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Marriage advice
I'm writing this mostly because I feel so sad and lost and wish I could get some advice or perspective.
I have been married for about two years; no children yet. During this time I have grown quite a bit. I discovered Buddhism and started understanding things about myself that were previously obscured. I feel great hope for my future as I gain confidence in my ability to see more clearly (and even to see more clearly that I don't see things clearly, where that is the case). I am far from where I want to be, but I am coming to terms with reality and learning to be who I am right now, in the best way that I can.
My wife and I are very different people in certain ways. I tend to have faith in people, give people the benefit of the doubt, and know that I cannot fairly judge another person as I have not walked in their shoes (I'm aware of the irony in the judgements that follow; take it as you will). I feel that I've always been a somewhat humble person and that this humility has grown with me as I have seen more of the world and keep discovering how very far I am from my ideal self. My wife is not a humble person and is sometimes child-like in her words and actions. She is selfish and hurts people around her and tends to see fault in those same people, but not herself. She is quite intellectual (and smart) and can often be convinced that she is in the wrong through logic/discussion/argument, but even when this is admitted to, it doesn't seem to affect the way that she lives and the way that she acts towards others.
She has hurt me more than I've ever been hurt (more than I ever thought was possible), repeatedly. I'm often caught off guard: it can happen just when I think that things are going to work out and that we have each grown a little and are doing much better for it. When I am stretched to my limits, I snap and act shamefully and no doubt hurt her just as much as she hurts me. I know that my actions are my own and not her fault, but I feel incapable of handling being shown how inadequate I am - how far away from what I wish I was. I am confident that I will get to where I want to be (by devoting myself to meditation and learning and practice in every moment of every day that I can), but I know that my current limitations are very real. I know this because, even with genuine honest intent to act mindfully and skillfully, I can fail completely. I accept this and try to learn. It's a painful process.
I do not know if I should stay married to this person and I need to choose before a baby comes around, at which point I know that I will have no choice. I know that no one but myself can make this choice, but I feel so lonely with this.
I suspect that if my wife took up a genuine attempt at Buddhism she could improve herself in the same ways that I've been improving myself, but of course I know that no one can be coerced into doing such a thing; I'm scared that even suggesting it might be a harmful/stupid move on my part. I am desperate however and do not know what to do.
I know that no one can give specific advice to this tiny snippet of (obviously biased) info. But perhaps someone can give advice as to the *general* way in which a skillful Buddhist would deal with such a situation. Mindfully, of course...
I have been married for about two years; no children yet. During this time I have grown quite a bit. I discovered Buddhism and started understanding things about myself that were previously obscured. I feel great hope for my future as I gain confidence in my ability to see more clearly (and even to see more clearly that I don't see things clearly, where that is the case). I am far from where I want to be, but I am coming to terms with reality and learning to be who I am right now, in the best way that I can.
My wife and I are very different people in certain ways. I tend to have faith in people, give people the benefit of the doubt, and know that I cannot fairly judge another person as I have not walked in their shoes (I'm aware of the irony in the judgements that follow; take it as you will). I feel that I've always been a somewhat humble person and that this humility has grown with me as I have seen more of the world and keep discovering how very far I am from my ideal self. My wife is not a humble person and is sometimes child-like in her words and actions. She is selfish and hurts people around her and tends to see fault in those same people, but not herself. She is quite intellectual (and smart) and can often be convinced that she is in the wrong through logic/discussion/argument, but even when this is admitted to, it doesn't seem to affect the way that she lives and the way that she acts towards others.
She has hurt me more than I've ever been hurt (more than I ever thought was possible), repeatedly. I'm often caught off guard: it can happen just when I think that things are going to work out and that we have each grown a little and are doing much better for it. When I am stretched to my limits, I snap and act shamefully and no doubt hurt her just as much as she hurts me. I know that my actions are my own and not her fault, but I feel incapable of handling being shown how inadequate I am - how far away from what I wish I was. I am confident that I will get to where I want to be (by devoting myself to meditation and learning and practice in every moment of every day that I can), but I know that my current limitations are very real. I know this because, even with genuine honest intent to act mindfully and skillfully, I can fail completely. I accept this and try to learn. It's a painful process.
I do not know if I should stay married to this person and I need to choose before a baby comes around, at which point I know that I will have no choice. I know that no one but myself can make this choice, but I feel so lonely with this.
I suspect that if my wife took up a genuine attempt at Buddhism she could improve herself in the same ways that I've been improving myself, but of course I know that no one can be coerced into doing such a thing; I'm scared that even suggesting it might be a harmful/stupid move on my part. I am desperate however and do not know what to do.
I know that no one can give specific advice to this tiny snippet of (obviously biased) info. But perhaps someone can give advice as to the *general* way in which a skillful Buddhist would deal with such a situation. Mindfully, of course...
