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2 questions in 1
Firstly, be patient. I am new here, new to buddhism and unsure of how to put my thoughts on this into words.
That being said, here are my questions. I am quite openminded but find that i become judgemental towards people who are.. wait for it! .. judgemental and closedminded, and can't seem to see another point of view. Oh yes, I see the irony in this. What I don't see is how to get around this and let go of it. I'm struggling with the concept of "so i think you're an idiot, but that's okay, i won't judge that".
I want to, but i get so frustrated with their judgements, and it causes me to become annoyed/angry/upset with their views. How do I look at this so I can let it go and not let it bug me?
I have always thought so differently than others. I've never really "fit in" because when it comes to almost any matter, I just do not see things the same as others do. It is not the differences that are in question here, exactly. I accept we are all different, but at times it makes me wonder if something is wrong with ME. And how would you know? Why am I so different, is something critical missing from me? I emailed my father about this, and his response was that it was a blessing to think differently than most people nowadays, as most are deluded and don't know it. Great. So, if most are deluded and don't know it, what if you are one? Those beliefs you hold may be just plain wrong, and yet here you hold them dearly, all the while being led along by mistaken beliefs that others think are crazy, perhaps? His response was that we are all deluded to some degree and that those who are not are called buddhas.
I "get" this to some degree, but not entirely. So we're all deluded to some degree.. how do you know which are harmful? You live your life holding onto these delusions, and what you believe determines where you go in your life so to speak. And becasue you believe these things, they seem "good" or "right" to you.. how do you decide if this is real or just your own delusions that want you to be right becasue you like these ideas? Clearly i am not talking about things that outright harm others; those are obvious. I am talking about the more subtle ideas that could arguably, depending on your argument, be either "good" or "bad", "right" or "wrong".
Of course I also understand buddhism does away with the dualistic ideas of good and bad, right or wrong, and that things just are, it is we who put labels on things. Which is why i know I am "missing" something big, as I still wonder and hold these ideas. What I am wondering is how to start on the way to let go of these ideas?
Thank you for taking the time to read through my jumbled ramblings that go through my mind. I really hope they made some kind of sense that someone can give me insight on. Thanks.
That being said, here are my questions. I am quite openminded but find that i become judgemental towards people who are.. wait for it! .. judgemental and closedminded, and can't seem to see another point of view. Oh yes, I see the irony in this. What I don't see is how to get around this and let go of it. I'm struggling with the concept of "so i think you're an idiot, but that's okay, i won't judge that".
I want to, but i get so frustrated with their judgements, and it causes me to become annoyed/angry/upset with their views. How do I look at this so I can let it go and not let it bug me?I have always thought so differently than others. I've never really "fit in" because when it comes to almost any matter, I just do not see things the same as others do. It is not the differences that are in question here, exactly. I accept we are all different, but at times it makes me wonder if something is wrong with ME. And how would you know? Why am I so different, is something critical missing from me? I emailed my father about this, and his response was that it was a blessing to think differently than most people nowadays, as most are deluded and don't know it. Great. So, if most are deluded and don't know it, what if you are one? Those beliefs you hold may be just plain wrong, and yet here you hold them dearly, all the while being led along by mistaken beliefs that others think are crazy, perhaps? His response was that we are all deluded to some degree and that those who are not are called buddhas.
I "get" this to some degree, but not entirely. So we're all deluded to some degree.. how do you know which are harmful? You live your life holding onto these delusions, and what you believe determines where you go in your life so to speak. And becasue you believe these things, they seem "good" or "right" to you.. how do you decide if this is real or just your own delusions that want you to be right becasue you like these ideas? Clearly i am not talking about things that outright harm others; those are obvious. I am talking about the more subtle ideas that could arguably, depending on your argument, be either "good" or "bad", "right" or "wrong".
