (available free online). It gives you a good overview of the different kinds of meditation practiced in Buddhism.

    (And I specify "in Buddhism" simply because meditation, like "sports", is a broad category. It entails different methods, goals and roles in other contexts, such as Sufism or Christianity. I don't know too much about Christian or Sufi meditation, however.)
  • edited May 2010
    It seems like there are so many differents forms of meditation. I've been reading Mindfulness in Plain English which focuses on Vipassana meditation. What type of meditation do most of the people on the forum focus on? How do I know which meditation is right for me when there are so many? Do people often do many different forms of meditation at the same time? Can I meditate too much? I go into a meditation where I count my breaths and it is almost as if I never want to leave.
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Hi PivotalSyntax. In my experience, I've actually never found one form of meditation that was the best for me. They all have something to offer. So long as you haven't committed yourself to a certain tradition (Zen, Theravada, Vajrayana, Sufism, Gnosticism, etc.), you don't actually need to choose one specific type of meditation to focus on. I actually do a variety from several different types of meditation, although I settled on mindfulness of breathing and loving-kindness/compassion meditation because I found those the most beneficial. You'll also find that, although every tradition and every teacher within those traditions have slightly different methods/emphases/preferences, they generally achieve the same goals in the end: a deeper presence in the moment, greater kindness and compassion, greater insight.

    I think you can meditate for as long as you want to (on retreats, advanced practitioners meditate for hours at a time), so long as you do not get sidelined from your everyday responsibilities at work, home and the normal necessities of eating/sleeping/washing/exercising. Generally, anywhere between a half an hour to an hour is sufficient.
  • TreeLuvr87TreeLuvr87 Veteran
    edited May 2010
    PivotalSyntax, please let me offer a small piece of advice. It seems to me that you might be overthinking this. You're all in your head. For me, meditation is a way to take myself OUT of my head (where I reside way too often) and into my intuition. For me, meditation was a way to discover my spirituality. And like you, it falls nowhere under a clear-cut religion or other organization. For me, my spirituality is just that - getting in touch with what I believe is my Spirit, and what I believe connects me to a Life Spirit. I believe that we all have the ability to tap into a collective consciousness, the lessons learned by all before us and all that are living now. Humans, plants, all of it. Only, it took me a long time to realize that I can't do that with my brain, my thinking, my head! It's all within me already, and I can only access it by paying attention to and nurturing my Spirit, my intuition.

    If this sounds like anything similar to what you are experiencing or want to experience, I suggest something along the lines of the meditation I turn to most. Like Glow, I do different meditations all the time, and the only way I can really determine what I need at the time is to try to shut my brain off so I can hear what my intuition is screaming at me! This meditation is one I return to regularly in order to remain in touch with my intuition, my true Self:

    I begin by counting breaths, relax my body with each breath, then focus on trying as hard as I can to imagine my mind as a clear, calm lake. This is difficult but I keep pushing. Keep in mind that making anything seem natural or a habit can take over a month.

    Once I feel truly at rest, focusing on my clear, calm lake and allowing all other thoughts to breeze through the air over the surface of that lake and quickly off into the distance, I am ready to go deep inward. Most of what I visualize while I meditate just came to me; I've never found much in books that really worked for me.

    I imagine that everything I display outwardly is a huge flower, usually a lily, coming out of my throat and projecting onto everything around me. I focus on closing that flower up and then imagining it sinking inward. This is a silly comparison, but if you've ever seen The Little Mermaid, I picture it as the same glowing thing as Ariel's voice when she gets it back from the witch - I see it going down my throat, through my lungs, and into my solar plexus, where I feel my gut feelings. This is where my intuition resides.

    I've experienced many images of a visual representation of my intuition, all come to me with no explanation and many don't make sense as far as the brain goes, but I accept them nonetheless. Usually, my intuition takes the form of the Queen of Wands from the Napo Tarot deck, probably because I've always associated that card with a woman of deep intuitive wisdom. Once I can picture my intuition, I picture it at work in my body. I picture that with each inhalation, I am absorbing a ton of life energy, and it fills the Queen's wand with a strong glowing energy. With each exhale, there's a little conveyor belt with scrapers that moves along, first scraping out the old, negative, overanalyzing gunk from inside me to make more room, and then around to scoop up the energy from the wand and send it to all my extremities, until eventually I am glowing all over, filled with life's intuitive energy.

