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'Starving yogi' astounds Indian scientists

jj5jj5 Medford Lakes, N.J. U.S.A. Veteran
edited May 2010 in Meditation
http://www.physorg.com/news192690076.html

I just read this and thought it was interesting. I don't know what to make of it though.

Comments

  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited May 2010
    he's gorging himself on atman
  • hesyxiahesyxia
    edited May 2010
    Somehow I doubt soldiers could put this to use.
  • jj5jj5 Medford Lakes, N.J. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited May 2010
    "he's gorging himself on atman"

    LOL!
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    this guy was on the Buddha boy documentary.

    http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5412

    actually i believe.
    Specially after Buddha boy was approach by these important monks that came checking on him...

    Somehow i just believe this guy as well..



    ps check out the comments on the article that you sent... and people still believe that humanity is getting more enlighten...
  • jj5jj5 Medford Lakes, N.J. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Yes, i thought the comments were interesting as well.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Quite a few yogis develop strange powers. For instance, Swami Rama worked with the Menninger Foundation/Institute in the mid-late 1900's helping them study conscious control of physiological functions ... things like controlling heart rate, skin temperature (right side of one hand warm, left side of hand cold), etc.

    (My Tibetan teacher says anyone can learn siddhis if they devote the energy to it ... but siddhis are not enlightenment and why would anyone waste their time on them?)
  • ZachaaZachaa
    edited May 2010
    Unless this guy has miraculously developed some sort of chemosynthesis or a symbiotic relationship with invisible photosynthetic microbes, I do not see how he can possibly survive without food or water. ALL ORGANISMS MUST GET ENERGY FROM SOMEWHERE!!! As a scientist I cannot accept this without proof of where his body is getting its mystical energy.

    (Whooo I should show this to my students, I just used, like four or five words off of their Ecosystems test for next Thursday in one paragraph! ;) )
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2010
    :wtf::rolleyes::screwy:
    Not happening. There is only certain amount of time the physical body can go on without food or fluids. All the body's cells are in a contant state of renewal and require an input of energy to carry out these tasks. The brain can only function when two basic requirements are met, oxygen and glucose, without either brain cells begin to rupture, as the cells can no longer maintain the cells integrity. Two examples of this; when someone is not breathing (no oxygen to the cells) the cells in the brain, after a short amount of time begin to rupture releasing enzymes (these enzymes are supposed to be inside the cell and not outside) that will then actually begin to damage other cells. These in turn lyse and you just have this big cascade of brain cell destruction. Remember that if your heart and lungs aren't not fuctioning for about 7-10 minutes. Ever seen a diabetic with a blood sugar of 10? Their are in a shock state, with seizures and the beginnings of brain damage. If this is not corrected (with glucose) the brain will die as in the other example. So this guy has not taken in any food that his body can use as energy, okay. That will work for a little while. The body still needs to maintain and repair itself. Overtime without food the body will start catabolizing itself, breaking down muscle and fat deposits. This is only a short term fix and will lead to a hole host of other issues such a ketoacidosis and the like. Eventually this person will die. I won't even mention the water issue.:rolleyes:
    Yours in the Dharma,
    Todd
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    The swing is yellow wrote: »
    :wtf::rolleyes::screwy:
    Not happening. There is only certain amount of time the physical body can go on without food or fluids. All the body's cells are in a contant state of renewal and require an input of energy to carry out these tasks. The brain can only function when two basic requirements are met, oxygen and glucose, without either brain cells begin to rupture, as the cells can no longer maintain the cells integrity. Two examples of this; when someone is not breathing (no oxygen to the cells) the cells in the brain, after a short amount of time begin to rupture releasing enzymes (these enzymes are supposed to be inside the cell and not outside) that will then actually begin to damage other cells. These in turn lyse and you just have this big cascade of brain cell destruction. Remember that if your heart and lungs aren't not fuctioning for about 7-10 minutes. Ever seen a diabetic with a blood sugar of 10? Their are in a shock state, with seizures and the beginnings of brain damage. If this is not corrected (with glucose) the brain will die as in the other example. So this guy has not taken in any food that his body can use as energy, okay. That will work for a little while. The body still needs to maintain and repair itself. Overtime without food the body will start catabolizing itself, breaking down muscle and fat deposits. This is only a short term fix and will lead to a hole host of other issues such a ketoacidosis and the like. Eventually this person will die. I won't even mention the water issue.:rolleyes:
    Yours in the Dharma,
    Todd
    again, whatch this documentary, and pay attention to what the very highly ranked Buddhist monks has to say.
    http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5412

    Don't hold such a strong view, see it for what it is, simply a view on a topic. Why would you hold any of such vue with so much energy?

    open your mind.

    I'm not saying that you should buy anything that come your way but at least try to keep an open mind about things.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2010
    patbb wrote: »
    again, whatch this documentary, and pay attention to what the very highly ranked Buddhist monks has to say.
    http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5412

    Don't hold such a strong view, see it for what it is, simply a view on a topic. Why would you hold any of such vue with so much energy?
    Because quite simply this is not with in the realm of physical possibility. This is very easily proven, put him nude in a monitored environment without the possibility of any interaction, no food or water for just say 2-3 months, not even 70 years, and see who dies. I don't need miracles and certainly not this yogi, this life and the Dharma are more than enough.
    Yours in the Dharma,
    Todd
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    The swing is yellow wrote: »
    This is very easily proven, put him nude in a monitored environment without the possibility of any interaction, no food or water for just say 2-3 months, not even 70 years, and see who dies. I don't need miracles and certainly not this yogi, this life and the Dharma are more than enough.
    Yours in the Dharma,
    Todd
    that they did.

    cheers.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2010
    patbb wrote: »
    that they did.

    cheers.
    Is that so?
  • hesyxiahesyxia
    edited May 2010
    The swing is yellow wrote: »
    Is that so?
    No, the article does not say 2-3 months, but two weeks:
    Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.

