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Depression
I've been out of commission lately in more ways than one. I mentioned on here about a month ago that my girlfriend broke up with me. We had talked on numerous occasions about spending the rest of our lives together. Everything seemed perfect, and I planned on proposing by the end of the year.
I even bantered with people on here about how wonderful the attachment feeling was, and dismissed all objections to it.
Well, the woman I considered my future wife dumped me, said she had NEVER really loved me, and within a few weeks, was seeing another man. None of this was prompted by anything on my part, which she acknowledged. She simply didn't share the same feelings. When I tried to get back together, I was rebuffed by her friend who spoke on her behalf, calling me a leech, and saying I should never talk to her again.
I was devastated beyond anything I had felt before. And since the break-up, I've been depressed. And it's just not going away. Over a month has passed, I've gone back to work, and have spent plenty of times with friends. But I'll feel fine for a while, and then immediately lose all interest in whatever activity I'm doing. I'll withdraw emotionally and socially, and just want to be left alone by everyone for fear of breaking down in front of them.
It's an awful feeling. I suffered from minor depression back in high school for at least a year or two, but I gratefully managed to pull myself out of it on my own. I feel like I've returned to that same state back then of helplessness and an overall empty feeling.
The only redeeming aspect of this awful experience has been that it has made me a much better worker at my job. My lack of cheer and general crudeness has made me a surprisingly effective manager at work with great results.
But it's hardly worth it. I wonder if I don't suffer from depression. And not just of a 'having the blues' variety. I have numerous family members who suffer from clinical depression, and I know of several ancestors who either did or exhibited all the qualities of it. But I don't know how to know for sure. I'm very cautious about telling any of this to close family because I fear they would overreact. Also, I don't want to look foolish by seeking serious help when it could just be a phase that passes within a matter of weeks from now.
I've contemplated seeking out a neutral figure like a priest, despite my lack of religiosity. I have deep suspicions towards psychologists, so that's something I won't consider until I've exhausted every other option.
Don't worry. I'm at no risk of hurting myself. I have no feelings of self-loathing or worthlessness. My self-esteem is as normal as ever.
I have many friends, but none of whom I feel comfortable talking to about this. I put on such a cheery, happy, care-free, joke-cracking demeanor at all times. They would be shocked to know that it's a very shallow veneer.
I even bantered with people on here about how wonderful the attachment feeling was, and dismissed all objections to it.
Well, the woman I considered my future wife dumped me, said she had NEVER really loved me, and within a few weeks, was seeing another man. None of this was prompted by anything on my part, which she acknowledged. She simply didn't share the same feelings. When I tried to get back together, I was rebuffed by her friend who spoke on her behalf, calling me a leech, and saying I should never talk to her again.
I was devastated beyond anything I had felt before. And since the break-up, I've been depressed. And it's just not going away. Over a month has passed, I've gone back to work, and have spent plenty of times with friends. But I'll feel fine for a while, and then immediately lose all interest in whatever activity I'm doing. I'll withdraw emotionally and socially, and just want to be left alone by everyone for fear of breaking down in front of them.
It's an awful feeling. I suffered from minor depression back in high school for at least a year or two, but I gratefully managed to pull myself out of it on my own. I feel like I've returned to that same state back then of helplessness and an overall empty feeling.
The only redeeming aspect of this awful experience has been that it has made me a much better worker at my job. My lack of cheer and general crudeness has made me a surprisingly effective manager at work with great results.
But it's hardly worth it. I wonder if I don't suffer from depression. And not just of a 'having the blues' variety. I have numerous family members who suffer from clinical depression, and I know of several ancestors who either did or exhibited all the qualities of it. But I don't know how to know for sure. I'm very cautious about telling any of this to close family because I fear they would overreact. Also, I don't want to look foolish by seeking serious help when it could just be a phase that passes within a matter of weeks from now.
