Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Religion and our daughter
I have a question about a situation that maybe somebody here has already experienced and can shed a little light on.
My husband has been practicing Buddhism for about one year now (mostly as of late, he spent most of the year just reading up on everything he could) and I have been an aetheist/recovering Catholic for about 10 years. Our views are pretty much the same and as of just today I've decided to do more of what he has done and try to put my bad views of Christianity behind and work on giving Buddhism a try for a path in life.
My situation though is that we have an almost 2 year old daughter (Amaya) and we've been working on not putting her through what we both had to go through being raised in a Christian home (mostly the guilt and fear of going to hell for not wanting to eat the steak your mom burned to a crisp). I am being a little extreme but like I said I'm working on breaking that problem.
Well my mother (Catholic) really had no problem when we told her that our daughter was not going to be baptised and that we didn't want her going to church. We also told her that we didn't want her to try and explain any matters of religion to our daughter because as her parents that should be our job. His parents are a total different story though. We go over to his parents house quite often because we live on a family farm and are very close (physically). They have the usual prayer before dinner and so forth and I have never been disrespectful (to my knowledge) of anyone's religion and usually have my own moment of silence while they have their prayer. Well when I noticed that his mother was trying to teach my daughter to hold her hands together and pray along I was really bothered. Not because of the belief - I think it's great to be thankful for your food and mindfull of your meal, but what bothered me and my husband was that they were trying to teach my daughter something that we didn't feel she was old enough to understand and make up her own mind about. My husband ended up having the conversation with his mother about this (she ended up crying and being really quiet for the next couple of days) and even though they still pray our daughter isn't coaxed into following along even though I do try to get her to stay still and quiet, which isn't easy and any parent of a 2 year old will agree.
Now we are just worried because his mother has been dropping all kinds of hints about taking her to church with her and all about the other "cute little children at church". We've also noticed that a couple times when we've gone to pick her up some church program will be on T.V. and she's at the age where she's fascinated with the Tube. And at any Christian holiday his mother talks to her somewhat about Jesus and God's teachings.
I know I'm long winded and I apologize but this is something that has really bothered us and we haven't known how to handle it without hurting anyone. We want our daughter to be able to make up her own mind when it comes to her spiritual future and we don't want it tainted like ours was. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :scratch:
My husband has been practicing Buddhism for about one year now (mostly as of late, he spent most of the year just reading up on everything he could) and I have been an aetheist/recovering Catholic for about 10 years. Our views are pretty much the same and as of just today I've decided to do more of what he has done and try to put my bad views of Christianity behind and work on giving Buddhism a try for a path in life.
My situation though is that we have an almost 2 year old daughter (Amaya) and we've been working on not putting her through what we both had to go through being raised in a Christian home (mostly the guilt and fear of going to hell for not wanting to eat the steak your mom burned to a crisp). I am being a little extreme but like I said I'm working on breaking that problem.
Well my mother (Catholic) really had no problem when we told her that our daughter was not going to be baptised and that we didn't want her going to church. We also told her that we didn't want her to try and explain any matters of religion to our daughter because as her parents that should be our job. His parents are a total different story though. We go over to his parents house quite often because we live on a family farm and are very close (physically). They have the usual prayer before dinner and so forth and I have never been disrespectful (to my knowledge) of anyone's religion and usually have my own moment of silence while they have their prayer. Well when I noticed that his mother was trying to teach my daughter to hold her hands together and pray along I was really bothered. Not because of the belief - I think it's great to be thankful for your food and mindfull of your meal, but what bothered me and my husband was that they were trying to teach my daughter something that we didn't feel she was old enough to understand and make up her own mind about. My husband ended up having the conversation with his mother about this (she ended up crying and being really quiet for the next couple of days) and even though they still pray our daughter isn't coaxed into following along even though I do try to get her to stay still and quiet, which isn't easy and any parent of a 2 year old will agree.
