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Am I hypocrit??

Mattd87Mattd87
edited June 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Ok so first off...I'm 22 years old marine. I have made 2 tours to Iraq, I have seen combat. I was a christain before my first tout...after though, i lost faith. I picked up a book titled "What the Buddha Taught," I'm about half-way through it... I really identify with it... I so far love everything about Buddhism, I wont go as far as to call myself one...yet... my only problem however, is me being an infantry marine make me a hypocrit??

Comments

  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Why are you worried that you're a hypocrite? I see no conflict between the values and behaviors you describe in your post.
  • Mattd87Mattd87
    edited June 2010
    Well I just figure that, because of what I have done, and can do, more or less willing to do, creates a negativity around me. I dont feel remorse for my past action within my service, I dunno, I'm still trying to learn the teachings. I dont really know much, cept for a basic understanding of the Four Noble Truths
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Matt,

    Most of us would be hypocrits because we are all not buddhas :) You did what you thought was right when you joined the marines. You might not choose to do the same thing now, but at that time I am sure you had some solid reasons to put your life at risk.

    Its almost a subtle point though it is painful to see we are doing things that are causing others harm. I guess you just have to be honest with yourself, but at the same time have a spirit of warmth and good humor with yourself. At least that is what Pema Chodron book has recomended, and in my own practice with things that make me look like a gorilla when I look in the mirror I have to say that I might get discouraged if I didn't try to find that warmth.

    One of the most important things to learn in buddhism is friendliness with yourself. Whatever your transgressions. Particularly since you had reasons at the time to do that and you were not yet aware of buddha's teachings.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    no hypocrite.

    especially since you are not a Buddhist yet (according to you), and that you were not a Buddhist before you enroll.

    Perhaps if you have a choice, choose a position where you would not have to kill anyone, or aim a bit too high if there is a possible choice.
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited June 2010
    What the buddha taught was also the first book i read on buddhism, i really enjoy that book.

    On topic -

    I think that in general, you will find that killing is against some of the values of buddhism.

    Do some research on what is called "right livelihood". It was a step in the noble eight fold path. (that is covered early on in that book, so im going to assume you have heard of that).

    right livelihood means that you should have a profession which reflects your morals and values.

    You said you have seen combat, but i am not sure if that means you have actively taken part in it.

    Look into yourself as to why you joined the marines. To shoot people? To defend your country? To challenge yourself?

    I think that if you are in a position that does not involve killing others, and are in that position for a righteous purpose, that you are in a great position to start a path on buddhism.

    You situation seems like it would become a very tricky one if you decide that killing is against what you stand for, but you are locked in your infantry position due to a contract you signed.

    I hope that i have helped shed some light for you, and that other can help you as well.

    Welcome to the forum.
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited June 2010
    Also, in regards to the "Aim to high" comment, above. That might not be the best advice.

    I would imagine that being in the infantry often means "Your life or mine."

    And i would hate for Matt to get shot just because he aimed to high.

    I acknowledge that murder is wrong, but he could very well be in a "Self defense" situation at times, which is different.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Micsunderland3 wrote: »
    Also, in regards to the "Aim to high" comment, above. That might not be the best advice.

    I would imagine that being in the infantry often means "Your life or mine."

    And i would hate for Matt to get shot just because he aimed to high.

    I acknowledge that murder is wrong, but he could very well be in a "Self defense" situation at times, which is different.
    hense why i wrote "aim a bit too high if there is a possible choice"

    and not "aim too high always even if that guy will kill 20 of your friends with a bomb".
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Mattd87 wrote: »
    Well I just figure that, because of what I have done, and can do, more or less willing to do, creates a negativity around me. I dont feel remorse for my past action within my service, I dunno, I'm still trying to learn the teachings. I dont really know much, cept for a basic understanding of the Four Noble Truths
    It sounds as though you're asking whether your military career is compatible with Buddhist practice. Well, a military career is problematic in its own right. There's a strong chance it'll ruin your life, and it drastically impedes your liberty while you serve. But Buddhism does not necessarily prescribe moral behavior in the same way that religions like Christianity do. The moral behaviors described in Buddhist teachings can be seen as descriptions of where the practice leads. Of course, if you end up "...refraining from taking life, without stick or sword, scrupulous, compassionate, trembling for the welfare of all living beings," that is likely to get in the way of much of your military work, where killing without hesitation or question will be demanded of you at times.
  • Mattd87Mattd87
    edited June 2010
    "And i would hate for Matt to get shot just because he aimed to high."-Miscunderland3
    I found that hillarious :)