    Hope this one personal experience helps :-) peace be with you on your journey, whatever you find!
  • edited May 2010
    So now that I've read a good portion of Mindfulness In Plain English and about Vipassana, I'm going to pose some of my questions here, even though I messaged Glow with a few. I figure diversity is a good thing.

    Regarding the technique of Vipassana, I am assuredly confused because the author is sometimes not very clear. He talks about watching the breath, counting, etc. and he also mentions acknowledging thoughts that come to you. Seeing them, but not actually thinking them. But when he gets into the actual Vipassana technique all the emphasis is on seeing the present-moment of the breathing. To completely be in the present. He makes no mention about thoughts/feelings appearing. I think I just need a basic summary of the technique instead of this mish-mash of information. It is very good and helpful information, but it's unclear.

    He also mentions sign-objects, and through concentration on breathing a sign-object should appear to you, or something along those lines. He is very unclear about that and I'm not exactly sure 100% what the sign-object is or whether it is necessary for the meditation.

    My final question for tonight is, can one effectively learn from a book? I can't sign up for a retreat for at least a while, so this is the best I can do for now, and I'm hoping this can take me a long ways.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    So now that I've read a good portion of Mindfulness In Plain English and about Vipassana, I'm going to pose some of my questions here, even though I messaged Glow with a few. I figure diversity is a good thing.

    Regarding the technique of Vipassana, I am assuredly confused because the author is sometimes not very clear. He talks about watching the breath, counting, etc. and he also mentions acknowledging thoughts that come to you. Seeing them, but not actually thinking them. But when he gets into the actual Vipassana technique all the emphasis is on seeing the present-moment of the breathing. To completely be in the present. He makes no mention about thoughts/feelings appearing. I think I just need a basic summary of the technique instead of this mish-mash of information. It is very good and helpful information, but it's unclear.

    He also mentions sign-objects, and through concentration on breathing a sign-object should appear to you, or something along those lines. He is very unclear about that and I'm not exactly sure 100% what the sign-object is or whether it is necessary for the meditation.

    My final question for tonight is, can one effectively learn from a book? I can't sign up for a retreat for at least a while, so this is the best I can do for now, and I'm hoping this can take me a long ways.
    When i first began meditation, Mindfulness in plain english was the first book i've read.

    after a few months, i took a meditation retreat (http://www.dhamma.org/) where they teach you the Vipassana technique very thoroughly.

    For some reason, looking back after the retreat, I realized that i misunderstand the instructions in "Mindfulness in plain english", so much so that i realized i would not have made much progress with meditation if I never took that meditation retreat.

    Everyone is different, perhaps you get it perfectly right just with this book, but from my experience I don't recommend it.

    It is not the same as Vipassana, but i've read the meditation instruction book by Ajahn Brahm recently
    http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators-Handbook/dp/0861712757
    and I believe it would be much better to introduce a solid foundation to beginners.
    Also, instead of jumping right to the breath as in Vipassana, he introduces preliminary steps that helps make the transition to deep meditation much smoother.
  • Regarding the technique of Vipassana, I am assuredly confused because the author is sometimes not very clear. He talks about watching the breath, counting, etc. and he also mentions acknowledging thoughts that come to you. Seeing them, but not actually thinking them. But when he gets into the actual Vipassana technique all the emphasis is on seeing the present-moment of the breathing. To completely be in the present. He makes no mention about thoughts/feelings appearing. I think I just need a basic summary of the technique instead of this mish-mash of information. It is very good and helpful information, but it's unclear.

    He also mentions sign-objects, and through concentration on breathing a sign-object should appear to you, or something along those lines. He is very unclear about that and I'm not exactly sure 100% what the sign-object is or whether it is necessary for the meditation.

    My final question for tonight is, can one effectively learn from a book? I can't sign up for a retreat for at least a while, so this is the best I can do for now, and I'm hoping this can take me a long ways.

    PivotalSyntax,

    One can gain a certain amount of knowledge from a book. This needs to be transformed into personal wisdom through practicing and experiencing these truths for oneself.

    You have asked for a simple technique to begin with. I would highly recommend Shamatha meditation as the Buddha taught it:

    1) Develop awareness of your whole-body-breathing. Relax and calm your body during your meditation. Feel the breath entering your lungs, feel the abdomen stretching out to accommodate this. "Train (yourself) to breathe in sensitive to the entire body and to breathe out sensitive to the entire body. Train (yourself) to breathe in calming the entire body and to breathe out calming the entire body."