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Comments
I would start by showing her your post and then asking her to talk freely and openly about it.
good luck:)
The situation will not improve unless you consider counselling.
And what would you attend counselling for?
"I am Buddhist, my wife isn't...what can we do.....?"
But your two paths are diverging....
She is an excellent teacher, so it's as well to heed the situation and use it to build on, not permit it to undermine your foundations.
The only person in this duet who can change anything, is you.
It's all very well loving somebody, but if your love contains dependency, then it's a questionable basis to love from.....
seeing that matters will not greatly change in her camp, perhaps you must simply seek the changes that will - or must - occur in yours.
Vey often people will lash out and inflict pain, out of fear and uncertaintly.
People mock that which they do not understand.
If she can be reasoned with intellectually through logic/discussion/argument but cannot change her attitude as a result, then she is neither learning nor absorbing anything. She uses nothing if it means backing down or compromising. The Buddha described people such as this, as 'fools'.
The choice of what to do with your future, lies with you.
She seems to have made her decision.
If you stay with her out of Loving Kindness and compassion, ask how wise it is.
Even the Dalai lama left his homeland. It was the wiser choice in the long run, although I'm sure, at the time, it could well have ripped his heart out.....
I'm not telling you to leave.
nobody can make that decision for you.
but part of living together involves flexibility, adaptation and compromise.
Is it a happening thing for you?
the buddha taught very strongly about virtue in relationship & marriage
he taught (here) a happy long successful marriage comes when two people share the same virtues, the same goodness, the same generosity, the same understanding
he also taught when both partners lack virtue or one partner lacks virtue, that marriage will be problematic
i think what you are pondering is worthy of consideration
try to be honest & open to your partner
buddha advised this is the first virtue of a relationship - honesty (sacca)
working out your problems - fully - before children is a good idea
goodness & caring for another is not exclusively "buddhist"
we do not have to mention "buddhism" to discuss human virtues & necessities
harmlessness (ahimsa), safety (abhaya), generosity (caga), love (metta), patience (khanti), gratitude (kattanukavedhi), compassion (karuna), gentleness (soracca), etc,...are human qualities
i would recommend these qualities rather than the "buddhism"...
Well said, Dhamma Dhatu.
Metta,
Retro.
I too agree with Federica's sentiments. You have to ask yourself whether this marriage is worth pursuing or not. People can not and will not change unless they want to change themselves. Keep in mind also that although she may realise that change is required, does she possess enough strength to do so??? This ties in with Federica's statement that she is not absorbing what you tell her despite what you may had thought at the time. If people do listen, then they will understand, and if they truly understand then they will know the options presented to them which are to either continue hurting my husband or to stop. She appears to have made that decision....
I agree that it's a great idea to try to discuss all this with your wife first. But it sounds like you already know that there may be no other option if that doesn't work. A lot of people are still too comfortable in their heads to see anything bigger than themselves.
The responses are very wise. And you are too. It is indeed wise to keep children out of the picture unless you are sure this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with.
You sound as if you are at the end of your rope. When people reach this point, they start grasping at straws ... and you need to remember:
(1) no one else can motivate your wife to change or to practice Buddhism, and
(2) people do not necessarily grow up when they become Buddhists. A dear friend and her husband have been practicing over 15 years ... but he still blows up and has temper tantrums on a weekly basis.
This is a difficult time for you. A session with a counselor would give you a friendly, non-judgmental ear.
I will try to be has honest and direct as possible. I've been in your shoes (or very similar anyway) and you seem to be confused, so adding fluff to make this politically correct may not do any good.
first of all, if you try to see more clearly into this, it may help to get your faults out of the way. The way i see it, your faults are mixte in a pot filled with complaints, desire, problems etc... So if we take the stuff that are your responsability (nothing she can do about it) out of the pot, it will be much easier to see clearly.
things like: she never hurt you or made you feel bad, you did this to yourself by reacting unskillfully to what she said and what she did.
Your emotions, your responsibility, out of the pot.
Do you love your wife and you are trying to help her out of compassion or you are craving for her to have different features to make your life easier as it is difficult for you to deal with your own reactions to what she say and do?
If it is craving, then once again you can take this out of the relationship equation and add it to yours "my problems" box.
again, being scared is your problem, preventing you from being honest with her and building up anxiety inside of you...
Don't you think that if you were not so scared, that if you would not lose your composure, and you would be able to maintain any conversation without losing your temper (no matter how she act) that you would have a much better chance of talking things through?
At least if you can remove everything that is your problem out of this "problem with my wife" pot, then what is left in there (if anything) is the real problem with your relationship.
But from reading your post, it seem like a big deal of this situation is that you are standing in your own way.
If you do make big progress in your life with meditation, she will see them and she will benefit directly because of it, as you will behave much more peacefully and calmly... then she may very well get an interest in meditation.
