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How Buddhist know when someone is enlightened?
If someone says they are enlightened does the Buddhist community just take their word for it? Seems like there must be a way to confirm this or else I would think there would be many that THINK they are enlightened or want people to believe that they are enlighten when in reality they aren't.
How do buddhists know when someone becomes a buddha or enlighted?
How do buddhists know when someone becomes a buddha or enlighted?
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An enlightened person would never bother proclaiming the fact.
They wouldn't need to.....
Their actions would, in all probability, speak louder than words.
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I guess taking Siddhartha Gautama as example, how do we know that he was in fact enlightened?
Did he say he was? How do we know he really was? His followers just took his word for it?
Forgive me if I am inaccurate with some of my facts but I think I have heard that a new buddha comes along every few thousand years and the last one was about 1000 years ago which I have no idea what his name was but if this is true then how did we know he was a true Buddha? Did he just tell people that and they believe him or people around him "thought" that he was a Buddha?
I don't mean to sound like I am debunking Buddhas because I do believe that these particular individuals did reach enlightenment but its a question I get asked quite often when I discuss Bhuddism to friends that are interested in it and don't know anything about it but I never know how to answer this question.
Think of what I said as a koan.
If only the enlightened can verify elightenment and the Buddha was "self-awakened", then only he could verify his enlightenment. He did, however, tell us to question anything that you hear, even what he says, that doesn't agree with your logic and beliefs.
It also becomes difficult when people compare it to how persuasive other historical leaders/prophets/teachers/etc were. How well they accomplished the feat of convincing a large group of people to believe them. If people are willing to flock and nod their heads along with someone proclaiming to be a god, why wouldn't they also be just as easily "fooled" into believing in a supreme state of enlightenment that only happens once every millennium?
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How we know, of course, is through personal verification of the teachings. Do they lead to the quenching of dukkha?
1)practice
2)make friends with wise monks, nuns and lay people
3)practice
4)listen to Dhamma talks, read Suttas
5)practice
6)remember what you have heard
7)practice
8)discuss Dhamma, ask questions
9)practice
10)contemplate the Dhamma
11)practice
12)keep repeating above steps
These 12 steps are the best way I know of to overcome doubts.
Actually it was more like 2500 years ago
Tell your friends to practice what the Buddha taught, tell them to try the Eightfold Path and see if it leads to an increase in qualities such as love, compassion and inner-peace. Once they see the changes in their own mind from practice their faith will increase that its possible to completely free themselves from suffering.
Maybe you can say to them something like: "Well, there's nothing I can really say that will convince you that the Buddha is enlightened, and you are correct to think that way. You shouldn't believe that the Buddha is enlightened simply because I say he is. But, if you REALLY want to know whether or not he's enlightened, why don't you test out the instructions that he left us and see if they lead to the destination he said they would. It is not like other religions where you have to die to find out if you picked the right religion or not, the results are verifiable in this lifetime to each individual for themselves in their own hearts and minds."
But, even though they ask, many of them probably won't bother to practice and to verify it for themselves. That's fine though, that's just the way people are sometimes, if they aren't ready to listen they won't listen. Still go ahead and explain though, there may be someone who is asking questions who actually wants to hear the answer and is unafraid of where it might lead. Such people are rare. But it is because such people exist that the Buddha, through his great compassion, decided to teach us.
This one is essential, the company you keep. Being with people who's speech and conduct inspires respect and aspiration. People, frankly, to look up to. Not in a worshipful or attached way, but as examples of living Dharma who embody certain virtues . They are out there.
I love this post, it's basically the truth. You can not disagree with any element of it all because it is just plain reality. Why is it that sometimes the truth is hard to accept???
I also love how Buddishm is a guideline as opposed to a hardcore doctrin on how to live your life. It enocurages scepticism and questioning as opposed to mere following. The teachings are there for you read and to interpret, it is up to you whether to take them up.
"Buddism is a guideline as opposed to a hardcore doctrin(e)"
"it's basically the truth. You can not disagree with any element of it all because it is just plain reality. Why is it that sometimes the truth is hard to accept???"
......So which one is it going to be?
never mind. Yes, Guy C's post is very good.
Without writing materials and without showing this word "Absoluteness" to someone using any media. Now, take out this word "Absoluteness" from this screen or take out from your mind this word "Absoluteness" to your friend!!!<!-- / message -->
HAHA
I think you're just making excuses for all your thermometer poking.