    To answer a question yes I have taken part in combat. As I said I have no remorse for those that came within my sights... I do think live shoul be cherished...but not when a fundamentalist idea causes others who dont deserve to die- to well die...
    I joined the corps to defend my country, my constitution. I wanted to help make sure another sept 11 happens again. I have been in situations where it was self defense... I have also been on the ofense. When I say I have no remorse... doesnt me I got off on it. I felt it was what i had to do. I never joked about what i did, others do but i think thats a coping mechanism.... I dunno... But thank you everyone you have all been very helpful to me, I am looking forward to furthering my knowledge of Buddha and his teachings.
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited June 2010
    patbb wrote: »
    hense why i wrote "aim a bit too high if there is a possible choice"

    and not "aim too high always even if that guy will kill 20 of your friends with a bomb".

    Ahh, very true.

    I just skimmed through your post when i should have fully read it.

    My apologies.

    :)
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited June 2010
    "I wanted to help make sure another sept 11 happens again."
    -MattD87

    Biggest typo of all time?

    haha
  • Mattd87Mattd87
    edited June 2010
    haha sorry... i have a good vocabulary...but i cant spell hah. I used to have great grammer.... but the marines beat that outta me
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited June 2010
    Ahh, i see.

    On a closing note. I would say to just continue learning about buddhism.

    You've chosen a great first book. I would recommend looking for some more to continue your research. I personally recommend "Zen mind, Beginner's Mind". My favorite book.

    Here is a thread dedicated to books.
    http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14

    and also, spend time on this forum. You will learn alot.

    As you become familiar with the teachings of Buddhism. The answers you seek regarding this issue should make themselves clear.

    best of luck on your search.

    :)
  • Mattd87Mattd87
    edited June 2010
    Thanks I appreciate it!
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Zen Mind Beginner's Mind is, perhaps ironically, not a very good book for a beginner to start with. Mindfulness in Plain English or Wake Up To Your Life would be better places to start.
  • RenGalskapRenGalskap Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Hi Matt,

    During Dr. Martin Luther King's civil rights campaigns, he spent a lot of time visiting various southern towns. I've read that occasionally some of the white males in one town or another would let it be known that if Dr. King were to make his scheduled visit, they would come to pay their respects while bearing arms, if you catch my drift. The response of the local black community was to arm a few men with rifles and station them on the roof of the house where Dr. King was staying. Dr. King of course was fully aware of what was happening and did nothing to stop it. He probably would have died sooner if he had stopped it. A number of civil rights workers who didn't have that kind of protection were killed by white supremacists.

    The great Zen master Zhaozhou and a student were walking and saw a rabbit run away.
    Student: "You are a great and accomplished person. Why did the rabbit run away?" (In other words, "You have great compassion. Why is the rabbit afraid?")
    Zhaozhou: "I like to kill."

    I've never killed another human and I don't eat meat, but rabbits run away from me, and for the same reason. There are times when killing something seems like the best solution to a problem, and I'm as subject to that way of thinking as anyone else.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited June 2010
    I realize that this is "just" from the UK Guardian (we've had a discussion about sourcing on another thread :)) but I had done a quick Google for what HH Dalai Lama has to say about it, and this appears to be about what I had expected.

    The Dalai Lama on violence

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/jun/21/dalai-lama-armed-forces-day-message
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Hypocrite is just a word. No one can "make" you a hypocrite. You have to believe what you believe, not what someone else wants you to believe. If they don't happen to agree with the path you choose for yourself (or that, as was the case with me, chooses you), then that's their problem to deal with, not yours. Your experiences have led you to where you are. If that means that you end up on a different path than you were originally on, and if you're happy with that, then so be it. If the words of the Buddha speak to you more than other words, then so be it.

    Good luck with your journey.

    Peace

    Mtns
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Have you read on the story of Angulimala?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/hecker/wheel312.html
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