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Right speech

FenixFenix Veteran
edited June 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Ok, so this has bothered me for a long time.

Eightfold path:
-Right speech

"...factual, true, beneficial, and endearing and agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them."

and

"... Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, and from idle chatter"

I find myself not being able to ever even open my mouth to say hello, cause I feel its not all what above. I can never even answer a question when people ask me something cause its so unnecessary.

Bottom line is, when I see people I cant say anything. I want to be nice and all, but I cant talk! All I can say is sentimental things, which people dont like either :S

aaah, Im so confused.

Comments

  • JavelinJavelin
    edited June 2010
    That's taking it to an extreme, Fenix. :) Think of idle chatter as gossiping, spreading rumors and the like. It's not that you can't make small talk, but to not speak in ways that are discordant with the teachings on morality when you do.

    I'm sure someone will explain it better than that, but there is an answer that won't make you feel like you're getting laryngitis.

    Namaste
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    so on that basis, your 'speech' in your first post is also idle chatter?
    No, Come on.... I don't think so, really.... do you?
    It's as Javelin says....
    be mindful, that's all. Idle chatter is chatter that makes your mind, idle.
    Lazy. Not paying attention. Wandering. Heedless.

    *Friend* - "So...I hear Suzie in accounts is having an affair with Derek, in Purchasing!"
    *You in Idle Chatter* - "No! Really? When did all this happen?!?"

    *You, in Mindful Speech* - Well, goodness me... Tell me, do you happen to know when *boss* needs this report back by? I may be running late with it...."

    ....or some such truthful and Mindful distraction from the 'idle chatter'......
    You are bound to find yourself in situations like the above. Where Right Speech comes in, is in knowing, with Wisdom and Discernment, what response is best. And sometimes, indeed, a distracting comment such as the one above, is Right Speech.
    At other times, a silent response or something non-committal, is also Right Speech.

    But never engaging with anybody is only appropriate if you take a spiritual or sacred vow of silence. No need to go that far. :)
  • Fran45Fran45
    edited June 2010
    Sometimes I also feel that the only way I am going to achieve or maintain right speech is to remain silent. ;)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    If people really practised Right Speech in a manner fitting the Buddha's recommendations..... this board would be a lot less cluttered.

    I happen to include myself in 'people', by the way. ;)
  • searching4peacesearching4peace
    edited June 2010
    Sometimes I also feel that the only way I am going to achieve or maintain right speech is to remain silent. ;)

    Yesterday was this day for me. :)

    I find myself not being able to ever even open my mouth to say hello, cause I feel its not all what above. I can never even answer a question when people ask me something cause its so unnecessary.

    Bottom line is, when I see people I cant say anything. I want to be nice and all, but I cant talk! All I can say is sentimental things, which people dont like either :S

    To the first, small, idle chatter can actually be considered right speech if it helps others feel at ease, welcome, not alone..

    To the second, the same may apply. How awkward would it be if someone asked a question of another, and got a blank stare in return? ;) This may insult, anger, make uncomfortable or embarrass the asker, as they then may wonder if they have made a mistake or perhaps are not welcome.. ?? .. As with everything, there needs to be balance. You do not need to answer the question "how are you?" with an hour of pointless blathering, but nor do you need to isolate yourself from the human population just to avoid saying something less than earthshatteringly profound. :)
  • popeschmollpopeschmoll
    edited June 2010
    Wouldn't everything with humor be considered idle? I'm thinking of every funny thing that we talk about from day to day with friends and coworkers. Is humor idle chatter? Can we tell meaningless and hilarious jokes?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2010
    No.
    We have no way of telling of course, but I'm sure the buddha never spent his enlightened years completely silent and not laughing.
    I'm sure he interacted in many different ways with people, monks, children, animals.... why would he not laugh?
    The thing about doing something, is not always whether it is right or not, but what lasting value we give it.
    A joke is a joke,
    if it's funny - then laugh, for goodness' sake.
    Let things go, let things slide.
    It's all part of belonging to a community, contributing, supporting and functioning with others on a good and productive level.
    You have to interact with others, in order to not only nourish yourself and keep yourself sociable, but also for their good too.
    Really, if you'll forgive me saying, I think you're being too meticulous with this.
    You're not a monk, you haven't taken any sacred vows.

    I think you just need to relax and ease up on yourself.

    Your guitar string is too tight, friend......
  • JavelinJavelin
    edited June 2010
    I'd second what federica said about the string being too tight.

    The Buddha taught for both bhikkhus/bhikkhunis and for lay Buddhists. It was never intended that lay Buddhists take the teachings so far as to ostracize themselves from their society, and from societal norms of interaction.

    When a lay Buddhist sees that the householder life is a distraction, that it makes it more difficult to fully embrace the way of liberation, and believes that this goal outweighs all other worldly concerns.....they seek out a Sangha (or solitude).

    Namaste
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    And even a monk can be known for having a fun, good time.. Just think about Hotei.. He had to have something to laugh about, right? So, I guess he was full of humor and stories for kids..
    How federica describes "right speech" in a specific situation, is also how I see it. That we do not harm anyone with our speech
    :)
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited June 2010
    HHDL has a really good sense of humor. Here's something from when he had allergies or something....
    slide_2268_29058_large.jpg
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited June 2010
    When I read idle chatter, it just sounds to me like a description of talking without mindful intention. "Hi, how are ya?" for instance, without wanting an answer. I would also consider talking to someone who is obviously not listening to be idle... because really at that point you're speaking to speak.

    Joking and small talk can be very helpful in creating rapport, which is a ground that lets all sorts of beautiful things rise. As a lay person out in the world, you can't just be deep all the time, people would be put off. Intentional small talk, though its kind of odd, is what it is.

    With warmth,

    Matt
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