I've got enough to do this life to worry about the definition of enlightenment .....it's the journey that counts not the destination....
Aside from that I don't know. But even if I did you wouldn't know whether or not to believe ME. It would be the same predicament as knowing if someone is enlightened. If I give a rubric for determining it then you also need a rubric to determine if my rubric is correct.
Infinite regression.
Maybe try the Kalama sutra?
Its the biggest red flag of all red flags.
I think we need to be careful here.
Who is the more enlightened, the person who understands Dharma and practices it or the person who craves cash and possessions and interacts greedily with their peers?
Whatever enlightenment is, surely it is the end of a process rather than some binary is/isn't flip switch?
I am sure most of us here are more enlightened than your average greedy banker...
namaste
Bottom line is....
IT DOESN'T MATTER!
If I say to you that I am enlightened, then you would hopefully be open enough to hear what I had to say from an objective point. If what I had to say did not help you in your path, then you would have no reason to listen to me. Maybe I was enlighted, maybe I wasn't. It doesn't matter because what I had to say to you didn't help.
On the other hand, if what I had to say did help you, then you would probably listen to more of what I had to say because it is helping you walk the path. Regardless if I am enlightened or not it is beneficial to everyone for you to hear what I have to say.
In the end it doesn't matter if I was enlightened or not.
Btw, this was just an example. I am far from being enlightened.
"What do you think, Subhuti? Is it possible to grasp the Tathagata (note: the buddha) by means of bodily signs?"
"No, World-Honored One. When the Tathagata speaks of bodily signs, there are no signs being talked about."
The Buddha said to Subhuti, "In a place where there is something that can be distinguished by signs, in that place there is deception. If you can see the signless nature of signs, then you can see the Tathagata."
Another place:
What do you think Subhuti, has the Tathagata arrived at the highest, most fulfilled, awakened mind? Does the Tathagata give any teaching?"
The venerable Subhuti replied, "As far as I have understood the Lord Buddha's teachings, there is no independently existing object of mind called the highest, most fulfilled, awakened mind, nor is there any independently existing teaching that the Tathagata gives. Why? The teachings that the Tathagata has realized and spoken of cannot be conceived of as separate, independent existences and therefore cannot be described. The Tathagata's teaching is not self existent nor is it non-self existent. Why? Because the noble teachers are only distinguished from others in terms of the unconditioned."
Yours in the Dharma,
Todd
I don't know the suttas/sutras at all like the people around here do, but I've read about this somewhere before. Is this totally off the mark?
So when you look at the mail carrier, the lady at the cash register in the grocery store, or yourself in the mirror. Realize that you are looking at buddha.
Wake up!
The answer to the question, "How does a Buddhist know when someone is enlightened?" is, "She doesn't."
Oh, and hi everyone.
~ AD
A "being" is just a collection of non-static processes.
As far as relating enlightenment to myself, I've always favoured the "keep the bugs away approach", taken from the words of Ajahn Chan.....
Do not worry about enlightenment. When growing a tree, you plant it, water it, fertilize it, keep the bugs away; and if these things are done properly, the tree will naturally grow. How quickly it grows, however, is something you cannot control.
And to complete a little trilogy of quotes (as I have very little wisdom of my own...:) ) there is the old joke....
Of the guy in the lotus position saying......"I read so much about it beforehand that now I'm actually enlightened its a little bit of a disappointment."
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Enlightenment is not first of all a philosophical concept, nor a psychological insight, but a physical event, an energetic, transactional exchange between an individual and the Cosmos.
Enlightenment is for the bodhisattwa an empowerment.
To put it out there that you are enlightened may well be unexpedient and to no positive effect.
The sceptical and materialistic will only scoff; or if some do believe you, it may bring unwelcome adulation from the naive and interference from the powers-that-be.
Enlightenment bears its own seal of unquestionable authority for its recipient, is unshakeable in the face of doubters, and will receive its own evergrowing witness from out of all the ten thousand things.
Before I sought enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.
While I sought enlightenment, the mountains were not mountains and the rivers were not rivers.
After I attained enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.
Cultivate your garden.
**ありがとうございます
**
@Ryunosuke this thread is 8 years old, and frankly, quite 'dead. Apart from Jeffrey and me ( a Moderator) none of the above members contribute any more and have not been seen on forum for a number of years. So pardon me if I close the thread, but if you feel moved to do so, feel free to begin a new one on the subject.