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Massive oil spill

shanyinshanyin Novice YoginSault Ontario Veteran
edited July 2010 in Buddhism Today
You know what I'm talking about. Unintentional but devastating.

Bad Kamma?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    expand the question.
    For whom?
  • JanineJanine
    edited June 2010
    I think so,

    If we abuse the Earth and it's resources, we should expect some comeback at some point.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    'at some point'...? you don't think it's already been happening with climate change....?
  • JanineJanine
    edited June 2010
    I should have phrased differently, time is irrelevant.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    I'd still like the OP to clarify. there is the mistaken belief that Kamma is some kind of retribution or judgement wreaking havoc and leaving further misery and desolation in its wake.
    It's nothing of the kind.
    That's why I seek expansion on the question.....

    Thanks! :)
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Today we cry, tomorrow we forget.

    And hop the the Toyota giantinormous to drive the 2 km between our home and the grocery store; like we had nothing to do with it.

    This is the state of the manklind today, appreciate how powerful greed is...

    but for the one second that we cried, we can imagine how the world would be if man would one day be liberated from it's self made prison.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I think as individuals mindfulness of karma from this day forward could help. At least we see our part. So you need to get to the store? Well thats probably true as you don't have a horse, you don't know how to take care of one, your hypothetical horse can no longer trot into town to the grocery in this modern age. No vegetable garden big enough to feed you all year. This is samsara and part of it is that we don't have all the choices we would like to have. Ok we are stuck with the gigantomobile but lets look at what we DO have control of? What are we buying? What is it packaged in? Is it the type of food that will make us healthy for a long time practicing? I mean sometimes you have to have a treat too. Are the eggs free range? You do have some control! Is it local (I mean not a nazi about that sometimes we like some imports). Come to think of it what about supporting the tomato stand in town and buying some things if its affordable or farmers market. I don't feel comfortable with the ACME farm and I love to support local farmers. Organically grown? That means no pesticides which are manufactured using petrochemicals.. Depends on if its in the budget. Well the pharmaceuticals I need to be heallthy are made using petrochemicals but we are in samsara and that is a necessary evil. Hmmm I can be friendly to the cashier and smile and chit chat with the others in line.. Hmmm what else do I need to do while I'm out so I don't have to drive around again so soon? (Thats just what I thought of for mindfulness.... your own results may vary :D )
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited June 2010
    yea, bad kamma
    REAL BAD
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Pietro Pumokin wrote: »
    yea, bad kamma
    REAL BAD
    Yeah, but why should people take any heat when they can blame evrything on the "politicians?"

    It's disgusting how we do that.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    As far as I understand, the only ones suffering are plants, animals and maybe BP and it's stockists pockets - which should be voluminous enough to take it.
    Oh, and then it might not be pleasant to take a swim along the hit shores - but that's hardly a great loss. There's plenty of places to go swimming.
    It can hardly be human karma causing this, and I've never heard about birds and other sea-living and sea-faring creatures having a mutual, shared karma.
    I've never heard about shared karma between stockists. Or a company-karma.
    This is only karma so far as action-reaction goes on a most primitive level: some action somewhere, somehow caused the leak.
    Shit happens.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Ficus_religiosa wrote: »
    It can hardly be human karma causing this, and I've never heard about birds and other sea-living and sea-faring creatures having a mutual, shared karma.
    seriously?

    100 years of untamed human greed resulted into this.
    the only reason they went down there to drill a hole was to feed the greed.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Yea seriously. Humans do a lot of despicable things, and humanity as a whole is responsible for unimaginable amounts of bad karma. In that context the reaction "oil spill" which harms no humans, but a lot of innocent animals and plants, seems just waay off.
  • thesadclownthesadclown
    edited June 2010
    Why not just blame it on poor management of the oil well, or inadequate engineering of the safety devices? Of course the indirect, and perhaps ultimate cause is that we use oil, and so use means to extract it, but does that mean we are experiencing good Karma for all of the wells that don't have problems? I can't help but feel that applying a term like karma to this situation is only accomplishing an obsfucation of the real causes, or at least forcing us to pass our reasoning about it through unnecessary hoops.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I can't help but feel that applying a term like karma to this situation is only accomplishing an obsfucation of the real causes, or at least forcing us to pass our reasoning about it through unnecessary hoops.

    :uphand:
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I would just like to interrupt this thread for a moment to wish everyone a happy World Ocean Day (yes, it really is World Ocean Day today!). Courtesy of British Petroleum.

    Just one question, Ficus: You seem to think the oil spill is unimportant ("the only ones suffering are plants, animals and maybe BP and it's stockists pockets "). How long do you think humanity would last if the oceans become dead, toxic wastelands?

