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my biggest...problem..
Now although I am sure I'm in the wrong place, as I should ask some neutral people rather than one who may convert me, I want to know opinions.
I am 28, 2 kids, married.
Raised into no faith, but always called my self a protestant Christian, I have always had a Rockie relationship/faith with god.
I have a fear of death like none other...doctors in the past have wanted to commit me, due to this unhealthy fear.
I do not want to die, I do not want my wife to die ans have to live without her. I also do not want to die without achieving something, as I am trying to work into politics as it is along time love of mine.
I am an ex drug addict and ex prolific self harmer. I also had a heart op 3 years ago due to my abuses.
I am a big animal rights activist and love the environment with my very soul, I have worked for years helping OceanDefenders to stop whaling hunting, and many other campaigns.
This year, I started me and my wife and kids to the local catholic church. Since we have been attending great things have happened. My mother, a 13 year alcoholic stopped drinking, and is 10 weeks sober. I have been accepted in university to take a BA in political science, and have been given grant money to complete it which means I dont have to pay a penny back. And we got into the house of our dreams! which we wasn't expecting to be able to get a mortgage for, but we did.
However...I still feel something missing in my faith/religion I still fear death...when I shouldnt as my faith teaches me life in heaven...
I just...dont know what to do...
so why am i now looking at Buddhism.....
I am 28, 2 kids, married.
Raised into no faith, but always called my self a protestant Christian, I have always had a Rockie relationship/faith with god.
I have a fear of death like none other...doctors in the past have wanted to commit me, due to this unhealthy fear.
I do not want to die, I do not want my wife to die ans have to live without her. I also do not want to die without achieving something, as I am trying to work into politics as it is along time love of mine.
I am an ex drug addict and ex prolific self harmer. I also had a heart op 3 years ago due to my abuses.
I am a big animal rights activist and love the environment with my very soul, I have worked for years helping OceanDefenders to stop whaling hunting, and many other campaigns.
This year, I started me and my wife and kids to the local catholic church. Since we have been attending great things have happened. My mother, a 13 year alcoholic stopped drinking, and is 10 weeks sober. I have been accepted in university to take a BA in political science, and have been given grant money to complete it which means I dont have to pay a penny back. And we got into the house of our dreams! which we wasn't expecting to be able to get a mortgage for, but we did.
However...I still feel something missing in my faith/religion I still fear death...when I shouldnt as my faith teaches me life in heaven...
I just...dont know what to do...
so why am i now looking at Buddhism.....
0
Comments
The way you're stating it, I hear that your fear is of being insignificant. Have you considered that humankind may be wholly unaltered by your passing through, and that would be alright?
Most people have fear of death and dying, especially ones who feel that it is a ceasing. I wonder why your phobia is so powerful. Do you have any ideas? Did someone close die young?
With warmth,
Matt
My grandfather died when I was 13. He was the biggest and greatest influence on me.
When he was in hospital after his stroke I couldn't go and see him...I couldn't face seeing him like that. The day before he died my mother showed him a picture of all us and he raised his hand and pointed at me in the picture...I was the only one in the picture who did not visit him in hospital.
It haunts me to this day.
Although I am walking a catholic path, I have not been baptized and am more of a visitor to the church...
Have I ever been 100% happy be Christian, no.... I sometimes still feel...I need to go elsewhere
I would also like to add the following.
In my trouble years I had a full arm tattoo put on my left arm, it is a sleeve which representing the world ending. Part of the tattoo is falling rain drops. My tattooist, only telling me afterward that inside one of the rain drops he had inked in the symbol of Buddha - He told me that when the time came I would know why it was there. All he told me was the following
"In the tattoo, everything is chaos...yet within all this chaos is the symbol of a truly remarkable man, and one day you may find it"
This is a true story and am able to show the photos if anyone is interested. To this day I find myself looking at this rain drop, trying to figure my life out
Well, 13 is a difficult time for death and decay especially. The brain has just moved into formal operational thinking, where you can abstract a lot, but without the stability and maturity to be able to handle what abstractions you make. Its like being scared of shadows you can see, but aren't strong enough to see through.
When you say it haunts you, do you mean you can still imagine the feelings and sensory information (sights, sounds) as though it were right next to you? It does sound like a very tragic moment for you, and could easily be fueling a phobia of this kind. Have you been able to forgive that 13 year old boy for making the choice he did? I wonder if you are still very angry with yourself?
Do you meditate at all? If you feel up to it, you may want to consider looking for a Buddhist or yoga meditation teacher in your area. If you are upfront about wishing to learn proper meditation technique, I am certain there will be no "converting" unless you change your own mind based off the stability or wisdom you hear.
Also, a western therapist (a good one) could help you unlock the emotions tied up in the idea of death, if you're looking for a completely non-secular advisor. I respect your desire to not be converted into anything, which is why therapy is offered as a solid plan B. Proper meditation would almost certainly be the best fuel for personal evolution.
With warmth,
Matt
When I say I don't want to be converted, I think part of me does. Buddhism in a lot of ways makes sense to me, but I am still scare about that...what if...
Matt reading your post actual brought tears to my eyes...