    During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.
  • PemaRangdolPemaRangdol
    edited May 2010
    A greater siddhi would be to keep the samaya vows and stick to the Eightfold Path w/o straying, IMHO. Who cares if this guys can exist for 2-3 weeks w/o food or H2O. I don't believe it, but some crazy things happen in this world. Even more miraculous would be if we stopped polluting the earth or stopped fighting over etnic issues or resources. Buckminster Fuller said there is the technology and resources to feed, house and clothe everyone on the planet, how come we can't do that? Cuz we're not in agreement. If two agree, you can move mountains...or something to that effect.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited May 2010
    hesyxia wrote: »
    No, the article does not say 2-3 months, but two weeks:
    My "Is that so?" was more in the spirit of Hakuin;)
    Yours in the Dhrama,
    Todd
  • ShutokuShutoku Veteran
    edited May 2010
    To me this might hold interest from a scientific POV...maybe this fellow knows something that could benefit people suffering from malnutrition, but I see no real "spiritual" value.
    This fellow is presumably Hindu, but from a Buddhist perspective, it certainly isn't the "middle path".
    For myself I suspect he is a charlatan, and if this is the case, I think it is awful for anyone of any religion to make false claims in some sort of effort to sway people or gain fame.
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited May 2010
    There's a similar practice in Tibetan Buddhism called chulen. It's useful not to need to search for food when you're doing an isolated retreat.
  • Fran45Fran45
    edited May 2010
    I have read (admittedly on wiki) that most of the 'starving saints' studies are done at one institute in India by highly sympathetic Drs who do not allow objective validation by non participant observers. The institute's own publications 'make it clear that dozens of people had access to at least one of those studied'. In addition, none of the 'published' studied have been validated or published by professional, independent, peer reviewed journals.

    Whether or not this particular case is true, it has no bearing on Buddhist practice.
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Fran45 wrote: »
    In addition, none of the 'published' studied have been validated or published by professional, independent, peer reviewed journals.
    do you think the 'published' studied are the publishers/writers own experiences?
    ;)
    Whether or not this particular case is true, it has no bearing on Buddhist practice.
    100% agree

    but again
    we are not 100% sure 'this can not happen'
    therefore better to wait and see before reject it
  • KarikAsumaKarikAsuma
    edited May 2010
    Meditation... yoga...

    these things might increase endurance, but not even the buddha was able to live without food, right? It's the middle way. You should give your body nourishment, not to excess, not to deprivation.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited May 2010
    well Lama Jamyang Lekshey, which is director of Sakya Thubten monasteries, and visited Buddha boy while he was in his 4th month of meditating without food or water (in my previous link), did not seem surprised at all.

    you don't have to believe anything, but to keep an open mind is essential.
  • jgarsmanjgarsman
    edited May 2010
    Does it matter?
  • Fran45Fran45
    edited May 2010
    Hi Upekka,

    I'm not rejecting it. I'm passing on information that I'm aware of regarding the studies of starving saints.

    with metta
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Sorry, but even the slightest of biological knowledge will assure anyone that this is a hoax. Furthermore Fran45 found out that it's the same Indian institute which has performed all successful "studies" on this phenomenon. It's more than suspicious, it's almost silly in it's gullible attempt to persuade intelligent people into accepting something "extraordinary" just to boost some religious, spiritual mumbo-jumbo.
    There is a multitude of problems with the claim of not eating nor drinking for prolonged periods of time, the simplest being the issue of energy. Even if this man was able to "extract energy from his surroundings" or the sun, he would need vital vitamins and minerals to survive. Plants and non-respirational microbes do not do this either - plants withdraw minerals from water, and the microbes do the same. If he was to make photosynthesis, he would need chlorophyl in his cells - which would make him all green. It still wouldn't solve the problem of nutrients.
    Also note how the "doctors" publish their "scientific" article before all tests have been run. Does anyone really think they'll ever publish their other tests? No, because they didn't make any. It's doubtful that they even had him in quarantine for the whole two weeks, because no one was around to check on them. Their history of running this same test on several fasting people, but never doing any real, scientific research into the nature of the phenomenon is in itself enough to deny their claims.
    Please also note that any monk or other religious authority will not be astounded by this case, as they 1) do not have any or only very little formal education, 2) have a predetermined idea, that such things could occur. They are probably excellent spiritual guides, but science is not their field.
    It's not about "keeping an open mind" but about closing your mind to real facts, which make you believe such pseudo-science.
  • StaticToyboxStaticToybox Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Ficus_religiosa wrote: »
    Please also note that any monk or other religious authority will not be astounded by this case, as they 1) do not have any or only very little formal education, 2) have a predetermined idea, that such things could occur. They are probably excellent spiritual guides, but science is not their field.

    Indeed. It's a bit like an evangelical preacher being not at all surprised that they found "Noah's ark".
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited May 2010
    PemaRangdol wrote: »
    A greater siddhi would be to keep the samaya vows and stick to the Eightfold Path w/o straying, IMHO. Who cares if this guys can exist for 2-3 weeks w/o food or H2O. I don't believe it, but some crazy things happen in this world. Even more miraculous would be if we stopped polluting the earth or stopped fighting over etnic issues or resources.
    :lol:
    Well said!
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