Now we are just worried because his mother has been dropping all kinds of hints about taking her to church with her and all about the other "cute little children at church". We've also noticed that a couple times when we've gone to pick her up some church program will be on T.V. and she's at the age where she's fascinated with the Tube. And at any Christian holiday his mother talks to her somewhat about Jesus and God's teachings.
I know I'm long winded and I apologize but this is something that has really bothered us and we haven't known how to handle it without hurting anyone. We want our daughter to be able to make up her own mind when it comes to her spiritual future and we don't want it tainted like ours was. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :scratch:
0
Comments
Not an uncommon problem, this one. And it is capable of solution. The secret lies in he;ping the child understand the difference between "stories" and "reality". As parents, we do this all the time: we read them stories and they watch TV. And we work hard to help them distinguish between fact and fiction.
Within the same context of the fact/fiction dichotomy, we get our information in as early as possible: we teach them the Jesus story and Noah's Ark and Lord Krshna and themilkmaids - whatever we like. We don't let other people teach our children that other races are inferior, do we? If we encounter the attitude in our child, we help them understand that it is not true.
Children will understand, very early, and if we give them plenty of evidence that we are to be trusted to give genuine information, they will learn that Grandma beleives some stories. We also teach them the value of respect and tolerance, which religious education tends to ignore.
In many ways, we have a real chance of making the world a better place by bringing up tolerant children.
Finally, from my own experience, children take very well to meditation, in moderation. As they are exploring what their bodies can do, posture and gesture are important so some yoga and mudra learning is great fun.
I have things like this happen with my girlfriend who's parent are, well, let's just say... very DEVOUT Christians.
So, we'll be having dinner sometimes and they all want to pray before dinner. Something that one part of me feels like saying, "No thanks. I'll pass." and another part of me things, "if we have dinner in my house? They're going to respect MY wishes."
But then I think, "What purpose is that going to serve?" I can hold hands and be thankful for good things in my life. We all know we certainly have enough suffering that it's okay to be thankful for the good things we have.
I find that I can also appreciate that my girlfriend's parent find solice and comfort in their beliefs. And for that, I'm thankful. If it is a source of peace in their life - the Buddhist in me is glad for them."
And as for your child - think of your parents....
What turned you off on certain things with them? That they pounded religion down your throat without providing any explanation? "That's how it is - just BECAUSE!" !?!?!
I think your children will learn from people that they (hopefully) love and respect. By seeing how YOU interact, respect and treat people well will be the most valuable lessons they will learn from from anyone.
As for things they may hear from Grandma - let them hear it, I say. Ask them what they learned. When they tell you stories of Adam and Eve - you can tell them that there is no proof of this - that it's a good story - but maybe just a story - and then let them decide. Christ died and came back to life. Have they ever heard of someone else being dead for three days and coming back? No.... of course not. Maybe teach the "myths" of the Bible and how these are stories (and fables for all we know) that are a way to teach people how to love and show compassion to one another.
Kids love and adore their parents until their minds go goofy in the teens. No one better to learn from than their "hero" parents.
Now it's up to you to "do" what you wish them to "learn".
At least, that's my $0.02 worth...
-bf
We give thanks before and after eating. It's just that we don't address some Great Being (or Great Bean). We are mindful of all the people who have worked to bring us this food, and of the earth herself for all that grows that we can eat. Kids seem to love this idea and your daughter may want to compose/draw/paint/sculpt her very own 'thank yous' in due course.
On the topic of respect, you may enjoy a moment that came up some years ago. A couple of LDS missionaries knocked at my door. I invited them in (I love debate) and, at the end of our chat, they suggested we pray. I agreed and, when they tried to start praying, I told them that, as it was my home, I would lead the prayers. They agreed and joined in. I was impressed.
Sometimes, the greatest way to fight resistance is to recognise the feelings of hostility within yourself and dissect, examine and really strip them down to their bare identity.
Why do you resent this? and when you get the answer, question that answer too.... go deep within yourself to discover the Origin and Source of your anger and resentment....