    2) Let thoughts, feelings and emotions arise, be aware of them but do not engage of them. Let them be like waves that wash up the beach then roll back into the sea. If you find yourself caught up in thinking (and you will a lot to begin with) then when you realise this, return to awareness of whole-body-breathing, noting the deviation from practice without self criticism.

    3) By focussing on the body you send a powerful signal to the mind that everything is OK. This works to calm the mind, developing a natural but relaxed and yet awake concentration and leads to absorption in rapturous bliss as the mind naturally unwinds to it's fullest extent. This is called one-pointed mind or "Samadhi". It will take a bit of practice to get there.

    You may notice some differences to what you have read in Gunaratana's book. These are there for good reason:

    The Buddha did not teach to focus breathing on the nose. For westerners who are often "head heavy" in their general way of living - and to some extent disembodied because of our cultural preference and conditioning towards rationality - this can be a particular and significant problem. The focus around the nostrils comes from an out of context mistranslation from the Pali:

    From "Establishing Mindfulness by Patrick Kearney":
    This is emphasised in our passage when the meditator is described as “establishing her mindfulness directly,” using the adverb parimukham, from pari (“around,” “completely”) + mukha (“mouth,” “face,” “entrance”). In Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta (The establishments of mindfulness M10) and Ānāpānasati Sutta (Mindfulness through breathing M118) this expression comes just before instructions on using breathing as the object of mindfulness, and parimukham is often taken literally as establishing mindfulness “around (pari) the mouth (mukha)” — in other words, placing mindfulness at the point where air enters and leaves the body. But parimukham is an idiom, not to be read literally, and does not refer to where mindfulness is established (“around the face,” so following breathing at the nostrils or mouth), but qualifies the action of establishing.

    Here, parimukham should be read as something like “completely (pari) facing (mukha)” the object of experience, indicating the establishment of a “face-to-face” encounter with the object of experience. It conveys a firmness and directness in the engagement with experience, whatever it may be.
    This fits with the Abhidhamma understanding, where mindfulness appears as the state of confronting or being face-to-face with an object.
    From Access to Insight, The Buddha taught:
    There is the case where an aspirant -- having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building -- sits down cross-legged, holding the body erect and setting her awareness before her. Always aware, one breathes in; aware one breathes out aware.

    Breathing in long, one discerns that one is breathing in long; or breathing out long, one discerns that one is breathing out long. Or breathing in short, one discerns that one is breathing in short; or breathing out short, one discerns that one is breathing out short. One trains himself to breathe in sensitive to the entire body and to breathe out sensitive to the entire body. One trains herself to breathe in calming the entire body and to breathe out calming the entire body.
    So according to the Buddha the focus of meditation is the entire breathing experience in the body, not just around the nostrils. And the prime first goals are (i)awareness or sensitivity to the entire body and (ii) relaxation or calming of the body.

    Greater and greater insight arises as one perfects this technique and it is a fruit of Shamatha meditation, though no meditation can begin unless some level of insight is present of course.

    I hope something there is of benefit to you in unfolding the mysteries of your own being and the journey you are embarking upon.

    Warmly,

    In the Dhamma,

    Matthew
  • edited May 2010
    Well I don't necessarily want a simple technique to begin with. I just needed some clarification on the technique of Vipassana.

    One fear I have about learning Vippasana from a book is that what if I spent a year or two learning the techniques and sitting every day... and I go on a retreat and find I was doing it horribly wrong. I probably won't be able to attend a retreat until next summer so this is somewhat of a fear residing with in me.

    Thank you for all the wealth of information and help.
  • TreeLuvr87TreeLuvr87 Veteran
    edited May 2010
    PivotalSyntax, don't worry so much about if you'll be doing it wrong. At least you will have been practicing something and working towards the goals that you have. If it's horribly wrong, it will probably feel inherently wrong to you. Try to stop thinking so much and let that fear go. I can think of much more horrible risks that one could take, so allow yourself this risk. It's a positive one!
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/The_Basic_Method_of_Meditation_by_Ajahn_Brahmavamso

    here is the book from ajahn brahm that i was talking about.
    free.

    explained more clearly and efficiently than "Mindfulness in plain english".
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