I've contemplated seeking out a neutral figure like a priest, despite my lack of religiosity. I have deep suspicions towards psychologists, so that's something I won't consider until I've exhausted every other option.
Don't worry. I'm at no risk of hurting myself. I have no feelings of self-loathing or worthlessness. My self-esteem is as normal as ever.
I have many friends, but none of whom I feel comfortable talking to about this. I put on such a cheery, happy, care-free, joke-cracking demeanor at all times. They would be shocked to know that it's a very shallow veneer.
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Comments
My condolences on the loss you've suffered, it is never easy to lose someone you love. It seems like there are several aspects of what is in front of you that could be sucking away your energy, leaving you a shell... empty of joy.
The first is obviously her. I wonder how she could never have loved you and you not notice. That just seems weird. You seem in-tune at least enough to feel love. My guess is she is just saying that to sever the cord that connects you... and although the method is crappy, it seems to be what she wants. It sucks, but it is. You might fight to not accept what is, which makes your brain hurt. Better to accept what is and scream from the pain of it. It'll heal.
The next is the loss of all of the dreams you had with her in them. Now, they will never come true. It also sucks, but it is the way of life. This is one of the reasons attachments are so crappy... when the attachment doesn't manifest in the way we want, we suffer a lot. I imagine that the loss of the dreams might be where most of the energy is going... most of the suffering sounds like it is springing forward from here, based off your post. You have to let them die, and let yourself grieve them. I know they seemed almost alive, almost certain, and yet here you are... forced into a life where they will not manifest. Its terrible, and I'm really sorry its this way, but its also why attachments are things to avoid.
Finally, I wonder if there is a loss of security you might be experiencing. This could also turn your mind in on itself, as you try to pick out all of the traits that "pushed her away" or whatever. Some people do this, some don't, but there is usually not much good fruit that will come of it. If you find yourself seeking for your faults that would make you unworthy, try metta practice on yourself. You are smart, loyal and a good person, and worth honest and direct love. We all have our weak spots, and if she was repelled by yours, then you two were not good for each other. Relationship advice is usually unhelpful, so I won't make much suggestion in regards to that. I only hope you can see that when people are actually right for each other, this kind of thing does not happen. Better to heal your self-esteem now then 15 years from now.
Its possible you have a biological depression, but I hope you hesitate before making that diagnoses of yourself. You are going through a grieving period, and its important to give yourself room to do it right. I really feel that if you spend some time working through each of the points I made above, looking inward at how you're approaching your loss, grieving them properly and letting them go, soon enough you'll feel right as rain.
Good luck.
With warmth,
Matt
The recurrent bouts of suffering are normal and not a sign of depression. They will gradually lessen and eventually disappear.
I'm not being very touchy feely about this, but I thought you would appreciate a blunt answer.
If you want to get a look at the physiological basis for your current experience, read "Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love", by the anthropologist Helen Fisher.
Thank you very much, both of you. Bluntness is what I've been looking for, and why I've been avoiding asking friends and family who are too biased and try to just be overly-motivational (the 'she doesn't know what she's missing' garbage).
Fortunately, this has not been the case. Perhaps it speaks to an invincible arrogance, but I never really looked for what 'pushed her away.'
I happen to agree with you in that she probably did have feelings, but in order to get both of us to move on quicker, she said that she never had those feelings. "I wanted to make you feel better" in her words. True or not, it really made things much worse since it tainted all my memories of her. It's like there is an asterisk next to every fond memory that says 'Well it was just a lie.'
We'll see as time goes by. I'd like to think that a couple weeks of full-time work will get it out of my system.
I will keep the book suggestion in mind, but not surprisingly, poetry, love songs, sappy movies, or books about romance have little appeal right now.
Welcome to samsara. I know this can be painful. Once had a girlfriend who didn't just dump me, but also robbed me, when my first company went bankrupt. Always remember: this shall pass, too.