    Palzang
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Just one question, Ficus: You seem to think the oil spill is unimportant ("the only ones suffering are plants, animals and maybe BP and it's stockists pockets "). How long do you think humanity would last if the oceans become dead, toxic wastelands?

    I think you missed my point. Of course it's bad that animals and plants suffer. The "only" is not meant as a demeanor of those organisms, but as a divider.
    Karma will hit the human being responsible for an action, not all kinds of innocent, undeserving animals. Furthermore this oil spill may be some of the worst yet, but it's not the sign of an apocalypse.This is one oil spill.
    Of course some mistake of some kind must've happened somewhere, human or mechanical. But to claim it to be an effect of karma seems to be stretching the limits of the concept a bit too much (other than strictly mistake = error occurring).

    Please do not think I don't take this seriously. I get uneasy whenever I see how oil stream out in enormous quantities.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Ficus_religiosa wrote: »
    As far as I understand, the only ones suffering are plants, animals and maybe BP and it's stockists pockets

    It's not readily apparent, but also many of the people that make a living from marine businesses that operate (or used to operate) in these ocean waters are being affected also. I work in the marine industry in Florida and I know charter boat captains on the west coast that are now having trouble paying their mortgages because the business that they used to have was wiped out by the oil spill. When someone can't pay their mortgage anymore, there is usually suffering involved. Not to mention all the people that work in the tourism industry that have lost significant amounts of business because of this. Which is really not a big deal for a corporation to lose some business, but when someone loses their job because the company that they work for is not doing as well, that is a big deal for that person that lost their job.

    As far as karma goes, it most certainly would be bad for the people in charge of that rig if the content of this article turns out to be true. It claims that they knowingly cut corners with regards to safety, knew of problems with the rig but didn't do anything about it, etc.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    I'm sorry to hear about that.
    As far as karma goes, it most certainly would be bad for the people in charge of that rig if the content of this article turns out to be true. It claims that they knowingly cut corners with regards to safety, knew of problems with the rig but didn't do anything about it, etc.

    Yea, but then it's still the responsible persons karma, and not a collective, human karma.
    I do not like the idea, that a few persons' bad karma (each of them not doing their job) can cause so much pain for so many innocents.. Can that really be the case?
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited June 2010
    shanyin wrote: »
    You know what I'm talking about. Unintentional but devastating.

    Bad Kamma?

    It's bad karma when you take human error into consideration. I guess this oil spill is a punch in the face for those petrol corporations who are driven only by greed and the desire to make profit.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Yea, but then it's still the responsible persons karma, and not a collective, human karma.
    I do not like the idea, that a few persons' bad karma (each of them not doing their job) can cause so much pain for so many innocents.. Can that really be the case?
    I think one could easily argue that this disaster is an effect of the greed driven consumerist society that exists in the US. But, as far as this disaster having a collective karmic cause, I don't know, I think that is a bit of a stretch. But, wikipedia has a really interesting section about this very topic. I'll post it below.:)

    Is there collective or national karma?

    Other modern Buddhists have sought to formulate theories of group, collective and national karma which are not found in traditional Buddhist thinking. The earliest recorded instance of this occurred in 1925, when a member of the Maha Bodhi named Sheo Narain published an article entitled "Karmic Law" in which he invited Buddhist scholars to explore the question of whether an individual is "responsible not only for his individual actions in his past life but also for past communal deeds."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-89">[90]</sup>

    As one scholar writes, "a systematic concept of group karma was in no sense operative in early Theravada" or other schools based on the early sutras. "Instead," he writes, "the repeated emphasis in the canonical discussions of karma is on the individual as heir to his own deeds. It is only in this century, then, that one finds a conscious effort to split with this tradition."

    Buddhism does not deny that the actions taken by one generation of the citizens of a given country will have effects on later generations, for example. However, as noted above, all effects of actions are not karmic effects. Karmic effects impinge only on the mindstreams of those sentient beings who perform the actions. As Nyanatiloka Mahathera writes, individuals
    should be responsible for the deeds formerly done by this so-called 'same' people. In reality, however, this present people may not consist at all of the karmic heirs of the same individuals who did these bad deeds. According to Buddhism it is of course quite true that anybody who suffers bodily, suffers for his past or present bad deeds. Thus also each of those individuals born within that suffering nation, must, if actually suffering bodily, have done evil somewhere, here or in one of the innunmerable spheres of existence; but he may not have had anything to do with the bad deeds of the so-called nation. We might say that through his evil Karma he was attracted to the miserable condition befitting to him. In short, the term Karma applies, in each instance, only to wholesome and unwholesome volitional activity of the single individual.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-90">[91]</sup>
    Thus, in the traditional view the effects of the actions of other beings—such as the leader of one's country, or prior generations of its citizens—might well serve as causes of suffering for an individual on one level, but not they would not be the karmic causes of the suffering of that individual—those causes would function in congruence with the karmic causes.

