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Pornography and mastubation
Just wondering what buddhism thinks of masturbation and pornography. I mean, we are all lay people, but at the same time we know that masturbation and pornography is not good for us, so what should we do as buddhists. I have to admit that I have done this, but I have been very confused since I don't think the venerables would have accepted this. So I would be very glad to have an answer on this difficult question.
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Porn on the other hand could be problematic. I find it highly unlikely that the majority of the "performers" are happy with their situation.
I find masturbation on the other hand could be problematic, but its an issue of dexterity not morality:p
Moving on....
I imagine that the "venerables" would see this activity as a waste of time, as with most other sensual indulgences, but there's nothing inherently evil or wrong with it either. I'm sure that the "venerables" would advise us to find pleasure in more worthwhile activities such as cultivating things like mindfulness, compassion, loving-kindness, etc., but let's be honest, masturbating is a completely natural act and, as long as we aren't hurting anyone else in the process, we shouldn't feel bad if we indulge in it once in a while.
Pornography does not represent the reality of what is required for happiness to exist and be maintained between people in general and between partners.
The Buddha taught real sustaining love is friendship & kindness.
Do we see friendship & kindness in pornography or behaviour that is often sadistic & centred on humiliation?
How many pornographic actors have we read about that have major drug addictions or commited suicide?
Pornography is a very strong beguilement. Little of lasting value can be found in it. Eventually, it just burns people out.
Kind regards
As for porn, nobody knows what the majority of performers think of their job. I've talked to ex-prostitutes, strippers, transexuals, and other people whose sexual behavior is considered perverse, and they felt that the biggest problem they faced was attitudes of other people. In dealing with people you don't know much about, the fall back position for a Buddhist is to recognize that they are humans much like yourself. Or as someone once pointed out to me in a discussion about porn performers, the Buddha taught kindness.
The only thing I'm going to say about looking at porn is that almost any response you have to it is going to be a fantasy. In some people these are fantasies that condemn and in others they are fantasies that indulge, but they are all fantasies. Anything involving sex seems to have this effect on people, and I've never met anyone who's immune.
by Winton Higgins[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Buddhist Sexual Ethics » A Rejoinder[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Religious traditions help us to find our basic orientations in many aspects of our lives. The most important aspect of our lives is how we interact with others. Among other things, this means religions often have a lot to say about sexual ethics. What sexual ethics does Buddhism promote? In this area our tradition speaks more quietly than others, which can leave newcomers wondering if it addresses the subject at all. In fact it speaks quite firmly. In opening up the subject I'll highlight those questions that bear on the issues raised by various liberation movements - by the women's movement, by gays and lesbians, and by the smaller sexual minorities. I don't think I could be too wide off the mark in saying that all these movements whatever else they are about, are engaging with various forms of prejudice, and with violence and violations based on those prejudices.
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2. Refraining from taking the non-given/practising generosity
3. Refraining from committing sexual misconduct/practising contentment
4. Refraining from false speech/practising truthful communication
5. Refraining from intoxicants/practising mindfulness.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the rest of the article is at......[/FONT]
http://www.buddhanet.net/winton_s.htm
Start from where you are. Any kind of addiction will take time to break (think how much time it has taken to build up the addiction), so be patient with yourself.
You could try the asubha meditations. If your mind begins to get negative you are probably doing too much asubha, balance it out with some Metta meditation.
With Metta,
Guy
That said, if you find yourself doing it too often (according to your OWN limits, not societies or anyone else's), constantly obsessing over it, craving it badly and not able of controlling your urge to do it, then it would be safe to say you need to re-assess the neutrality and purity of your intentions.
Masturbation and porn can become crippling addictions, just like any drug, and I've heard it's a really difficult addiction to overcome.
The upper limit to the amount your masturbate, should be set by your own standards, but a clear attachment to pleasure of the senses can be easily seen in people who overdo it and rely on it as their sole method of sexual satisfaction.
I agree that porn can be demeaning, violent and dehumanizing, but just like masturbation, as long as you use it wisely, it shouldn't become a huge hindrace in your path to a more wholesome life and spiritual clarity.
I would look first into why and how you have decided it is wrong, and go from there. Certainly there are lots of potential hooks when examining sexual actions.
With warmth (and washed hands),
Matt
This is very true. Our sexual side as humans is there no matter what we do to deny it and keep it at bay.
This seems like undue suffering over something you can't even control. I'd tell those priests to enjoy the dreams and stay chaste in their waking life. haha.
I'd tell them to practice meditation and to find happiness which is not dependent on the five senses.
That seems like much better advice. I was merely speaking from my heavily leaning mind.
What's improper about masturbation?
I think you're adding your own prejudices here. There is nothing improper about it at all.
It is an attachment, as with anything else, but there is nothing anywhere in Buddhist teachings that informs us it is improper.
Please whatever calling you purport to follow, don't start moralising and casting judgemental attitudes.
Not so much Buddhist or any religions advice but it is common sense that pornography is poison to your mental stability and peace. It is as destructive as drugs.