Of course I also understand buddhism does away with the dualistic ideas of good and bad, right or wrong, and that things just are, it is we who put labels on things. Which is why i know I am "missing" something big, as I still wonder and hold these ideas. What I am wondering is how to start on the way to let go of these ideas?
Thank you for taking the time to read through my jumbled ramblings that go through my mind. I really hope they made some kind of sense that someone can give me insight on. Thanks.
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Comments
It may be easier to develop compassion for them.
The ultimate truth is like the flavor of an apple.
Which you can't see with the eyes or hear with the ear.
The only way to experience it, is to put the teaching into practice.
Once you've tasted it, you'll no longer be in any doubt about it's flavor, and you won't have to ask anyone else.
The problems, will be solved.
- Ajahn Chah
The Buddha teach you how to get there.
get started on your Buddhism journey. Pick up Ajahn Brahm "mindfulness, bliss and beyond" book that will teach you meditation.
Watch some Dhamma talks online,
read more books.
join a Shanga,
go to retreats...
Look behind the behavior, look to see how their judgmentalism is an attempt to feel more "secure" and "right". They are suffering in their own way, and when you see that, you will be able to cultivate compassion.
Do the same as you observe yourself ... develop self-compassion, too.
The two, compassion and self-compassion, go hand in hand and develop together. Buddhism can give you specific ways to approach the cultivation of compassion.
I think I hear what you're saying in the "ramblings". First, how do we remain stable and peaceful when people around us are being judgmental? Also, how do we know what differences are good to cultivate, and which we should simply let go and become more in tune with those around us? How do we dissolve polarity? These questions are completely normal, and it shows you have some deep mindfulness to even approach these questions! The answers are really quite simple.
First, the answer to all of these questions is that you seem to be rooted in "self" view. Because you're looking at yourself, or holding the concept of "self" in the mind, you're experiencing dissonance when you see others. Its like a ship in a storm. The waves crash and threaten, judge and overwhelm. If you remove the ship, the ocean just rolls on naturally, no matter what winds arise, or what words are spoken.
So can be the way you experience the situations of the "judgy people". If you work on eroding that clinging to self, then when you see them acting unskillfully, you'll see what's really happening. They are distancing themselves from others... which leads them to suffering. Then, rather than being upset/angry that they "dare to judge", you'll be compassionately aware that they "unskillfully judge" and feel empathy.
It seems ironic that you also ask about the polarities of good and bad, right and wrong within the same context, because dissolving the perception of those is also related to dissolving the self. When you can look inside and see that there is no "self", then you can look outside and see there is no concrete moral right and concrete moral wrong that we can attribute to actions. They all come from that solid "self".
There are countless ways to let go of the self, it sometimes seems the most talked about aspect of buddhism. It is something that is cultivated with meditation, its like clearing out your house so when these people and ideas come in to play for a few moments, you have lots of room to let them be exactly what they are. Ajahn Brahm talks about it here.
With warmth,
Matt
nice talk.
I can see how this may work for somethings, but I honestly cannot figure out how to do this for other things. For example, if someone is gay bashing, saying mean things about gay people, and refuse to consider any other posibility other than gays deserve to be condemned and treated badly.. I cannot find it in myself to think, "gee, he doesn't like it when I get angry and disagree with him, I should be more compassionate to his point of view". I am more inclined to think, "how ignorant, what an idiot!" I will not argue this point with (the theoretical) him, because I understand he is rooted in his beliefs and trying to get him to see otherwise would be futile and my anger would build at his ignorance.
It is things like that I am speaking of when I say what i did in my original post; things like that that I need help working on.
Thank you, I will look for this book.
This makes sense to me.
AMatt, I am still thinking about what you've said, and am not sure yet what i make of it; you've brought up some points for me to ponder, and I am sure i'll have questions.
Actually, the book is written by Ajahn Brahm (who was a student of Ajahn Chah) not Ajahn Chah. Also, the book is now called "Happiness Through Meditation". The contents of this book is identical to "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond".