    There is, therefore, no "national karma" in traditional Buddhism.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-91">[92]</sup> One "scholar of engaged Buddhism" wrote an article asserting that the "collective karma" of the United States deriving from the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse would potentially "play out for generations,"<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-92">[93]</sup> a view that is not supported by traditional Buddhist views of karma. The effects may well be felt by Americans for generations, but they would not constitute "collective karma."

    "Collective karma" could be spoken of only in certain limited senses in the canonical tradition. In Vasubandu's Karmasiddhiprakarana, among other places, it is asserted that a group of individuals who collaborate and share the same intention for a planned action will all incur karmic merit or demerit based on that action, regardless of which individual actually carries out the action. The fruition of their merit or demerit, however, will not necessarily be experienced by each of the individuals together, and/or at the same time. Likewise, "family karma" is possible only when it refers to karmic dispositions which are similar in each individual family member.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-93">[94]</sup> One scholar points out, "statements concerning group karma . . .are subject to conceptual confusion. It is important to distinguish group karma from what might be termed conjunctive karma, that is, the karmic residues which we experience as a result of the actions of everyone or everything operating casually in the situation, but which are justified by our own accumulated karma. . . the actions of many persons . . .mediate our karma to us. But this is not group karma, for the effect which we experience is justified by our own particular acts or pool of karma, and not by the karmic acts or pool of the group, even though it is mediated by the actions of others."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-94">[95]</sup>
    <sup id="cite_ref-94" class="reference"></sup>
  • KnightofBuddhaKnightofBuddha
    edited June 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    It's bad karma when you take human error into consideration. I guess this oil spill is a punch in the face for those petrol corporations who are driven only by greed and the desire to make profit.

    I don't blame it on anyone. It's Murphy's Law. When you drill a mile or more below the sea level, this sort of thing is bound to happen eventually. It's not BP's fault or Obama's or the governments. Accidents happen.

    One question though...what business isn't driven by profit? Seriously. They simply don't survive without doing so.
  • NomaDBuddhaNomaDBuddha Scalpel wielder :) Bucharest Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    I don't blame it on anyone. It's Murphy's Law. When you drill a mile or more below the sea level, this sort of thing is bound to happen eventually. It's not BP's fault or Obama's or the governments. Accidents happen.

    One question though...what business isn't driven by profit? Seriously. They simply don't survive without doing so.

    Business is driven by profit, but when the desire to gain more and more comes into place, accidents happen. Really bad ones.
    Still, weren't there any engineers , architects, geologists, computer programmers, and so on, to design , to calculate, to simulate, to create something that doesn't turn into a disasters of giant proportions ?

    I know, it's Murphy's Law. If anything is meant to go wrong it will go wrong. But this thing, in some measure, could have been avoided.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    I don't blame it on anyone. It's Murphy's Law. When you drill a mile or more below the sea level, this sort of thing is bound to happen eventually. It's not BP's fault or Obama's or the governments. Accidents happen. .
    accidents happen indeed.

    and what is important is what can we do right now... which should be to fix the mess, clean up, but also that doesn't mean that we shouldn't look back and see what happened to prevent it from happening again...

    learn from our mistakes...

    Blaming isn't all that bad.

    Much of this blame have to fall on the general population shoulder, on the government for allowing BP to drill and endanger our oceans without properly making sure that the risks would be minimal...

    otherwise we will keep building unsafe houses that collapse on the heads of the people living in it, without ever fixing the problem.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited June 2010
    federica wrote: »
    I'd still like the OP to clarify. there is the mistaken belief that Kamma is some kind of retribution or judgement wreaking havoc and leaving further misery and desolation in its wake.
    It's nothing of the kind.
    That's why I seek expansion on the question.....

    Thanks! :)

    Sorry it took me while. I think the reason the question is short as it is was because I wanted to know who gets bad karma for this if any. I could have worded it that way I suppose.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    @Seeker242

    Interesting article. I'm conservative on this - each person his own karma. The Abu Ghraib is (was) bad karma for the ones who allowed it and the ones who worked in it - not all Americans, and certainly not any animals who happen to live in the vicinity of the prison site.

