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monks robe and fashion
angulimala
Veteran
hi,
just want to know your opinion about monks robe.would it be better for monks now to wear modern clothing than wear the ancient time fashion robe.
just want to know your opinion about monks robe.would it be better for monks now to wear modern clothing than wear the ancient time fashion robe.
0
Comments
Palzang
ouch.... Touché..... if only I could say u spik wiv forked tongue.... :-/
"Phra Acharn Mun, who always curbed himself against taking delight in what was pleasing to the eye, made this practice one of his regular observances. He tried to collect pieces of discarded cloth in such places as cemeteries and sewed them up into a robe or into a piece of cloth which could be used for something else. He sometimes 'drew a robe' placed on a corpse in a cemetery when such a robe was deliberately offered him by the owner of the corpse. While on his alms-round, going to and from a village, he made it a practice to pick up pieces of torn, discarded cloth on the side of the road, no matter what kind they were. He would later wash such pieces of cloth clean and use them for mending his robes or for something else. When his devotees afterwards learned of this practice, they would offer him robes by placing them in a cemetery which was on the way he would take on his alms-round, or around the area where he was dwelling. He later modified this practice to suit circumstances and he allowed himself to 'draw a robe' in a variety of localities. He kept this observance until the last day of his life.
Phra Acharn Mun often said that bhikkhus who hope for inward peace must regard themselves as worthless rags [in the eyes of worldly men]. With such an attitude of mind they will not be troubled in eating, sleeping, and in associating with others. They do not inflate themselves with feelings of self-importance or with vanity, knowing that what makes a recluse of a man is his capacity for deflating his own ego, not his capacity to extol himself. This is morality, or rather maturity, which is to be expected of a recluse. An aspirant must keep a wary eye on the intrusion of vanity and not allow it to encroach upon the domain of dharma, otherwise he would deteriorate and become more like an animal than a human being. To subjugate the 'self' concept, treating it as though it were only pieces of rags and not allowing it to rear its head of vanity, is the criterion of progress in the dharma. Like the great wide earth, such a mind is unshakable and unmoved by circumstances. Having been purged of all kinds and all degrees of vanity and egotism, it is able to maintain its balance on all occasions. The dhutanga practice of wearing rag-robes is a means by which to reduce and remove the concept of 'self'."
I agree - I LOVE those robes.
I also don't understand how I receive a blessing from something as inanimate as a robe. I guess maybe it's the blessing to the eye to see something colorful - like a nice blouse or something is "pleasing" to the eye - thus it could be considered a blessing.
But, since it is of no real concern to me one way or the other - I figure it's whatever makes a person happy. If you feel that by wearing robes you are strengthening(sp?) your seeking of "enlightenment" - then more power to you!
-bf
Zoinks! Simon just lays it all on the line, doesn't he?
You're going along in the day feeling pretty good about yourself and then... WHAM - he nails you right between the eyes.
-bf
Just teasing, Simon.
We in America tend to cover up the truth by a self-imposed ignorance don't we? I for one buy jeans, knowing that they are not made in the U.S., and still I ignore where they actually came from because I can't sew myself. I just want the damn jeans.
Without actually seeing where the come from, and who is making them, it doesn't exist to me - even though I "know" where they come from. I intentionally ignore this fact. I pay the $30 anyway while some poor mother in China is making hundreds of these same jeans for I-don't-even-know-what an hour.
When monks wear robes they do so for many reasons. One reason is that they are training themselves to eradicate vanity. Clothing often shows status, class, and rank. In the Buddha's Sangha there is no such thing. The only difference between monks really is the length that they have been ordained. Robes are simple and unornamental. They are for covering up the body to protect it from the weather, covering up the genitals, and inspiring those that see them.
Inspire you may ask? How so?
Well, when you are in a bad neighborhood and you see the blue uniform of a cop you might feel a little safer (in most cases at least), "Ah, they will protect me from danger.", or when you are sick and in need of help and then you see the white of the doctor's coat you feel relief, "Ah, help is here!", and when you see the saffron of the Buddha's robes you can sense peace and tranquility, "Ah, the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha."
It's another way of observing mindfulness if you think about it.
If you are interested please listen to this wonderful Dhamma talk by Ajahn Amaro. I believe near the beginning he mentions the wearing of robes, as well as other things: http://www.abhayagiri.org/index.php/main/medium/652/
Jason
I was sitting here thinking... "I don't wanna see 'em. I'm glad they're covered up!"