You can buy the book directly from the Buddhist Society of Western Australia website, where the money made will go directly into the funding of the Dhamma Center where Ajahn Brahm teaches and records Dhamma talks which go out onto youtube.
I wish you all the best on your spiritual path.
With Metta,
Guy
When you see that even a drop of water is going into the ocean and it will always be there. Unlike on the desert and it dries up. For this you need to have a good intention and protect that intention. When you stray just come back, no big deal. At a certain point you'll be stable enough to say "I am going to keep this intention or be struck down" and you will just keep to it with even more energy.
Give up hope of fruition and don't think about what you will get later.
Think about what is here now. These suffering beings are your chance to show patience and even sometimes compassion. But trying isn't being and we can only be grateful for the example of those who ARE compassionate and try to emulate them.
Everybody wants to be a somebody
Nobody knows how to be a nobody
If ever there is a somebody
Who knows how to be a nobody
Then that nobody is a real somebody!
If you ever want to be a nobody
Then follow that somebody
Who really is a "nobody"
(Later) Let go of everybody
even that somebody who already is a nobody
eventually you will be a real "nobody"
Bh Suvanno
You are struggling with it, because it is a contradiction. The thought "you are an idiot" is a judgement. Once the thought arises, judgement is made. You are in no position to say: "I won't judge that," since you already have. The only correct thing to do is to investigate what has caused the judgement and what attitude led to it.
If you see faults in people, just think of these faults as features, as inevitable limitations. Try to be forgiving towards them and balance their limitations with their good sides. Hardly anyone is without limitations, although yours may be very different from the limitations of other people. Also remember that it is not always possible to correct these.
The key is to provisionally accept the faults and limitations of others and to deal with them in a compassionate way. If you think you cannot do that, or if people behave exceptionally foolish, the second best option is to avoid them.
Cheers, Thomas
I must have been very tired yesterday... or perhaps im suffering from dyslexia.
I am from a strong christian background myself, and that was a big part of it for me. In the church environment I was brought up in I was indirectly and directly taught that there is only one right, and if they were not on our side they were wrong and thus lesser then we were.
That spilled over into my thoughts now as a grown up, and was the root of this problem in my life.
I don't know want this to get long so I'll cut to the chase here.
I have found in my practice there is no skillful reason to enter into any sort of talk with anyone about religion, politics, and the like unless you are seeking actual answers. Debates and arguments are unskillful. There is no reason as a Buddhist I should try to change people to see things the way I do. In anything, when you decide to be right you forfeit the ability to solve anything.
Remember, if you decide that you are right and someone else is wrong then you are choosing the unskillful over the skillful and it will only lead to suffering.
I also wanted to address one of the things you said, about how you judge someone who's gay bashing, for example. I think, as you learn more about Buddhism, what I say will become more clear to you...but that guy that is gay bashing is clearly discontent. He's immersed in samsara. In the cycle of suffering. For him to be so closed minded is a punishment in and of itself. He almost certainly doesn't realize it, but he's missing out on joy and peace. You can feel compassion for him, just because of this fact. Everyone just wants to be happy. Always remember that.
Oh, and just one more thing. From perhaps more of a cognitive psychology perspective... You're undoubtedly going to find yourself judging these "idiots" in an automatic way for quite some time. It takes practice and conditioning to get rid of the automatic thoughts, but it can be done. Try responding to the thoughts with something you know to be true. Not in an aggressive manner, but gently. Like a gentle reminder. "Oh there I go again, I'll come back now." It's like meditation. Lots of things are like meditation, haha. Just look, catch yourself, come back. It takes courage and practice, but it's well worth it. And never forget gentleness! I find that it makes all the difference.
In a certain sense, you could say the book was written in part by Ajahn Chah since Ajahn Brahm learnt a lot from him, some of Ajahn Chah's wisdom probably ended up in his book.
And no worries about the book; i copied and pasted it into amazon and, regardless of the error, the search engine knew what i was looking for and the book came up.