    If anything, the responsible persons behind the oil spill (if any) will get bad karma for causing the death of so many innocent beings, as well as hurting their fellow humans.
    I read somewhere (I think it was Buddhanet), that an actions outcome and the intentions behind it count as karma - a mix between deontology and consequentialism.
    So, we can expect that BP did not intentionally let this happen, but it seems like some security procedures were ignored - so this incident will produce bad karma, it is not bad karma. However the bad karma is less bad than if the spill was intended.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Ficus_religiosa, are you holding pro-Bush, republican views by any chance?
  • thesadclownthesadclown
    edited June 2010
    How many GOP Bush fans are in Denmark? Regardless of Ficus' views on American politics and political figures, I don't think one has to be supportive of either the Republican party or Bush in order to put forward these views on karma and current events.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 2010
    NomaD Buddha wrote: »
    Business is driven by profit, but when the desire to gain more and more comes into place, accidents happen. Really bad ones.
    Still, weren't there any engineers , architects, geologists, computer programmers, and so on, to design , to calculate, to simulate, to create something that doesn't turn into a disasters of giant proportions ?

    I know, it's Murphy's Law. If anything is meant to go wrong it will go wrong. But this thing, in some measure, could have been avoided.

    Yeah, like in Canada, where they require all exploratory wells to have a relief well ready in case of a blowout. BP has been lobbying the Canadian government hard to get rid of this policy, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    I don't blame it on anyone. It's Murphy's Law. When you drill a mile or more below the sea level, this sort of thing is bound to happen eventually. It's not BP's fault or Obama's or the governments. Accidents happen.

    One question though...what business isn't driven by profit? Seriously. They simply don't survive without doing so.


    I found this on another forum. The person who wrote it is a bit crass obviously, but if it turns out to be true, there will be serious consequences for all of the BP people involved in this. I would bet money that it probably is.
    As a petroleum engineer, and beneficiary of petroleum income, this sickens me. Actually, as a human, this sickens me. But the most sickening thing about this entire debacle is how utterly preventable this was. This spill is BP's fault. As awful as Halliburton is, they and Transocean were forced, against their wishes to cut corners and rush through important checks and safety procedures. The BP company men did not give two shits about safety or people's lives. EOG Resources mandates an 8 hour waiting period after the cement job SETS to ensure there isn't gas leakage and the potential for an eventual blowout. So I ask that you take a minute to look at what happened on the rig, and rather than denigrate an entire industry, place the blame squarely where it belongs. On the heads of BP's pigheaded executives.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Ficus_religiosa, are you holding pro-Bush, republican views by any chance?

    I sincerely do not comprehend why you would get that idea?
    Because I have a traditional look on karma, or because I do not think oil companies like to throw their money out the window and get global bad reputation?
    Intending to make an oil spill, and making one because of slack on security is certainly not the same. It may have the same outcome, but from my point of view the question about motivation is very important.
    I can ask, if you are by chance a complete consequentialist?

    The line of events seem to be: Slack -> Oil spill -> bad karma
    Just like: Joy riding -> accident (innocents get hurt) -> bad karma
    In that sense you can say slack -> bad karma

    The way this topic was started seems to be: bad karma -> oil spill
    That doesn't make sense, as the oil spill primarily hurt other people (and animals) than the ones responsible.

    If we were all subject to some communal bad karma, bad things would happen to us, all the time, randomly. They don't. They happen specific places, because of specific circumstances - they be man-made or caused by nature. When caused by man, they are avoidable, when caused by nature they are inevitable. Volcanoes do not suddenly erupt because of bad human karma, but because of tensions in the lithosphere build up through many, many years. It is an inevitable, mechanical reaction.
    The only way to produce bad karma is to act negatively or make acts which have negative outcome, and the reaction (karma) will show through a web of actions spun from the action sooner or later or never - not through some abstract, metaphysical, universal retaliation system qua a "godly punishment".

    I don't see how this scientific, realist view is any pro-Bush.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    To add: When bad karma comes from a negative consequence of an action meant to be positive, you could use the expression "Karma's a bitch" :)
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Ficus_religiosa wrote: »
    I sincerely do not comprehend why you would get that idea?
    Because I have a traditional look on karma, or because I do not think oil companies like to throw their money out the window and get global bad reputation?
    Intending to make an oil spill, and making one because of slack on security is certainly not the same. It may have the same outcome, but from my point of view the question about motivation is very important.
    I can ask, if you are by chance a complete consequentialist?

    The line of events seem to be: Slack -> Oil spill -> bad karma
    Just like: Joy riding -> accident (innocents get hurt) -> bad karma
    In that sense you can say slack -> bad karma

    The way this topic was started seems to be: bad karma -> oil spill
    That doesn't make sense, as the oil spill primarily hurt other people (and animals) than the ones responsible.