I hate myself for not going to visit the man I idolized, and hate the fact I didn't go into the hospital and see him and say goodbye. I remember the last time I had seen him and I told him I loved him and would see him soon. The idea he passed wishing I had gone in to see him hurts me.
You are the only person I have ever spoken to this about, as my family, don't talk about it, its still upsetting to everyone as he impacted everyones lives with so much force...
..May I ask... What Buddha would say on this subject?
I have never meditated, I wouldn't know how to, plus I don't think I can. My mind goes everywhere, and is always racing at 100 mp/h
I feel like a oil drop in a ocean of water
I didn't used to be afraid of death ... but that was because I didn't really believe it would happen to me!
Now I know better, and there are times when the fear bobs up like a cork bobs up to the surface of the water. I think this is a universal (or almost-universal) fear.
Buddhism can suggest this, and you don't have to be a Buddhist to learn how to respond this way:
When the fear rises up, LET it be there ... recognize it, acknowledge it, but don't engage it. What makes this fear so painful for us is that we want it to go away, we want to "fix" it, we view that fear as if it was a "mistake" in our lives. It is this way with fear, pain, regret ... etc. The more we try to run from it or make it go away, the more keenly we feel it. When in fact, there is not a single life in which fear, pain, or regret never occurs ... why should I, or you, be any different.
As Pema Chodron advises,
"Don't indulge (wallow in it),
don't ignore (repress),
don't speed right past (by getting busy with something elseto distract ourselves) ...
Stay present."
IMHO that's kind of rude. Doesn't sound real warm to me.
If you're really hoping to find some wisdom and help in Buddhist practice, consider looking on youtube at the Buddhist Society's videos. There is some general information that might be helpful or insightful or give an idea of what its really about. I feel voices carry something quite difficult to match in written words.
Your grandfather sounds like a great man, to be so missed and so loved. I wonder if Buddha is the right person to be wondering about? Maybe you should ask yourself what your grandfather would say to you on this subject? Both now, and to the 13 year old boy who was scared to see his loved one dying. I bet he would not have even a drop of anger for you, if anything, compassion would be the only thing he'd have for both you and the boy.
A teacher once told me that on the path of life, we often come upon a decision point. At that point, there are two paths. One is love, and one is fear. If we choose fear, we regret. If we choose love, then we do not regret. All of us choose fear time and time again, until we have the courage to choose the love. There is no shame in it, we all make decisions we regret!
Now though, in the present moment, we have the opportunity to choose to love ourselves, and maybe its time you did.
With kindness,
Matt
a bit direct perhaps, but the statement: "The earth is round" can only be rude to someone who though it wasn't...
Shrug. I said them with warm intent.
With coolness,
Matt
Buddhism doesn't encourage proselytizing. Except for the odd nutjob fanatic Buddhist, you won't find us trying to convert you. You're more likely to find a Catholic stopping by HERE trying to convert US. :buck:
If you feel drawn to Buddhism you CAN certainly incorporate it into your life while maintaining your faith. The Buddha's teachings were simply on the cause of suffering and how to end it, and these have been TURNED INTO a religion over time. Really, what he taught was more psychology than religion. You can leave the cultural baggage at the door and take what helps you.
I would strongly suggest the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. It might even be available at your library if you'd rather not purchase it. It's written by a Buddhist but it's a highly-recommended book by people of all faiths. There's a bit of reincarnation crap, but very little, and you can just nod and smile at those parts and move right along to what's more helpful.
Meditation isn't an end-goal but the practice itself; if our minds weren't all going everywhere and racing at 100 miles per hour, there would be no need to meditate in the first place. :buck:
I would highly recommend this video to look at what meditation actually is and how to go about it: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-3529760254352711693#
I had/have similar anxiety issues. In about 1985 I explained my issues to a Tibetan master, and he told me not to meditate too much. With this much going on, there may be things that come up that are distressing if you meditate too much. I honestly suggest finding a good "master" to discuss these things with to decide what type and how much meditation would be good for you.
What about volunteering in a home for the elderly, or maybe even a hospice? There are several repetitive prayers that might work in such a context, while you're working with/in a situation in which you can focus on that type of work. "Om mani padme hung" or even "Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me". Yes, nursing homes and hospices can be scary places, but if you do repetitive prayer while you're doing that, it might work out ok.
if your fear of death is debilitating, then you should speak with a counselor.
However, if the thought of death is scary but not overwhelming, you could try working with the emotion. For example, when the fear arises, you can think, "Since death is a reality I will one day face, I will use my life to cultivate wisdom, compassion and service".
Dwell on this positive resolve until it becomes strong in your mind. Working with our emotions is a powerful form of meditation.
Well wishes,
P
I really do thank everyone who has talked to me on this thread, and I respect and thank every one of you.
Your suffering is apparent and my heart goes out to you. The good news is that you can use this suffering to develop psycho/spiritually. It is juicy and full of precious opportunity.
How can you use it? You can contemplate the First Noble Truth through your suffering. You can see for yourself the truth in this teaching.
You can also practice what FoibleFull was describing (Pema Chodron is a great teacher and I'm sure you'd benefit greatly from reading her). Our natural inclination when we experience the suffering that comes from negative emotions like fear and guilt is to do one of two things; run from the emotions by distracting ourselves with something else, or wallow in the emotions, making them bigger and more important than they actually are in reality. Both of these reactions are unskillful and result in further suffering.
The best way to manage these emotions is to see them for what they really are and use them to develop understanding, wisdom, and skillful practice.
Seeing them for what they are entails understanding that they are impermanent states of mind, they have the potential to cause you suffering, and they are not 'yours' or 'you'. They are simply objects of the mind that have arisen due to previous causes ( like past experiences, memories, unskillful reactions and so forth). They arise and pass away naturally unless we deliberately hold on to them, grasp at them, by wallowing in them or ignoring them by distracting ourselves (or usually a combination of the two). If we allow nature to take its course they will arise and pass away in due course. While they are present it's wise to use them for our practice.
Once you start seeing these negative states of mind more clearly and realistically, you can relax into them without identifying with them and making them yours. You can calm the mind which makes it possible to step outside of the 'self' and look at them in a more objective and dispassionate way. Once you do this you will begin to see how the mind creates all sorts of false beliefs about them and makes them much bigger and more important than they actually are in reality.
Once you've cut these negative mind states down to a more realistic and manageable size your suffering will decrease and your understanding, wisdom, and peace of mind will increase.
By the way, many nurses in palliative care can tell you that it is common for dying people to wait until their families and other loved ones leave the room (for example, for coffee breaks during the death watch) to die. I don't know why this is but I can think of a few reasons. Not visiting your grandfather in the hospital when he was dying is a much bigger deal in your mind than it actually is in reality. I think it's safe to say that your grandfather understood your reasons for not visiting and was most likely more concerned for your emotional well being than for his own. After all, you were a child, Richard. For goodness sake, give yourself a break. You can let it go now. You don't have to suffer over it anymore. Your grandfather wants you to be happy and he definitely doesn't want to be the cause of your suffering. You can honour him by letting it go and allowing yourself to heal and find true, lasting happiness. And no one deserves it more.
happiness. And no one deserves it more.
I just think that is so well put that it deserves repeating.
Perhaps this will vanquish your fear of death:
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain
.
"I'm not afraid of dying; I just don't want to be there when it happens....."
Having considered this statement over a number of years, I have come to the conclusion that. much as I can fully equate with his reasoning and agree with it, on a mundane level, in Meditative "Buddhist" terms - I most certainly DO want to 'be there' when my time to die, arrives.....
How could it be done "properly" when there's clearly a fear or at least some aversion to it still?
I would suggest that it can be done "properly" either by progressive attempts at approximation and coping, that is, approximate death, develop coping mechanisms, approximate death more closely, develop better coping mechanisms, and so on, until the fear/aversion is more manageable.
My perception (I could be wrong) is that Richard is working with some serious anxiety here, and there are Buddhist techniques that can be brought to bear on that. The exact technique is of course up to Richard to develop and utilize. The only example I can offer is my own- I started having similar anxiety attacks and fears of death when I was 23, and they were terrifying at the time. I am now 58, and I am much more able to sit still and just observe anxiety attacks or deeply depressive sensations rather than react unskilfully to them. Hopefully Richard will be able to find some type of technique from the Buddhist tradition (or wherever) to react more "properly", that is, "skilfully", and reach a more comfortable subjective space.
I may be misunderstanding your question, but it's like the Buddhist metaphor of a lotus growing out of mud or poop. We start from where we are. To face death "properly", we develop coping mechanisms from where we are. There is no other way. The fear and aversion are real, and it's where we all are, more or less. We utilize difficult circumstances to develop strategies for facing death "properly". We have to start from where we are, because it's impossible to start from somewhere else.
Did I misunderstand your question?
Are you suggesting that because I said "Hopefully we don't have to do it all over again" that therefore I fear or have aversion towards death? Or am I missing something?
And there's nothing inconsistent with fear and aversion being present together with equanimity when facing the question of death. This is the definition of courage- being able to maintain relative equanimity when fear and aversion are present. It's my understanding that this is what true Buddhist striving is about- it's not that fear or aversion need to be eliminated, it's just that they need to be dealt with in a state of relative equanimity.
But, eventually, once you practice observing it and you progress on your path, fear will not be present anymore, it will have vanish.
It's not that it "need" to be eliminated or not, you don't try to eliminate it, but it just happen naturally by itself as a result of your practice, and realizing the absurdity of it.
I think a quote from Buddha I found which may help me, and one which actuall made sense to me is this:
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”
have you ever read 'dune' by Frank Herbert????
The litany against fear is an incantation used by the Bene Gesserit throughout the series to focus their minds and calm themselves in times of peril. The litany is as follows:
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
Maybe this will help you
Namaste,
I enjoyed this very much, and put it on paper next to my bed, which I now see every morning, and night.
Along with this, which I found by accident...
Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely.
Buddha
Thank you for posting this. I've recently become keenly interested in Twain as a person and as a writer. This particular quote is just lovely on multiple levels.