The "hands together" gesture is not unique to Christian religion. it is a gesture that is universal in its intention of homage, respect and reverence. One of our members, Wolfscalissi actually has it as his avatar/photo/signature. The term for it is 'Ghasso' and it's a wonderful way of greeting someone and honouring the Perfection within them. The Dalai Lama uses it all the time.... I personally use it at the beginning of all my classes, and at the end too. My pupils love it. They tell me it makes them feel special, that they belong....
Metta is Unconditional Love and is also used on this forum.... It's symbolism... and it is imbued with as much or as little meaning as you want, but its intention is one of Community and Togetherness.
Think this way then (if you want) when your little girl's hands are together. She is gesturing a motion that is ageless and universal, and transmits in its own small way, the community and togetherness of the Human race.....
I was going to say just the same thing.
Many of the children I met in Nepal greeted me with Gassho - of course the belief behind it was different, being mainly Hindu these days, but it meant no less to me even though I didn't share their belief.
Please do not think that I am judging you. Far from it! My only intention to post here is to help you on your path.
So, with that in mind, perhaps one could see your mother-in-law's action as not predatory (as you may have felt) but instead caring and beautiful in it's simplicity. When you told her 'what for' for helping your daughter pray you also, in a way, slapped her in the face with your lack of belief in her religion. If you want tolerance from her (for your beliefs) the best way to get it is to intiate it yourself.
Would it really be so bad if your daughter went to church?
Would it really be so bad if she became a strong believer in the Catholic Church?
I'm sure your parents have realised that children eventually choose their own religion anyway so perhaps the best thing to do is be less precious about it all.
After all there are many ways to cross the shore. Shakyamuni, himself, taught many but there are many more!
I hope this all helps - if not then I mean no disrespect.
gassho
_/!\_
Dave
You are one of the kindest, nicest people I've never met.
-bf
As a mother of a two year old girl and having been reaised a Catholic myself, I completely understand what you are going through. I am the youngest of 6 kids and my family members are either Catholic or Christian.
How good is your daughter's vocabulary? Would she understand, in a way, that people in her life all follow a different path when it comes to religion? You could explain to her (in simple terms) what you and your husband believe/follow, and then you could explain to her what your husband's family follows. If you want your daughter to make her own decisions when it comes to religion, then isn't it good for her to know about the other religions from others, as well as from yourself? I don't agree with forcing any child into a particluar religion, and we will not do that with our daughter. But we live in a Christian dominated society, and if our daughter tells me that she wants to go to church, I will take her. My daughter sees me do Yoga, and she does it with me on occassion, and she sees me meditate, and I am sure that she will join me once she is able to sit still for more than 30 seconds! I plan to answer all of her questions about any type of religion, and then let her choose for herself. And it sounds as if that is what you want to do as well. So maybe you could have a nice talk with your Mother in Law, and explain to her that you do not want her beliefs forced onto your daughter, but that you would like her to answer any questions that your daughter may have for her.
I hope that helps a bit. My thoughts are with you and your family! I know how difficult this can be.
Well said, Fede.
"If you hate and resent <specific faith/religion>, thenyou are as bound by it as if you loved it."
In other words, whatever it is, if it awakens or stimulates any emotion in you, it is effective in binding you to it, whatever the reason. I have found, for myself, that in order to be released to go my own way with a clear conscience and a light Heart, the key is Tolerance.
Dearest Dawn, your Mother-in-Law feels just as strongly FOR her faith as you do AGAINST it..... And it is here (as I have found and experienced for myself) that the 'Child' may teach the 'adult'. I'm sure you must have good feelings for your Mother-in-Law. She has - I trust - been a good Grandmother to your little girl and a good mother to your husband. She must have some marvellous qualities, and as two women, both responsible for families, you have a great deal in common. Responsibility, Love, Compassion, and the desire to see your loved ones happy and well. Talk with her, in private if you can. Discuss your thoughts with her, tell her your side of things. But never lose sight of two things:
ONE) The right you BOTH have equally, to dignity and respect for one another.