    If we were all subject to some communal bad karma, bad things would happen to us, all the time, randomly. They don't. They happen specific places, because of specific circumstances - they be man-made or caused by nature. When caused by man, they are avoidable, when caused by nature they are inevitable. Volcanoes do not suddenly erupt because of bad human karma, but because of tensions in the lithosphere build up through many, many years. It is an inevitable, mechanical reaction.
    The only way to produce bad karma is to act negatively or make acts which have negative outcome, and the reaction (karma) will show through a web of actions spun from the action sooner or later or never - not through some abstract, metaphysical, universal retaliation system qua a "godly punishment".

    I don't see how this scientific, realist view is any pro-Bush.
    sorry for the Bush remark, a lame attempt at humoring you.

    my point of view is simply more general and in the bigger scheme of things.

    untamed human greed = insane actions to feed the greed = bad things happen (karma).

    untamed human greed = we don't hold back at all. Wasteful and unlimited consumerism.

    insane actions to feed the greed =
    - war in Iraq (imagine how much effort it took to convince the population, fight the world opinion, come up with stories and false evidence, send the army, all the tanks, helicopters, fighting jets... and then try to make some sort of peace so you can install a regime that will allow you to get the oil... inconceivable insane effort rarely seen before,
    - digging holes at the bottom of the ocean (just begin to imagine the effort necessary to develop the oil platform, the size of that thing, which can drill 30 000 feet down!!, in the middle of the ocean... How insane is this?)

    bad things happen (kamma) = people die. we poison the air. we poison the water.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    patbb: Ah, ok :) In any case, we don't even disagree I see :)
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited June 2010
    federica wrote: »
    'at some point'...? you don't think it's already been happening with climate change....?


    true. all the climate change and the global warming is because of us. or more specifically the people who do not care for the environment.
  • Buddha_RocketBuddha_Rocket Explorer
    edited July 2010
    daveysmith wrote: »
    true. all the climate change and the global warming is because of us. or more specifically the people who do not care for the environment.


    We are the climate change, global warming and we are the environment. We are the Earth and the Earth knows what it's doing.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited July 2010
    i think if you watch the 60 minutes episode in this article, it will become quite apparent who is likely to earn this bad karma. it makes it quite clear why this was no mere "accident".

    http://news.spreadit.org/60-minutes-oil-spill/
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    zombiegirl wrote: »
    i think if you watch the 60 minutes episode in this article, it will become quite apparent who is likely to earn this bad karma. it makes it quite clear why this was no mere "accident".

    http://news.spreadit.org/60-minutes-oil-spill/

    it is not a mere accident but it is an accident... I don't think anyone would do such a thing intentionally.
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    Buddha_Rocket wrote: »
    We are the climate change, global warming and we are the environment. We are the Earth and the Earth knows what it's doing.

    oh. come on that is a little to much. I know we are directly or indirectly the cause of global warming, climate change etc. but what would you suggest... leave earth and go to some other planet??

    we cannot do that so we should try to do what is possible for us like recycle stuff, plant trees etc.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited July 2010
    daveysmith wrote: »
    it is not a mere accident but it is an accident... I don't think anyone would do such a thing intentionally.

    oh yes, sorry, i didn't mean to suggest such. i simply meant that while it was still an accident, if you watch the video, it definitely discusses several safety measures that were blatantly disregarded. had those been kept in place, it may possibly have been a different situation. it's just a shame that everyone isn't as responsible as they should be.
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    zombiegirl wrote: »
    oh yes, sorry, i didn't mean to suggest such. i simply meant that while it was still an accident, if you watch the video, it definitely discusses several safety measures that were blatantly disregarded. had those been kept in place, it may possibly have been a different situation. it's just a shame that everyone isn't as responsible as they should be.

    hey.. no need to apologize. it is not about responsibility... it is because they are trying to save money but not following the safety measures. They are in a way responsible for this but they to might not have imagined such an outcome. This is what happens when you are not honest. you pay for it later.
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    shanyin wrote: »
    You know what I'm talking about. Unintentional but devastating.

    Bad Kamma?

    such a thing is always unintentional .... and I won't comment on Kamma thing.
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    Hey BP has placed some kind of CAP or PLUG on the hole on the leak... now lets hope the plug stays in the place and stop the oil leak.
  • daveysmithdaveysmith
    edited July 2010
    strangely there has been no new news about the oil leak and BP in the news lately... Has the plug really worked??
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