Very good advice, DD
.
You mentioned the need to figure this out before a child "comes along." Unless you are referring to adoption, children do not just come along. I find it absurd that many people are able to feel so positive and loving about their spouse to have sexual intercourse on Monday, then question whether or not they should separate on Tuesday because of something he/she said or did.
Get your head around this: A successful marriage is NEVER a "50% -50%" proposition. The 50-50 concept is a recipe for certain disaster. It is always a "100%" proposition on your end, with no guarantee about what your partner will do. Ever.
This means it is your job to give 100% to the woman you decide to love simply because loving her is who you are. It is your "practice." If after some time the marriage doesn't work out because of choices the partner makes, then the decision becomes crystal clear not only to you...but believe it or not, it also becomes clear to your partner as well.
How does that work? Well, when this really truly sinks in, the partner, who previously was in a control struggle with you on a day-to-day basis, begins to realize they do not need to struggle anymore because the wind is always at their back...YOU (her husband!) just continues to make the intentional, consistent decision to show loving kindness, support, and acceptance to her no matter what she does in response. So...you decide to love her and serve her when she is being selfish or hurtful, and you decide to love her, support her, and serve her when she tests you (and from the sound of it, she will). The guard slowly lowers and a real connection can begin to form. Until then, prepare for more of the same bullsh*t every day of your life.
Marriage is not for the weak. Even the best pairing requires a lot of hard work and strength of character.
I hear how distressing it is for you to wonder about your compatibility with your wife. I think many people who notice they are looking at a different kind of world than their partner tend to go through this consideration. As advised by others, opening up to her about this troublesome aspect of your relationship is important... talking about virtue can certainly help expose any places where incompatible views might be lurking between you two.
Another possibility is that you are more at peace than she is, and that is something that you can help with if you want. For instance, instead of running over to her mind and trying to change the faulty belief that is making her head spin into judgment and aggression and whatnot.... try giving her room, perhaps silently holding her hand or embracing her... make your heart open enough to her that her pain is diminished through your love, rather than cognitively shifted by your mind (through explaining, debating, arguing.) Does that make sense?
Sometimes it can be from a sense of solitude that people can flare up like that, and if you let yourself just be with her, she might settle quite naturally.
The real question is not "What arises when she is wild?" but "What view does she have when she is stable and open?" If she has incompatible expectations when she is peaceful, then the union is doomed to fail... you'll continue to want different things. If she is simply less stable or controlled than you are, and you're seeing her rage from pain that doesn't upset you, then it is really just a matter of healing and strength that is between her and the kind of equanimity you experience. We all stub our toes from time to time, the real question is who we are when we come back from the chaos of pain.
With warmth,
Matt
There's a widespread belief that if you treat other people the way you want to be treated, you will have a good relationship with them. This works when two people have similar personalities, and causes a lot of problems and lots of misery for people with different personalities.
People with different personalities have different ideas about how to express love, what is considerate speech and what is rude, how to respond to problems, the appropriate way to respond to another person's feelings, etc etc etc. Perhaps your wife really is selfish, but your description almost perfectly matches the things I've heard other people say about someone who views the world and social interaction differently.
Before you tell anyone else that your wife is selfish, I strongly recommend that the two of you get some counseling and figure out what is actually going on. Until the two of you get your assumptions about communication and relationships out in the open, nothing is going to change.
You have received some great advice from your friends here. You chose your spouse for whatever reasons (and she chose you presumably!), so this should be treasured. It sounds like you are willing to work things out, so keep that in mind and be patient.
As has already been said, you should definitely bring your feelings up to her. Be cogniscient about how you say things though -- I recommend saying things like, "I feel this way when this happens" or "I think this when you say that" so you aren't pointing the finger at her directly, if you get my meaning.
Ultimately, friend, you probably need counseling from a professional who can work with you and your spouse one on one, face to face (sometimes spouses refuse counseling and one person will attend alone, which is unfortunate but sometimes the change in attitude/behavior can motivate a spouse to attend).
I wish you the best.
i am not a profession but i will tell u that u know that it is very hard to change. for me, it took me couple of months and my family support all the way to change.
like someone said b4 by the way u type, ur wife has chosen to be herself. so i think it is better to talk to her straight and tell her ur problems, and have a discussion.
think for long term and i hope everything will be fine.
That little critical voice inside you needs to get heard.
Call her on it when she is being lame..
say yo YOU ARE BEING LAME woman!
of course ALWAYS back it up with logic after that, if you are right and logical with her, she SHOULD yield to you.
IF you are right and she doesn't yield to you and your logic,
first check your logic, review and make sure you are right,
then tell her to get the hell out
maybe you aren't smart enough yet , but just practice and you can shape your reality and hers for the better...all people can be re-programmed,
work on it