TWO) She is your Husband's Mother; You two are irreversibly linked for Life. You will always play a part in her life and she in yours. Who knows when and at what point in the future you will need each other?
Isn't it so much nicer to take this walk together, arm in arm, rather than at arm's length?
Forgive me if I have gone on a bit. This is a subject that means much to me, and I hope you find a solution for yourselves, in the most wonderful way possible.
Freddie,
That is a great quote. I've wondered, sometimes, why some old "teachings" still bug me - and why I can't let them go or why I let them affect me.
Guess I've got my answer.
Thanks for that tid-bit.
-bf
I am sure we all know the story of the two monks and the woman carried across the stream. Put down the woman: you are already across the river.
Once again thank you all and I really enjoy having this support. We're also looking for a center/temple in our area to attend to get support from and further our knowledge. If anybody has any advice on this I would appreciate that also. I just think you can read until your heart's content but sometimes it's nice to have people to talk to who have been there before and can relate to you.
I have a thought for you. It is just another way to look at it, and it may or not fit with your thoughts, but whatever -- it is just another opinion.
First of all, I am a minister, but I also consider myself a Buddhist. Depending on the way you look at your faith, it is possible. I recommend Thich Nhat Hanh's book, "Living Buddha, Living Christ" and Ken Leong's wonderful book, The Zen Teachings of Jesus".
I have found that many Catholics feel very panicked about baptism. It makes a big difference to them if a baby is baptized or not. Baptism can be seen as the family's commitment to raise the child as a Catholic, and the parents are "standing in" for the child in the theological side, until the child can make the commitment for themselves in confirmation. This is the traditional way to look at it.
The other way is that many people are worried that the baby would not go to heaven if they were not baptized. This makes for a very panicked feeling. It could be that this is the feeling the older generation is having.
I take a very practical approach to this. Baptism can be looked at in many ways. There is nothing magical about it. If you don't put the "thinking" piece into it, it is only sprinkling a little water on the baby. (I have to say again, this is only another way to look at it, and you don't have to look at it in this way --) If it were me, I would let the grandparents have the baby baptized (you do not have to participate unless you feel up to it), and then their fear and panic about the heaven issue will dissolve. Then you will most likely be free to do what you want without that thought complicating the issue. Of course -- the baby is your child. However, letting the grandparents have the "face" of the baptism ceremony and having the birth of their grandchild "celebrated" by their church community can be a good way to show respect for your parents in a way they can understand and will give them incredible peace of mind.
There is a "control" issue here. I don't know the level of the issue in your family. I don't know your parents, so I don't know if this would be an acceptable option, but I do think it is one option --
You can raise the baby as you like, and including the child in your Buddhist community and bringing the child up in a good sangha will be your choice. Having the child learn a little about the Catholic faith won't hurt. It will make him/her more flexible and thoughtful I should think.
Peace to you both!
EM
A minister? What is your Christian following? Catholic? Mormon? Presb?
It will be interesting to have a minister participating in this forum. Just like it's very interesting that Palzang has joined our group!
-bf
Nice to meet you too --
EM
Do you know of a book by Jim Pym, titled 'You don't have to sit on the floor!' ? The quotation in Buddhafoot's post (#11) is from that book.....
Jim Pym is both a Member of the Society of Friends, AND an ordained Zen Buddhist Monk.....
I'll check it out.
Thanks!
Amituofo,
EM
He has become something of a Buddhist saint in Dharamshala where they will tell you that he had decided to return in order to study under HHDL, or to practise Dzogchen, or something else, depending on who is telling the story!
His diary of his Asian journey has been published, as well as his diaries of the period. They give a fascinating insight into the mind of a spiritual pilgrim of heroic stature - and a man of great humanity and humour.
His Elected Silence was the inspiration for my own retreats over the past 40 years: I would never have gone on the first one without his example.
There is a very revealing article about Thomas Merton's visit to Dharamshala and his first meeting with HHDL, in Tricycle, The Buddhist Review (Summer 1992). It is an interview with Harold Talbott.n Well worth reading.