As DD said, look at what pornography promotes. Look at the reality and the corruption of the entire industry and how it is linked with suicide, drugs, discrimination, violence and criminality. If only brings you the type of pleasure that a scratching wound brings when you start scratching it. At the end of the day your overall mental health will be that of a fresh bleeding wound causing you suffeirng in all kinds of ways.
Masturbation and pornography is no different than any other attachment. When your understanding increases, you will put such things aside. Just... don't think it will be soon. Not until the third stage of enlightenment is all sexual desire extinguished. It's built-in to propagate the species. You could in this way say that full enlightenment is unnatural, as it removes this drive, but if it's your goal it's your goal. As it turns out, you may not have any choice in the matter.
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 10"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCOMPAQ%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:TargetScreenSize>1024x768</o:TargetScreenSize> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:none; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:EN-US; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->Regarding excessive sex (with partner) or masturbation, it is highly vata - pitta disturbing and depletes ojas more than any other human activity. Thich Nhat Hahn calls this moderation and control of sexual desire the “Third Mindfulness Training: Sexual Responsibility”
Those who ruin their bodies through masturbation—even if they don't engage in sexual misconduct with others - Master Hsuan Hua.
Prahlad Jani is under 24-hour observation at a hospital in Ahmedabad, India. He says he has fasted for 70 years, but his claim may be impossible to verify.
Jani is under 24-hour observation at the Sterling Hospital in Ahmedabad by scientists working with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), India's defense research agency, and other medical doctors. Jani is not eating or drinking anything during his hospital stay, while doctors monitor his condition.
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/afrikan-wholistic-health/42104-prahlad-jani-has-lived-70-years-without-eating-drinking.html
There is a canyon of difference between the trifling & rare sexual desire of the first & second stages of enlightenment and partaking in sexual actions.
Your are inferring beings in the first & second stages of enlightenment watch pornography and masturbate.
This thread is about harming & non-harming actions (karma). Pornography is something that can cause harm & addiction in some people.
The subject matter is not connected to enlightenment in any way, shape or form.
You forgot the 6th sense.
Ever wonder why there is almost universal agreement that the porn industry is considered exploitative and has a propensity to attract those with unskillful tendencies.
I think I agree with you and if someone could elaborate that would be great.
That is a bold claim. For some people, and some pornography, it is certainly true, but not for all.
Sure, masturbation is not diligent Dharma practice however you wrap it up. But nor is reading a novel, having friends round for dinner or playing beach volleyball.
The precepts (that, as been said, don't mention onanistic pursuits) are not judgements or rules but teachings about the reduction of suffering and the path to enlightenment.
namaste
Can one indulge in fantasies?
Even if they are not about the five senses they are not to be indulged in.
Actually that's a lot to ask. You get the picture though.
If there is something that you do because you want to, because it fulfills a desire, yet it does not lead anywhere (is repeated only for the sake of itself, to fulfill that desire)... consider that it is not a skillful act that will lead to wholesome results.
Almost everything that we do in this societal structure is based on self-centered desire. That which we do for entertainment is of the self. That which we do to satiate the senses... of foods we "prefer", shows, sex... is of the self. Indeed it is difficult to find anything that is not driven by this self, which through proper examination reveals itself as a false self; a Non-Self.
If we understand this Non-Self concept more fully, we can answer questions such as this one about porn/masturbation from that knowledge; it is all built upon the same foundation.
But I agree with whoever said that pornography is delusional. Most porn films do not depict real life situations or even real girls for that matter. I've dated almost ten different girls, and trust me, none of them resembled porn stars! Nor did any of them want to be treated like porn stars.
But seriously.... Awareness really takes the allure out of Spanking the monkey. Masturbation is a half-light thing.
Pornography makes me queazy, by how it portrays women as just dying to get men off, and also by what I have seen it evoke in me.
Try Google
Here are obvious ones:
1) Addiction
2) Pedophilia/rape/sexual harassment (It seems that most criminals who commit such offenses are porn addicts)
3) Drugs, alcoholism
4) Objectification and discrimination of the subjects of your fantasy
More subtle ones:
Do you really want an answer to this question?
I often come home to find that two burly delivery men are delivering my neigbour's new washing machine and one thing leads to another and.... OMG! YES!
:smilec:
As for masturbation,I am not sure that buddhism frowns upon it as such,unless you are a monk,in which case it is a no no.
I don't think the Buddha could have been against "fun" in itself, rather against the attachment to fun (or anything) because, as is shown, it is self-defeating in the end.
I love the fact the Dalai Lama is a fun guy, rather than some grumpy curmudgeon...
...for now...but by following through with the desire this time you are further conditioning yourself to be more prone to repeat the same act again and again in the future.
It is also possible, with mindfulness, for a desire to arise and to cease without acting on it.
Agreed.
Of course it's possible, nobody said it wasn't. But it damn sure ain't easy to accomplish.