-bf
Maybe I should read my posts a little better before sending them.
I understand that originally there were fairly stringent guidelines on how many robes a monk might own, among other meagre items, but that the 'rules' were relaxed when it was understood that the guidelines could not be applied in exactly the same way everywhere, for all monks due to climactic conditions... (maybe Elohim may have more info on this.....
I was discussing a spiritual/theological/religious/philosophical matter with a friend of mine when I still lived in the UK.... well, you know, she was getting a little hot under the collar, because she didn't want to admit it, but I was absolutely right. (She said as much, a few days later, bless her, and apologised!) At that time however, she still continued to argue and deride my points in a less than complimentary manner. At that point, I said to her...
What if I was wearing a nun's habit? or the robes of a Buddhist monk? Would you still be arguing with me?" She looked kind of quizzical....
"Probably not, "she admitted.
"Why not?" I ventured....
"Well," she hesitated... "because it would be.... disrespectful..... and you'd be talking about your beliefs, and it would be rude....."
"So," I finished, administering the coup de grace (cow!) "Why are they any less valid simply because I'm saying them, and a nun isn't? Simply because I'm not wearing a habit, are they any less true?"
Exit friend, stage left, in a huff.... can't say I entirely blamed her, I WAS being a bit of a smart-arse, but she got my point....
I think therefore that the wearing of 'The Cloth' for any Religious or Spiritual person, is obviously a very evident way of demonstrating their beliefs and who they are and what they represent. No matter what a person's religious persuasion, for my part, if I see someone wearing the symbolic apparel of their religion, I just feel they deserve my respect for "wearing their heart on their sleeves". There are bound to be exceptions, and there are some instances when this is not always the case with me - put it this way - the humbler they are, the better I like 'em.....!!
I think of the monks robes as a tool for practice, much like malas and the like.
Another reason that wearing the robes is important is that when Lord Siddhartha was exploring the world outside his palace for the first time, it wasn't seeing sick, elderly and dead people that induced him to renounce his privileged life, it was seeing the mendicant, the "Fourth Friend". So seeing a monk can be revolutionary, it can have a powerful impact on a person's life, shocking them out of their usual, ordinary mindset. That's especially true in a non-Buddhist country where people aren't used to seeing the robes.
Palzang
Hey Palzang...I like that name "Pal"zang...
I thought you had left us. Glad to see your back.
What did you mean by "Fourth Friend" and mendicant? Could you explain this a little bit for us?
-bf
So, the four friends, as they are termed, were the four people Lord Siddhartha saw when he snuck out of his palace on four occasions after he came to the realization that perhaps the rest of the world did not live like he did. On the first sojourn, he saw a sick person, the first time he had done so. The second time he saw an old person, also for the first time. The third time he encountered a dead person, which really shook him to the core for he had never known that his blessed existence would come to an end some day. But the fourth time was the crucial one because this time he saw a mendicant, an ascetic probably, that planted the idea in his mind that perhaps one could do something about our human condition of experiencing endless birth and rebirth in cyclic existance and gave him the impetus to abandon his life of luxury and ease - not to mention a wife he loved very much and a new baby son - and become a mendicant himself to try to find an answer. So the story of the Four Friends is a crucial episode in the story of how Siddhartha became enlightened. The term "mendicant" simply means someone who wanders with no belongings and lives off alms and the kindness of strangers. It's a traditional practice in India that originated long before recorded history. The tradition is kept alive in the Theravadan tradition, particularly the Forest Monks of Thailand who sleep in the open and eat only what is offered to them.
Your Pal, zang
As for my input on robes, I see no reason as to why many monks and nuns can't go without on occasion. However, I do like that they stand out. It makes it easy for one who might need some spiritual insight or encouragement to find a monk/nun. Wearing common clothing would be a practice of making yourself unavailable to the general public when necessary, while being in robes marks you as available. As for me, I would be the first to stand up for a monk/nun of any order.
I remember sitting in a lecture hall listening to a talk by a Lama, here in France, and I have to say, he did keep adjusting the part of his robe that went over his shoulder... Incientally, due to the cold, he was wearing a thick flannellette lumberjack shirt... but it was maroon and yellow.... wonder where he got that?!?
Gravity took care of everything!
-bf
Palzang