Cheers, Thomas
She dumped you a month ago and you're planning on having it out of your system in two more weeks? A total of six weeks? Dude, you wanted to marry her. Given the degree of your attachment and the abruptness with which she ended it, I'd guess closer to six months for the bouts of sadness to taper off. The angry feelings will probably last longer. Of course this varies a lot from person to person, but getting it "out of your system" in six weeks sounds wildly optimistic to me.
Understood. I may be the only person in the world who would think that a book on brain structure and chemistry would be an appropriate book recommendation to someone who had just broken up with his girlfriend. :-)
Knight of Buddha might be the only one in the world who would consider a book on brain structure and chemistry to be romantic.
KoB, baby! Where ya been all my life?!
Anytime we lose a resource (and a potential partner is one such resource), our evolutionary body-mind complex is goes into damage control-mode. Perhaps we begin ruminating about getting back what we had in the past (churning up old memories and obsessing over the void in our life and how to fill it again) while trying to fend off a frightening future ("What if there's something wrong with me that made her drop me like an old handbag? What if I'm alone forever?")
For now, notice when your mind is ruminating and try not to get caught up in it. It's simply the body-mind complex attempting to actuate you to fix a perceived problem. The trouble is, this is not a problem that can be fized by ruminating. Accept your feelings of loss without repressing, ignoring or feeding them with ruminative thought patterns. Adopt a nonreactive attitude whenever ruminative patterns come up. They will eventually pass. Go about your daily life. You may find your everyday activity will draw you out of your grief eventually. Time heals all wounds and, as my dad used to say, "rejection helps you develop some character."
Take it from me this is why women are not the refuge. The buddha, dharma, and sangha is the refuge. That's what everyone was trying to say about attachment.
Check in here and everywhere else you can get support ie friendly encouragement. You are welcome to PM me. When depression hits the energy flow is affected. For some reason at these times the heart energy isn't flowing right and our playful touch is affected. Also dark thinking comes up interest declines and the world seems to be closing in on you. Its all just thinking. Like sleep depression has a low point and then the energy springs back. Like sleep and wakefulness. Have confidence in your own mind. Its truth and courage and basic goodness. A goodness you can find in meditation that goes beyond ordinary notions of who and what you are; beyond ordinary good and bad. That goodness lets you smell a good smell or taste a good taste or see a bright color. Your birthright. Keep busy to keep the energy up. Be kind and gentle and honest. Don't spin out on negative thinking. Just note: "I don't feel good" which is to say be mindful of what is rather than mentally blow it up into something else by pushing your own buttons. Maybe pick up a book by Pema Chodron or Trungpa Rinpoche as both these people have direct realization of how to practice when depressed.
I know I'll have to see her again in the near future. We'll still go to the same school and it's inevitable that we'll cross paths. I know almost for a fact that she'll ignore me in public, which bothers me immensely for some reason. I have hypothetical conversations in my head with her imagining a scenario in which she tries ignoring me..."At least one of us is civil...How very Christian of you!...At least I can be mature about it..." I preoccupy myself more than I should with what perfect, spiteful thing that would just really hit home and make her feel guilty for this misery. None of it is productive, I acknowledge, and I need to stop it.
Just when I think I'm starting to forget about her, something comes up that reminds me of the pain: I have to drive through her town, I hear her favorite song on the radio, ANY country music (which we always listened to), jewelry, cards, etc. I removed every trace I could of her from my life including any presents, pictures, and even online correspondence and social networking contacts. I've gone to Herculean lengths to purge my memories of her, but the sadness strikes at truly absurd reminders.
Maybe the most ridiculous example was when I was toying with a GPS the other day and saw on the map a small park by the lake where I had taken her and given her the first and only piece of jewelry I ever bought for her. So the mere satellite image of a place we had once visited was enough to ruin my mood.
I have this nagging thought process that goes on every time I experience a "first." First time I go here or there since she left me, first time I heard this song/saw that movie/seen that relative/visited this restaurant/etc....since she left me. I seem to be reacting to this like others would a death in the family.
Last year, my contentedness with being single was almost a matter of pride for me. Those poor souls who wasted so much mental energy on hopeless causes and bad romance, fretting over women who couldn't possibly make them happy. From my high perch, I tut-tutted the mere mortals who forsook happiness in the pursuit of fleeting emotions and fantasies. Those same "mortals" were the ones I was asking advice from in abject defeat last month.
When I occasionally feel in a good mood and look at all this as objectively as possible, I see that my sadness is NOT over the lost future, the reduced bank account, the questionable integrity of it all, or even the friendships beyond repair, but it's that my mind has nothing to preoccupy itself with.
Well over 6 months were devoted to wooing and courting this girl. I was persistent in spite of initial failures and miraculously started a wonderful relationship. Those same mental energies of impression immediately switched to retention and I became singly devoted and almost absurdly loyal (refusing to even look at attractive girls and intentionally averting my eyes). And so I think in my mind: now what? What's the quest? Where's the chase? The meticulous planning? The ingenious romancing? It's nowhere. 6 months of scheming and all of the sudden, no comforting thoughts when I go to sleep at night.
There's not a woman on the radar that I even have remote interest in. I tell myself that if there was, then this would all quickly pass as my mind absorbs itself in a new challenge, and She becomes nothing more than a memory. Maybe. Maybe not.
So what's the prescription? I need to find some mentally exhausting project to absorb myself in. Romance? Nothing anytime soon. Work? Well there's plenty of creative planning involved, but it basically ends at the end of the work day, and I don't fall asleep at night strategizing about it. I'm thinking writing might be the cure. Not writing about this nonsense of course, but a few book ideas I've toyed with for years. It might finally be a perfect opportunity to really delve into one and complete it.
If any of you actually read this whole post, my condolences, apologies, and kudos. I was originally only going to write a paragraph this afternoon. You have all been exceedingly helpful in your advice and patient with my rambling.
I think thats a bonafide insight! I would keep busy mind you.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Far worse than what I went through. I can't imagine going through that.
I'm not sure about your last line though. Women are quite the refuge, though it couldn't hurt to have several refuges just in case. I jokingly told my friend the other day who shares my affinity as a financial whiz that, "Unlike women, at least my money won't leave me without my express approval."
Anyway, staying busy is the key. But now I dread weekends and days off. I'll have to work on something this week to have ready to fill any down time.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It is known to have happened to some people.
For a combination of the two, follow these instructions: earn a lot of money, get a young and greedy girlfriend, marry her, then wait for her to file for divorce: ...e voilà! Woman gone, money gone.
:cool: Cheers, Thomas
I'm sorry to hear about your situation.
I understand how you feel, but psychologists, psychiatrists and other medical and allied health professionals are there to help you. They are just ordinary people like you or I. I'm married to one, so I know first hand. They're also not immune from suffering from depression themselves.
The good thing about a psychologist, psychiatrist or general medical practitioner is that they are qualified to not only diagnose depression but can offer a course of treatment. If you have any fears with regards to a course of treatment then its best to talk to your medical professional about it. Its not unusual to receive both medical (drug) and talk (cognitive therapy) as a two-pronged approach for dealing with depression. If you are a meditator, there have been a number of research reports into the efficacy of mindfulness meditation as a co-treatment for people with depression.
My advice to you is not to take depression too lightly. It can be a life-threatening condition. For more information: http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?
kind regards
Ben
When my girlfriend first broke up with me, of course I was crushed. I spent a few days hashing it out with friends and within a week, was emotionally alright. But many weeks after I reached a sort of peace with the whole business, I think I'm as worse off as I was when it all started. Rather than measuring how long I go without emoting in weeks, it's days...or less than that.
My full time job, which thankfully provided me with a distraction for most of the day, does not have the same affect as when it started. Now, even at work, I find myself in a mentally distraught state trying to hold myself together.
I'm committed myself to finding help from a neutral party this weekend. I'm going to talk to my family's parish priest, who doesn't really know me. I can't continue living my life concerning myself over the past and what will never be, and I have to get a grip on myself.
*Also, there is a young woman I met recently who I will most likely be going out to dinner with in the next week or two. I owe it to myself and her not to be preoccupied with a previous relationship, and only be able to focus on her.
I get the feeling that you want these feelings to disappear, you want to erradicate these feelings.
The key is to work on being okay to feel the way you feel, whatever you are feeling. sit with the feelings that you have and realize that you can be okay, no matter how intense the feeling gets, the feeling can stay for as long as they want to and you will be okay with this.
When you do this, eventually the feelings will dissipate.
This is the way to face and deal with emotions.
If you try to kill the feelings, eventually it will work, you wont notice them anymore. But you didn't really kill them, you just repressed them. They will keep on weighting on your subconscient and it will be a baggage that you will carry with you. They will still influence your thoughts, leading to depressions etc... Until the day, many years later, you have so many of these baggages that you explode, and you have no idea how or why you exploded (nervous breakdown). Or until the day you sit down and begin to face each and everyone of these repressed feelings.
hope this help
Humor aside, I've been through this and I've watched other guys go through it, and this is completely normal. If you weren't taking this hard I would question whether you were serious about marrying her. It takes a powerful bond to overcome our selfishness and laziness and motivate us to make the effort necessary to make a relationship work. If the relationship ends abruptly the bond is still there and it's still powerful. Rather than view this as something wrong with you, I view it as the guarantee of your sincerity. Although next time you might want to mix a little caution in with your sincerity.
All phenomena come into being because of causes and conditions. As long as the causes and conditions continue, the suffering will continue. In the long run, the best thing you can to is be mindful and observant. It won't make the experience any less painful, but you'll learn something about yourself.
Sincerely, I wish you the best of luck with that. Don't kick yourself too hard if it doesn't work out the way you think it should.
I have dealt with depression much of my adult life. Buddhism and specifically mindfulness has quite frankly ended that part of my life. Here is part of a post I made some time bck regarding depression and a lady who wanted to die:
There are many reasons we stay and repond to to things with depression. It's like a well used rut in our brain. Our brain remembers a similar past event and again attempts to cope with it in the same fashion. If our past way of dealing with certain issues is to withdrawl and become depressed. we will do it again and again and again. Also the inherent way we deal with problems is to ruminate over them in an effort to breakdown and understand our condition. So in effect we constantly go over and over this negative aspect of ourselves. It just worsens and drives the depression deeper. An extremely good audio book (I would HIGHLY recommend this to your friend) is The Mindful Way through Depression. (I know Dharmacraft sells this http://www.dharmacrafts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? ) One of the main authors is Kabat-Zinn. The ideas here are rooted in Buddhist philosophy and good psychology but one not need to be a Buddhist to benefit from it. In fact you wouldn't know some of the principles are Buddhist unless you were Buddhist. I have had a bad history with depression and a father who committed suicide and believe me when I say she not only needs to do the first step to initially bring up her mood (simple medication) she needs to take this further and shift her perspective. Doing these things will have a profound change for her".
My depression could grip me for weeks, I would be moody, withdrawn, I would want to sleep and nothing I would do seemed to help. I hated the feeling and its control over me. Having loving kindness for yourself and those that have harmed you can go a long way. Metta practice can be of great benefit to you, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/buddharakkhita/wheel365.html
Now I maintain mindfullness, especially in regards to my feelings. If I find myself going down that depression path, I recognize it, sit with it let it be and then let it go. It has become an aggregate, not an all consuming mental fire. I think my recognition of it starting is something I didn't have a good grasp on it before. Now with my practice I am more in tune with what arises in my mind and as such I can deal with it fairly quickly, reconize it for what it is and be done with it. Before, it just seemed to take hold of my me, would overwhelm me and then I would start some of my same old habitual patterns of reacting; this only worsened my situation. My best to you, it is no way to live.
Yours in the Dharma,
Todd
1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html
It is to be hoped that the person to whom you talk will allow you a safe space in which to rage, weep, rationalise, avoid, deny, swear and be true to the moment. That is the point of such an encounter. That he is a priest is only incidental: my own dearest and most powerful support was a Catholic priest who had enough humanity and wisdom to give me just such a space.
You write (and have written) of your stoicism and it has often seemed (and been recognised by me LOL) as arrogant. Pride, as the Preacher tells us, comes before a great fall. At least, when we are in the gutter, we can look up at the stars. The true stoic is old: just look at Boethius or Marcus Aurelius. They had to go through terrible times and saw them as 'training'. They recognised what we call the First and Second Noble Truths, the fact of and origins of suffering. It took them long lives to come to the peace and equanimity which they put into their writings.
As one who has lost a person whom I loved (and still love), and who will remain a true source of joy and sorrow, I can tell you that the pain is formative. It can be transformative, softening and gentling us. Let the tears flow. Channel your anger into creativity (my own pain has transformed my garden over the past decade).
Do not be too hard on yourself and, at all costs, recognise and transform any bitterness you may be holding on to towards any other person, particularly towards her whom you loved. In this, meditation (a vital component of a good stoic's daily life) can become medication.
My warmest thoughts are with you at this hard time, my friend.
I couldn't agree with you more. Stoicism has always been an ideal for me (I love reading about the Ancients like Marcus Aurelius, Epaminondas, and others who embodied that ideal). I've tended to look at them in the past as kindred spirits because I typically stay even tempered, patient, and dispassionate. That's well and dandy when life is good, but my experience with suffering has been fairly limited in life. It is rather silly of me to bestow such a title on myself.
I think in time, the more I view this episode as "training" and a learning experience, the better off I will be.
1) The whole lying business. I don't know why people feel the need to lie about how they feel towards someone. Presuming she's telling the truth when she says "I never loved you," why get into a relationship at all, and especially hint at marriage, and waste my time?
2) Another lie that I very recently learned about. Among the very few reasons she listed for breaking up with me, one was my future career with the government and military as an interpreter. It seemed reasonable at the time when she said that it would be too much stress to be away from me for so long and to be so worried about me. I could understand that. What I can't understand is that she is now dating another man...in the exact same profession as me. Some lies are subtle, but that one is almost comical I must admit. And it really makes me think less of her.
Maybe it doesn't make any difference if I forgive her. Maybe it's best I just forget the past 9 months ever happened at all.
-Every step you are going through is moving you forwards. Although you may not be where you want to be- you will get there- and all these emotions that you experienced will only make you stronger. Pain doesn't necessarily just diminish with time- I've experienced it more as a process...coming and going with highs and lows. Yet I truly believe that if you are patient with all of your emotions you are moving forward.
"Something else I've really been avoiding in all of this is forgiveness. I can't say I really hold a grudge against the woman. I certainly don't hate her. But the betrayal I feel is unsettling."
-I was also dumped (by someone with whom I was in a four year relationship with)....in September...and I still consider myself to be healing. Yet he has moved on, has a new girlfriend, the whole deal. I also struggle with the fact that I don't hate him yet feel bitter towards him. I have been trying to practice compassion and understand that he doesn't feel deeply the same way that I feel things. Although this allowed him to move on more quickly, it also holds him back from feeling the good things in life deeply. For this, I can only hope that he will learn to appreciate everything in life and treat others kindly.
I have also taken the break up as an opportunity to practice non-attachment. I have been concentrating on myself as well as helping others, being kind and refraining from gossip.
I hope that something I said will be able to help you! Keep your head up- you seem to have a wonderful mind that will guide you through your pain.