"Buddhist sexual proscriptions ban homosexual activity and heterosexual sex through orifices other than the vagina, including masturbation or other sexual activity with the hand... From a Buddhist point of view, lesbian and gay sex is generally considered sexual misconduct".
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According to the footnote, the quote is from "Dalai Lama Urges 'Respect, Compassion, and Full Human Rights for All', including Gays." Conkin, Dennis. Bay Area Reporter, 19 June 1997
Personally, I think that masturbation does not violate the third precept since I can't see where any exploitation or harm is occurring. I suppose you could argue that you are harming yourself, but that seems a stretch. Pornography is a whole other kettle of fish. Perhaps one could come out of making a porn flick without being exploited or harmed, but I doubt it.
Like any other entertainment business, porn producers get their performers mostly from agencies. The agents that represent porn performers get so many girls coming into their offices that want to go into porn that the agents are turning them away. The pay is good and there's a certain amount of short lived fame. A lot of people find that attractive.
Generally, performers are rather ordinary people whose attitude towards sex is different from yours or mine. I've gradually come to the realization that, to paraphrase Haldane, other peoples' sex lives are not only queerer than I imagine, but possibly queerer than I can imagine. That doesn't make them whores or idiots or mean that they're being exploited. It does mean that I have to avoid assuming that my sexual behavior is normative and everyone else's is pathological.
To begin with, it should be made clear that Buddhist precepts aren't equivalent to commandments in that precepts are training rules that are voluntarily undertaken rather than edicts or commands dictated by a higher power and/or authority. In essence, these precepts are undertaken to protect oneself, as well as others, from the results of unskillful actions. Actions are considered unskillful when they arise out of the mental defilements of greed, hatred and delusion and lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others or to both (MN 61).
In regard to Buddhist sexual ethics, the third precept states: "I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct." This, of course, will naturally lead one to the question, What is the definition of sexual misconduct? To answer that question, however, we must take into account the other four precepts. The five precepts are an integrated whole, and each precept helps to support the others. The other four precepts are (1) to refrain from harming living beings, (2) to refrain from taking what's not given, (3) to refrain from false speech and (4) to refrain from taking intoxicants that lead to carelessness.
Therefore, generally speaking, we can say that sexual misconduct consists of any sexual conduct that involves violence, manipulation and/or deceit. As the Ven. S. Dhammika elaborates, "If we use trickery, emotional blackmail or force to compel someone to have sex with us, then this is sexual misconduct. Adultery is also a form of sexual misconduct because when we marry we promise our spouse that we will be loyal to them. When we commit adultery we break that promise and betray that trust. Sex should be an expression of love and intimacy between two people and when it is it contributes to our mental and emotional well-being."
To summarize, from what I've been taught by my teachers, as well as from what I've read in the suttas, sexual misconduct includes any sexual activity that leads to self-affliction, to the affliction of others or to both, or that involves any person who's already in a committed relationship (e.g., engaged, married, etc.), protected by law (e.g., under age, etc.) or under religious vows entailing celibacy (e.g., monks, nuns, etc.). Hence in Theravada, sex between consenting persons of legal age who aren't already in committed relationships and haven't taken vows of celibacy isn't considered misconduct.
In regard to anal and oral sex, there's a prohibition against sex concerning "inappropriate orifices" (i.e. anal and oral) that can be found in Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosabhasyam, as well as a few other Sarvastivadin texts, but there's no such prohibition found in any Theravadin source. The same goes for masturbation. These were most likely introduced by later commentators such as Vasubandhu.
Personally, I think that a lot of the views concerning marriage and sex are influenced more by cultural, religious and social norms than by any universal constant. And regardless of what any tradition of Buddhism has to say about, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with sex or masturbation; although I do think that strong sexual desires can cause discomfort in the mind when in deep states of concentration, and can actually make it difficult to develop more refined states of mind in the first place.
Excellent point. Some people just really enjoy having sex and don't mind being paid to have it.
Ive seen this guy and read the article on a previous occaision. He's not exactly a happy looking fellow. I'd be more likely to tread the path of someone with a smile in their eyes like TNH.
If she really gained happiness from her porno work, would she have been a heroin addict and spent these years in a "blackout"?
Do you have some evidence that that her addiction was linked to porn? I know about her only because of her work with AIM, so perhaps you know something I don't. When she talks about her career in porn, she gives no indication that she felt exploited or that she thinks she was harmed by it. She still seems to view it as a legitimate way of earning a living.
Drug abuse is very common in the west among all socio-economic classes. Middle class users make up an important part of the drug market in the US. Unless you have specific information, there's no reason to assume that her drug use was linked to her job any more than drug use is linked to bookkeeping or computer programming. She's quite upfront about both her addiction and her porn career, and I'm not aware that she's indicated a link between them.
Why? The mind-heart becomes spiritually disconnected.
As for her heroin, who knows?
Possibly being off her face in a heroin stupor & disconnected from her mind whilst doing it may have saved her alot of trouble.
:smilec: