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Living in Thailand, insects are a major issue. But that said, even though my Buddhist wife has no problem with insect genocide (I taught her this word), I find that every time I kill a fly or a mosquito, the problem just becomes worse. They seem to multiply! If I leave them alone, the issue is tolerable. Karma? or attitude?
So every morning, when a fly comes and starts landing on me, instead of killing it, I try to adapt to the mentality that it is a message from the universe that it is TIME TO WAKE UP. But in reality, say a centipede crawls into bed, I kill kill kill and then hope I can pay back Karma in some other way during my day to counter out the deficit (make merit).. It's like borrowing money and paying it back as soon as possible to avoid the interest. Kinda sounds insane, now that I see it in print, but it seems to be the way the Thai Buddhists deal with the issue (Catholics as well (confession)).
Hi Zombiegirl, the past cannot be changed so don't beat yourself up about what you did, The fact that you are having remorse about what you did shows you have compassion towards the well being of the spiders and regret for your actions. I have done many similar things myself in the past before I found Buddhism and I sometimes think about what I did and feel a lot of regret about it. Anyway I just tell myself to be more mindful next time I am in such a situation and I have never done anything like this again. And you never know just because the were vacuumed doesnt mean they died they might have escaped the vacuum at a later time.:)
Living in Thailand, insects are a major issue. But that said, even though my Buddhist wife has no problem with insect genocide (I taught her this word), I find that every time I kill a fly or a mosquito, the problem just becomes worse. They seem to multiply! If I leave them alone, the issue is tolerable. Karma? or attitude?
So every morning, when a fly comes and starts landing on me, instead of killing it, I try to adapt to the mentality that it is a message from the universe that it is TIME TO WAKE UP. But in reality, say a centipede crawls into bed, I kill kill kill and then hope I can pay back Karma in some other way during my day to counter out the deficit (make merit).. It's like borrowing money and paying it back as soon as possible to avoid the interest. Kinda sounds insane, now that I see it in print, but it seems to be the way the Thai Buddhists deal with the issue (Catholics as well (confession)).
Hi Zombiegirl, the past cannot be changed so don't beat yourself up about what you did, The fact that you are having remorse about what you did shows you have compassion towards the well being of the spiders and regret for your actions. I have done many similar things myself in the past before I found Buddhism and I sometimes think about what I did and feel a lot of regret about it. Anyway I just tell myself to be more mindful next time I am in such a situation and I have never done anything like this again. And you never know just because the were vacuumed doesnt mean they died they might have escaped the vacuum at a later time.:)
Metta to all sentient beings
It probably ripped them apart... but yeah, I agree.
the Thai Buddhists seem to think it's ok. as long as they make merit later. You should see the butchering that goes on in our village. The Buddhist people here are intimately involved with the slaughter of animals and insects.
Even the old local monk likes an occasional tadpole stew.. as long as he isn't the one that does the killing. This is a very far cry from Tibet.
yeah. welcome to Buddhist realism. I notice a lot of idealism going on here at newbuddhist.com, which is ok as an ultimate goal, but not entirely practical for the realities of our average everyday lives.
I myself continue to contemplate the Thai village freestyle approach to killing. I'm not sure it is for me. But at some point, it may just become a fact of life. While everything green that grows, nearly, is edible, there has to be some protein in the diet. Enter the cricket, grasshopper, and dung beetle. Then, of course, fish, frogs, lizards, and chickens. Pigs and cows will eventually be beyond our average financial limit, if things keep going the way they are.
I stand corrected. I just asked my wife (Buddhist) about this issue. She says that as long as you are killing in order to eat, to survive, it's ok. She says Buddha says this. I don't know if that is accurate, but if she believes it, it is certainly a prevalent Buddhist belief in this country. She says it's not ok to kill something unless it contributes to your life.
This applies, according to her understanding of Buddhist teaching, to pests as well (according to this topic). She says that it's ok to kill termites, ants, flies, and mosquitoes because it is necessary for your life. She calls this wattachack. I still don't fully understand this, but she has no guilt regarding this sort of killing, nor for the killing to eat. She drew a picture of the Dhamma Wheel as she was describing this, and said these things were within this wheel. Then she quoted some Pali that she uses for "saying sorry" for killing. She says she is supposed to say this Pali chant every night (though I know she doesn't).
Sorry for the incomplete explanation. There is a language barrier here, and I am still far from understanding entirely.
she finalizes by telling me of this word. Permeta/แผ่เมตา. (Per Meta?) that has to do with telling something not to take revenge on you. I think it is a pali word that they are supposed to speak in order to offstay the bad karma that comes from taking life. She is now, as I write, reciting a Pali chant that is supposed to be effective to this purpose.
EDIT: I must also point out that she also believes in ghosts, spirits, magic, luck, and worships Buddha statues like they are God. And much much more that might not be in accordance with a dogmatic Buddhist perspective.
Killing is a fact of life. Things die, all things, usually via the actions of another. I guess what it really boils down to it, it is the intention behind the action that matters.
Did you kill because the animal was annoying you?
Did you kill for fun/sport?
Did you kill because you like the taste of the animal's meat?
Those are reasons that I personally consider unjustified, and not conducive to a compassionate state of mind.
If people kill to survive, to prevent themselves getting a disease (I'm thinking malaria from mosquitoes) or to protect themselves (and I include stopping termites or ants from destroying your home in that). Then I think it's a different matter entirely.
Killing is a fact of life. Things die, all things, usually via the actions of another. I guess what it really boils down to it, it is the intention behind the action that matters.
Did you kill because the animal was annoying you?
Did you kill for fun/sport?
Did you kill because you like the taste of the animal's meat?
Those are reasons that I personally consider unjustified, and not conducive to a compassionate state of mind.
If people kill to survive, to prevent themselves getting a disease (I'm thinking malaria from mosquitoes) or to protect themselves (and I include stopping termites or ants from destroying your home in that). Then I think it's a different matter entirely.
what about eating nasty dung beetles, because, quite frankly, you can't afford anything else? Whether they are delicious or not, I don't know. Haven't tried 'em yet.
what about eating nasty dung beetles, because, quite frankly, you can't afford anything else? Whether they are delicious or not, I don't know. Haven't tried 'em yet.
If dung beetles are all you have to eat, then I would say that is fine. You're not killing them for fun, out of spite or enjoyment, just to survive.
I've never been to Thailand, what's the agriculture like, can they grow things like rice, beans, nuts etc there?
Om mani padme hum
Om Ah Hum
Om Ami Dewa Hrih.
These 3 are good mantra for the dieing and deceased the last being especially good because it creates the causes for them to take rebirth in Sukhavati pureland of Buddha Amitabha.
Only with Great compassion could one assist another passing even one small as an insect, To do with a mind other then compassion would be to incur downfalls.
If dung beetles are all you have to eat, then I would say that is fine. You're not killing them for fun, out of spite or enjoyment, just to survive.
I've never been to Thailand, what's the agriculture like, can they grow things like rice, beans, nuts etc there?
I have been to thailand and from what I seen there is a large selection of foods ( usually involving chillies) with rice and an abundance of fruits being the most available food. So if anybody wants to eat dung beatles it must be because they like the taste.
If dung beetles are all you have to eat, then I would say that is fine. You're not killing them for fun, out of spite or enjoyment, just to survive.
I've never been to Thailand, what's the agriculture like, can they grow things like rice, beans, nuts etc there?
I'd have to agree. I think it's in the mentality behind the killing that drives to the heart of the precept. If I could survive on rice, vegetables, soy and peanuts, that would be my preference. But it's not always a realistic alternative in this region (northeastern Thailand).
Locally, the main crops you'll see are about 95% rice, and then occasionally some corn, sugar cane, watermelon, or cabbage, along with an occasional vegetable garden. Soy beans and peanuts are grown in Thailand, but not around this village, that I know of. Protein sources are the hopping critters, and fish, primarily. The other sources of protein, chicken (more common), cow, and pig, are a much rarer treat, probably a few times a month for the average poor family. I have friends in Cambodia who get to eat pork about once a month, if lucky. Otherwise it's whatever they can scrounge in the fields, primarily, fish, frogs, lizards, rats, and insects.
Rice is the common staple, though, and is eaten with every meal. But things like soy and peanuts, for protein, are by no means part of the common countryside diet, which is unfortunate. They are enjoyed, of course, but are not generally grown by the average farmer, nor are available by scouring the land for subsistence. People here truly know how to live off of what the land provides, so if money fails, and things like pork, chicken, beef, or soy are unavailable, they can still survive. The biggest fear is a drought, which means little or no rice, which the average family in this region produces for their own needs. Rice, to the people here, is life. The actual phrase for "eat" in Thailand and Laos is "ghin khao", which means "eat rice." Anything else, you say, "eat rice with." Cambodia is the same, only they say "gnyam bai." People here don't understand how Westerners can survive without eating rice at every meal. It seems foolish to them. Thailand is the worlds biggest rice exporter, but you wouldn't guess it by the way the average farmer in our region, anyways, makes his living. It is very much limited to a family oriented, and self-sustaining enterprise, as far as I can make out from observing the average farmer that I come into contact with. Outside of the sugar cane industry (and rubber), I don't any see major companies involved in mass cultivation, so how Thailand is the world's leading exporter in rice is beyond my observation, so far.
EDIT: I forgot to mention mangoes, papaya, berries, and bananas, which are grown, and eaten, in abundance in this area. Fruit is a very major part of the local diet, whether scrounged, or purchased at the market (bamboo and lotus stems are also very popular, and easily scroungable).
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
In keeping with the tongue in cheek nature of my previous post, how does this make one different than Tony Soprano?
I understand that intent means everything, but how does 'subcontracting' the actual kill absolve one of responsibility for the death?
Again this is tongue in cheek, I do not wish anyone to get wrapped up in futile mental circles pondering the imponderable.
i don't think you have to worry about the spider starving anytime soon. i personally, would just do what you always do... keep the porch light off except when you need it on
oh, and Shawn M.... i know all about silverfish. at least, perhaps their distant relative. we have a lot of them here and we call them "house centipedes". they are wicked fast and i have heard that if you actually have the misfortune of getting bitten by one, it is incredibly painful, like a bee sting. only the big ones are capable of piercing skin though. sad to say that i do kill them, but mostly, i am just worried about my pets. i don't see them too incredibly often though as they prefer dark places.
it looks like it's playing with a ball, haha.
just prior to noticing that someone unearthed this thread, i was watching a spider on my drape. i felt no animosity toward him and simply let him be. after remembering this thread, i wonder if perhaps my practice has had a positive effect on me... but then again, i think i may still react the same if there were 50 spiders... it did feel at the time to be a necessary evil. why can't spiders understand the middle path!
How would you react if you found this Thai Centipiede under your pillow? Very common occurrence in the rainy season! Even better, they have something I have fortunately not seen called the Elephant Scorpion. God forbid if a snake slithered into my room.
How would you react if you found this Thai Centipiede under your pillow? Very common occurrence in the rainy season! Even better, they have something I have fortunately not seen called the Elephant Scorpion. God forbid if a snake slithered into my room.
um.... :eek:
are they dangerous? can they bite? that thing is terrifying...
I'd have to agree. I think it's in the mentality behind the killing that drives to the heart of the precept. If I could survive on rice, vegetables, soy and peanuts, that would be my preference. But it's not always a realistic alternative in this region (northeastern Thailand).
Locally, the main crops you'll see are about 95% rice, and then occasionally some corn, sugar cane, watermelon, or cabbage, along with an occasional vegetable garden. Soy beans and peanuts are grown in Thailand, but not around this village, that I know of. Protein sources are the hopping critters, and fish, primarily. The other sources of protein, chicken (more common), cow, and pig, are a much rarer treat, probably a few times a month for the average poor family. I have friends in Cambodia who get to eat pork about once a month, if lucky. Otherwise it's whatever they can scrounge in the fields, primarily, fish, frogs, lizards, rats, and insects.
Rice is the common staple, though, and is eaten with every meal. But things like soy and peanuts, for protein, are by no means part of the common countryside diet, which is unfortunate. They are enjoyed, of course, but are not generally grown by the average farmer, nor are available by scouring the land for subsistence. People here truly know how to live off of what the land provides, so if money fails, and things like pork, chicken, beef, or soy are unavailable, they can still survive. The biggest fear is a drought, which means little or no rice, which the average family in this region produces for their own needs. Rice, to the people here, is life. The actual phrase for "eat" in Thailand and Laos is "ghin khao", which means "eat rice." Anything else, you say, "eat rice with." Cambodia is the same, only they say "gnyam bai." People here don't understand how Westerners can survive without eating rice at every meal. It seems foolish to them. Thailand is the worlds biggest rice exporter, but you wouldn't guess it by the way the average farmer in our region, anyways, makes his living. It is very much limited to a family oriented, and self-sustaining enterprise, as far as I can make out from observing the average farmer that I come into contact with. Outside of the sugar cane industry (and rubber), I don't any see major companies involved in mass cultivation, so how Thailand is the world's leading exporter in rice is beyond my observation, so far.
EDIT: I forgot to mention mangoes, papaya, berries, and bananas, which are grown, and eaten, in abundance in this area. Fruit is a very major part of the local diet, whether scrounged, or purchased at the market (bamboo and lotus stems are also very popular, and easily scroungable).
In the North east of thailand, I believe that most rice farmers can only grow one crop per year due to poor irrigation, whereas the middle of thailand can grow 2 to 3 crops per year and as a consequence their rice farmers are far richer than those in the north. This has to be the responsibility of the thai goverment, it seems they really do not care about or wish to invest in the poorer regions of thailand such as isan.
In the North east of thailand, I believe that most rice farmers can only grow one crop per year due to poor irrigation, whereas the middle of thailand can grow 2 to 3 crops per year and as a consequence their rice farmers are far richer than those in the north. This has to be the responsibility of the thai goverment, it seems they really do not care about or wish to invest in the poorer regions of thailand such as isan.
true. though there are some irrigation canals here and there, and if you are fortunate to have land near a river you can get in 2 crops, even in Isaan. They syphon the water right out
I cannot discuss the general gov't neglect of the poor in this country. too frustrating of a topic! Though in the recent decade a lot of good changes have been made, but never enough.. All the same, the average poor family is much more well off here than in neighboring Cambodia
Although they do so for sustenance, spiders are little killers. Ants are observed to be absolutely warlike - territorially. I capture and release spiders but must admit, I kill mosquitoes too. Sometimes I feel like a big bug. Hope I don't get stepped on.
Giant Red ant eggs, and bee larvae, look like maggots, but they are good eating. very popular.
getting hold of a giant red ant nest or bee hive from a tree is another story. very painful experience. i have to say that rarely do have a problem killing ants if they bite, but if they are just minding their own business and I squash one, I contemplate the motive behind the killing. I leave bees alone. I am very at peace with them and they never sting me, no matter how much they might like to hang around
I stand corrected. I just asked my wife (Buddhist) about this issue. She says that as long as you are killing in order to eat, to survive, it's ok. She says Buddha says this. I don't know if that is accurate, but if she believes it, it is certainly a prevalent Buddhist belief in this country. She says it's not ok to kill something unless it contributes to your life.
This applies, according to her understanding of Buddhist teaching, to pests as well (according to this topic). She says that it's ok to kill termites, ants, flies, and mosquitoes because it is necessary for your life. She calls this wattachack. I still don't fully understand this, but she has no guilt regarding this sort of killing, nor for the killing to eat. She drew a picture of the Dhamma Wheel as she was describing this, and said these things were within this wheel. Then she quoted some Pali that she uses for "saying sorry" for killing. She says she is supposed to say this Pali chant every night (though I know she doesn't).
Sorry for the incomplete explanation. There is a language barrier here, and I am still far from understanding entirely.
she finalizes by telling me of this word. Permeta/แผ่เมตา. (Per Meta?) that has to do with telling something not to take revenge on you. I think it is a pali word that they are supposed to speak in order to offstay the bad karma that comes from taking life. She is now, as I write, reciting a Pali chant that is supposed to be effective to this purpose.
EDIT: I must also point out that she also believes in ghosts, spirits, magic, luck, and worships Buddha statues like they are God. And much much more that might not be in accordance with a dogmatic Buddhist perspective.
I agree with your wife, although you should only kill 'pests' if they are just, say, walking along and aren't in your house or anything. That's just being a jerk. Here in England we have a product called Quorn which is like a healthy fake meat. I think it's disgusting though to kill something just because you can make it up later, it's serious abuse of life and IS DISGUSTING. IMO.
are they dangerous? can they bite? that thing is terrifying...
I'd call you a big girl (metaphorically speaking) but I read in a book I have that when humans were fish, arachnids and the like were huge predators and we only avoided being caught by "legging" it. As evolution would have it, we came out on top. Over the millions of years however, the fear still remained, and over 80% of humans are scared of creepy crawlies
I think it's disgusting though to kill something just because you can make it up later, it's serious abuse of life and IS DISGUSTING. IMO.
i agree. that statement was the result of a cultural misunderstanding. my wife set me straight. :rolleyes:
i've been thinking about this. someone said turn off the porch light when you don't need it. in our case, with the centipedes, i was able to stop the problem by buying a bed to put our mattress on and not sleeping on the floor anymore (which I prefer). But I haven't had a centipede since. I guess there are a lot of things we can do to prevent the need for insect slaughter from arising in the first place.
i could gently brush an ant that is biting me off my leg, rather than squash it, then remove myself from the vicinity of his hole in ground.
does this sound too simplistic? if nothing else, it would save me a lot of chanting!
I'd have to agree. I think it's in the mentality behind the killing that drives to the heart of the precept. If I could survive on rice, vegetables, soy and peanuts, that would be my preference. But it's not always a realistic alternative in this region (northeastern Thailand).
Locally, the main crops you'll see are about 95% rice, and then occasionally some corn, sugar cane, watermelon, or cabbage, along with an occasional vegetable garden. Soy beans and peanuts are grown in Thailand, but not around this village, that I know of. Protein sources are the hopping critters, and fish, primarily. The other sources of protein, chicken (more common), cow, and pig, are a much rarer treat, probably a few times a month for the average poor family. I have friends in Cambodia who get to eat pork about once a month, if lucky. Otherwise it's whatever they can scrounge in the fields, primarily, fish, frogs, lizards, rats, and insects.
Rice is the common staple, though, and is eaten with every meal. But things like soy and peanuts, for protein, are by no means part of the common countryside diet, which is unfortunate. They are enjoyed, of course, but are not generally grown by the average farmer, nor are available by scouring the land for subsistence. People here truly know how to live off of what the land provides, so if money fails, and things like pork, chicken, beef, or soy are unavailable, they can still survive. The biggest fear is a drought, which means little or no rice, which the average family in this region produces for their own needs. Rice, to the people here, is life. The actual phrase for "eat" in Thailand and Laos is "ghin khao", which means "eat rice." Anything else, you say, "eat rice with." Cambodia is the same, only they say "gnyam bai." People here don't understand how Westerners can survive without eating rice at every meal. It seems foolish to them. Thailand is the worlds biggest rice exporter, but you wouldn't guess it by the way the average farmer in our region, anyways, makes his living. It is very much limited to a family oriented, and self-sustaining enterprise, as far as I can make out from observing the average farmer that I come into contact with. Outside of the sugar cane industry (and rubber), I don't any see major companies involved in mass cultivation, so how Thailand is the world's leading exporter in rice is beyond my observation, so far.
EDIT: I forgot to mention mangoes, papaya, berries, and bananas, which are grown, and eaten, in abundance in this area. Fruit is a very major part of the local diet, whether scrounged, or purchased at the market (bamboo and lotus stems are also very popular, and easily scroungable).
I don't know how people can eat pigs, they're more intelligent than dogs!
Giant Red ant eggs, and bee larvae, look like maggots, but they are good eating. very popular.
getting hold of a giant red ant nest or bee hive from a tree is another story. very painful experience. i have to say that rarely do have a problem killing ants if they bite, but if they are just minding their own business and I squash one, I contemplate the motive behind the killing. I leave bees alone. I am very at peace with them and they never sting me, no matter how much they might like to hang around
Bees are incredibly important for crop and in England bees are getting rare. Eating their eggs would be like sh*tting all over them :-/ I would leave them alone too, I love bees
i agree. that statement was the result of a cultural misunderstanding. my wife set me straight. :rolleyes:
i've been thinking about this. someone said turn off the porch light when you don't need it. in our case, with the centipedes, i was able to stop the problem by buying a bed to put our mattress on and not sleeping on the floor anymore (which I prefer). But I haven't had a centipede since. I guess there are a lot of things we can do to prevent the need for insect slaughter from arising in the first place.
i could gently brush an ant that is biting me off my leg, rather than squash it, then remove myself from the vicinity of his hole in ground.
does this sound too simplistic? if nothing else, it would save me a lot of chanting!
Yeah I've persuaded my nan to think more about the importance of each creature and so when my grandad was about to kill a wasp she smartly took the fly swat from him and shooed the wasp out the window, unharmed
You like sleeping on the floor? I suppose it is quite hot in Thailand, isn't it? (?) But on a cold night in England I love wrapping my blankets around myself, although on really hot nights I sometimes just sprawl out on the floor
Yeah I've persuaded my nan to think more about the importance of each creature and so when my grandad was about to kill a wasp she smartly took the fly swat from him and shooed the wasp out the window, unharmed
You like sleeping on the floor? I suppose it is quite hot in Thailand, isn't it? (?) But on a cold night in England I love wrapping my blankets around myself, although on really hot nights I sometimes just sprawl out on the floor
yes. the floor is a good thing. i guess if i couldn't afford to buy a bed, i could always get some big tweezers and catch that centipede. but let me tell you, those things move (and disappear) quick!
i don't envy you your cold nights. may i never see snow again
I went to spain and when I returned to England I fled the plain and felt the wind battering my freezing skin and the rain soaked me through. And no sarcasm, I'd never loved the weather more
I went to spain and when I returned to England I fled the plain and felt the wind battering my freezing skin and the rain soaked me through. And no sarcasm, I'd never loved the weather more
you should come to Thailand and see what happens. it'll be more than the weather that batters you when you return to Heathrow.. reverse culture shock is a lot of fun. very enlightening
lol as of late ive been catching and releasing spider despite my horrid fear in them. Funny how people are so much bigger than the yet most are afraid lol. Although its a rush catching those really fast jumpy spiders *shivers at the though of them*
oh yeah and zombiegirl love the avatar big fan of MSI myself
lol as of late ive been catching and releasing spider despite my horrid fear in them. Funny how people are so much bigger than the yet most are afraid lol. Although its a rush catching those really fast jumpy spiders *shivers at the though of them*
I'd call you a big girl (metaphorically speaking) but I read in a book I have that when humans were fish, arachnids and the like were huge predators and we only avoided being caught by "legging" it. As evolution would have it, we came out on top. Over the millions of years however, the fear still remained, and over 80% of humans are scared of creepy crawlies
lol as of late ive been catching and releasing spider despite my horrid fear in them. Funny how people are so much bigger than the yet most are afraid lol. Although its a rush catching those really fast jumpy spiders *shivers at the though of them*
oh yeah and zombiegirl love the avatar big fan of MSI myself
i know what you mean. it makes me feel so silly... but terrified!
there are certain species that can walk on the water. i learned that during a horrible tubing trip down a very small river with tons of bushes hanging over either side. if you happen to run into a bush (which were very difficult to avoid), several spiders would fall on your tube... and these things could be as big as a couple inches! you can try flipping your tube, but they'll just skate around on the water. *shivers*
my knees were so bruised from flipping out of my tube onto the rocks in the river. and the funny part was i was accompanying my catholic friend with her youth group and we had to go to church the next day. anyone who has ever been to catholic church will understand why this became so painful. sit down. stand up. kneel. sit. kneel. stand. kneel. kneel. kneel. ugh.
Have you seen the Simpsons episode where Homer accidentally leaves Maggie on the steps of a Catholic church and they keep her and Lisa has to pretend to be a nun to go in and find? One of my favourite episodes; hilarious
"Monks! These two things are a cause of remorse. What are the two? Some people in this world have not made good kamma, have not been skillful, have not made merit as a safeguard against fear. They have committed only bad kamma, only coarse kamma, only harmful kamma … They experience remorse as a result, thinking, ‘I have not made good kamma. I have made only bad kamma …’" - Buddha Sakyamuni
I personally think that you should learn from your experience. You had intent of sucking spider up a vacuum, so in all honesty that is not "right view" it most probably has cultivated a bit of bad kamma. But the probelm comes in that you feel terrible about it. That too is not a constructive emotion and you need to stop dwelling it and nip kamma in the bud before it blossoms. The fact that you feel terrible is the the result of you not being mindful about the spiders, therefore as you can see Kamma has already cultivated. If you want to wheel of kamma to cease, you need to reflect and meditate and make sure that your "terrible feeling" doesn't snowball into the more serious results of long term kamma. I always see kamma this way:
If you have an assignment to write an essay, and you are struggling to get your point across and you get frustrated with youself. Eventually you get so irretated that you tear what you have written. Then you walk away and watch tv, and before you know it, it is time to go to bed. The next day your assignment is due and you don't have anything to hand in. The lecturer fails you and is dissapointed in you. You get angry at the lecturer and for the rest of the year you don't feel motivated to work in the class and your points drop... etc etc etc.
All that started from being irretated with youself. If you were able to control the "wrong view" you would not have ripped up the piece of paper and you could at least have handed in something and not failed.
So don't feel terrible and don't beat yourself up about it. Reflect and make sure that you stop the turn of kamma. I personaly don't think you can make kamma stop turning by accumilating merits, the only way you can stop Kamma from cultivating result is if you are mindful and make absolutely sure that your intention is always pure. The Buddha Sakyamuni has tought a way of checking your intention and checking wether you are cultivating black or white kamma. In more simple terms it goes something liek this: (From the book good,evil beyond)
Primary Factors
• Inquiring into the roots of actions, whether the intentions for them arose from one of the skillful roots of non-greed non-aversion or non-delusion, or from one of the unskillful roots of greed, aversion or delusion.
• Inquiring into the effects on the psyche, or mental well-being, of actions: whether they render the mind clear, calm and healthy; whether they promote or inhibit the quality of the mind; whether they encourage the arising of skillful conditions and the decrease of unskillful conditions, or vice versa.
Secondary Factors
1. Considering whether one’s actions are censurable to oneself or not (conscience).
2. Considering the quality of one’s actions in terms of wise teachings.
3. Considering the results of those actions:
a. towards oneself
b. towards others.
The Ill leave you with something out of the Dhammavadaka:
You, no less than all beings have Buddha Nature within. Your essential Mind is pure. Therefore, when defilements cause you to stumble and fall, let not remose nor dark foreboding cast you down. Be of good cheer and with this understanding, summon strength and walk on.
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Living in Thailand, insects are a major issue. But that said, even though my Buddhist wife has no problem with insect genocide (I taught her this word), I find that every time I kill a fly or a mosquito, the problem just becomes worse. They seem to multiply! If I leave them alone, the issue is tolerable. Karma? or attitude?
So every morning, when a fly comes and starts landing on me, instead of killing it, I try to adapt to the mentality that it is a message from the universe that it is TIME TO WAKE UP. But in reality, say a centipede crawls into bed, I kill kill kill and then hope I can pay back Karma in some other way during my day to counter out the deficit (make merit).. It's like borrowing money and paying it back as soon as possible to avoid the interest. Kinda sounds insane, now that I see it in print, but it seems to be the way the Thai Buddhists deal with the issue (Catholics as well (confession)).
Metta to all sentient beings
You can't talk about lives like that!
It probably ripped them apart... but yeah, I agree.
the Thai Buddhists seem to think it's ok. as long as they make merit later. You should see the butchering that goes on in our village. The Buddhist people here are intimately involved with the slaughter of animals and insects.
Even the old local monk likes an occasional tadpole stew.. as long as he isn't the one that does the killing. This is a very far cry from Tibet.
yeah. welcome to Buddhist realism. I notice a lot of idealism going on here at newbuddhist.com, which is ok as an ultimate goal, but not entirely practical for the realities of our average everyday lives.
I myself continue to contemplate the Thai village freestyle approach to killing. I'm not sure it is for me. But at some point, it may just become a fact of life. While everything green that grows, nearly, is edible, there has to be some protein in the diet. Enter the cricket, grasshopper, and dung beetle. Then, of course, fish, frogs, lizards, and chickens. Pigs and cows will eventually be beyond our average financial limit, if things keep going the way they are.
This applies, according to her understanding of Buddhist teaching, to pests as well (according to this topic). She says that it's ok to kill termites, ants, flies, and mosquitoes because it is necessary for your life. She calls this wattachack. I still don't fully understand this, but she has no guilt regarding this sort of killing, nor for the killing to eat. She drew a picture of the Dhamma Wheel as she was describing this, and said these things were within this wheel. Then she quoted some Pali that she uses for "saying sorry" for killing. She says she is supposed to say this Pali chant every night (though I know she doesn't).
Sorry for the incomplete explanation. There is a language barrier here, and I am still far from understanding entirely.
she finalizes by telling me of this word. Permeta/แผ่เมตา. (Per Meta?) that has to do with telling something not to take revenge on you. I think it is a pali word that they are supposed to speak in order to offstay the bad karma that comes from taking life. She is now, as I write, reciting a Pali chant that is supposed to be effective to this purpose.
EDIT: I must also point out that she also believes in ghosts, spirits, magic, luck, and worships Buddha statues like they are God. And much much more that might not be in accordance with a dogmatic Buddhist perspective.
Did you kill because the animal was annoying you?
Did you kill for fun/sport?
Did you kill because you like the taste of the animal's meat?
Those are reasons that I personally consider unjustified, and not conducive to a compassionate state of mind.
If people kill to survive, to prevent themselves getting a disease (I'm thinking malaria from mosquitoes) or to protect themselves (and I include stopping termites or ants from destroying your home in that). Then I think it's a different matter entirely.
what about eating nasty dung beetles, because, quite frankly, you can't afford anything else? Whether they are delicious or not, I don't know. Haven't tried 'em yet.
I've never been to Thailand, what's the agriculture like, can they grow things like rice, beans, nuts etc there?
Om mani padme hum
Om Ah Hum
Om Ami Dewa Hrih.
These 3 are good mantra for the dieing and deceased the last being especially good because it creates the causes for them to take rebirth in Sukhavati pureland of Buddha Amitabha.
Only with Great compassion could one assist another passing even one small as an insect, To do with a mind other then compassion would be to incur downfalls.
metta to all sentient beings
I'd have to agree. I think it's in the mentality behind the killing that drives to the heart of the precept. If I could survive on rice, vegetables, soy and peanuts, that would be my preference. But it's not always a realistic alternative in this region (northeastern Thailand).
Locally, the main crops you'll see are about 95% rice, and then occasionally some corn, sugar cane, watermelon, or cabbage, along with an occasional vegetable garden. Soy beans and peanuts are grown in Thailand, but not around this village, that I know of. Protein sources are the hopping critters, and fish, primarily. The other sources of protein, chicken (more common), cow, and pig, are a much rarer treat, probably a few times a month for the average poor family. I have friends in Cambodia who get to eat pork about once a month, if lucky. Otherwise it's whatever they can scrounge in the fields, primarily, fish, frogs, lizards, rats, and insects.
Rice is the common staple, though, and is eaten with every meal. But things like soy and peanuts, for protein, are by no means part of the common countryside diet, which is unfortunate. They are enjoyed, of course, but are not generally grown by the average farmer, nor are available by scouring the land for subsistence. People here truly know how to live off of what the land provides, so if money fails, and things like pork, chicken, beef, or soy are unavailable, they can still survive. The biggest fear is a drought, which means little or no rice, which the average family in this region produces for their own needs. Rice, to the people here, is life. The actual phrase for "eat" in Thailand and Laos is "ghin khao", which means "eat rice." Anything else, you say, "eat rice with." Cambodia is the same, only they say "gnyam bai." People here don't understand how Westerners can survive without eating rice at every meal. It seems foolish to them. Thailand is the worlds biggest rice exporter, but you wouldn't guess it by the way the average farmer in our region, anyways, makes his living. It is very much limited to a family oriented, and self-sustaining enterprise, as far as I can make out from observing the average farmer that I come into contact with. Outside of the sugar cane industry (and rubber), I don't any see major companies involved in mass cultivation, so how Thailand is the world's leading exporter in rice is beyond my observation, so far.
EDIT: I forgot to mention mangoes, papaya, berries, and bananas, which are grown, and eaten, in abundance in this area. Fruit is a very major part of the local diet, whether scrounged, or purchased at the market (bamboo and lotus stems are also very popular, and easily scroungable).
i don't think you have to worry about the spider starving anytime soon. i personally, would just do what you always do... keep the porch light off except when you need it on
oh, and Shawn M.... i know all about silverfish. at least, perhaps their distant relative. we have a lot of them here and we call them "house centipedes". they are wicked fast and i have heard that if you actually have the misfortune of getting bitten by one, it is incredibly painful, like a bee sting. only the big ones are capable of piercing skin though. sad to say that i do kill them, but mostly, i am just worried about my pets. i don't see them too incredibly often though as they prefer dark places.
it looks like it's playing with a ball, haha.
just prior to noticing that someone unearthed this thread, i was watching a spider on my drape. i felt no animosity toward him and simply let him be. after remembering this thread, i wonder if perhaps my practice has had a positive effect on me... but then again, i think i may still react the same if there were 50 spiders... it did feel at the time to be a necessary evil. why can't spiders understand the middle path!
How would you react if you found this Thai Centipiede under your pillow? Very common occurrence in the rainy season! Even better, they have something I have fortunately not seen called the Elephant Scorpion. God forbid if a snake slithered into my room.
um.... :eek:
are they dangerous? can they bite? that thing is terrifying...
metta to all sentient beings
yes yes. i'm told it hurts like hell. but not dangerous except perhaps for small children?
true. though there are some irrigation canals here and there, and if you are fortunate to have land near a river you can get in 2 crops, even in Isaan. They syphon the water right out
I cannot discuss the general gov't neglect of the poor in this country. too frustrating of a topic! Though in the recent decade a lot of good changes have been made, but never enough.. All the same, the average poor family is much more well off here than in neighboring Cambodia
getting hold of a giant red ant nest or bee hive from a tree is another story. very painful experience. i have to say that rarely do have a problem killing ants if they bite, but if they are just minding their own business and I squash one, I contemplate the motive behind the killing. I leave bees alone. I am very at peace with them and they never sting me, no matter how much they might like to hang around
I agree with your wife, although you should only kill 'pests' if they are just, say, walking along and aren't in your house or anything. That's just being a jerk. Here in England we have a product called Quorn which is like a healthy fake meat. I think it's disgusting though to kill something just because you can make it up later, it's serious abuse of life and IS DISGUSTING. IMO.
i agree. that statement was the result of a cultural misunderstanding. my wife set me straight. :rolleyes:
i've been thinking about this. someone said turn off the porch light when you don't need it. in our case, with the centipedes, i was able to stop the problem by buying a bed to put our mattress on and not sleeping on the floor anymore (which I prefer). But I haven't had a centipede since. I guess there are a lot of things we can do to prevent the need for insect slaughter from arising in the first place.
i could gently brush an ant that is biting me off my leg, rather than squash it, then remove myself from the vicinity of his hole in ground.
does this sound too simplistic? if nothing else, it would save me a lot of chanting!
You like sleeping on the floor? I suppose it is quite hot in Thailand, isn't it? (?) But on a cold night in England I love wrapping my blankets around myself, although on really hot nights I sometimes just sprawl out on the floor
yes. the floor is a good thing. i guess if i couldn't afford to buy a bed, i could always get some big tweezers and catch that centipede. but let me tell you, those things move (and disappear) quick!
i don't envy you your cold nights. may i never see snow again
you should come to Thailand and see what happens. it'll be more than the weather that batters you when you return to Heathrow.. reverse culture shock is a lot of fun. very enlightening
oh yeah and zombiegirl love the avatar big fan of MSI myself
i didn't know spiders could swim?
i know what you mean. it makes me feel so silly... but terrified!
and yep. this album is probably my favorite.
there are certain species that can walk on the water. i learned that during a horrible tubing trip down a very small river with tons of bushes hanging over either side. if you happen to run into a bush (which were very difficult to avoid), several spiders would fall on your tube... and these things could be as big as a couple inches! you can try flipping your tube, but they'll just skate around on the water. *shivers*
my knees were so bruised from flipping out of my tube onto the rocks in the river. and the funny part was i was accompanying my catholic friend with her youth group and we had to go to church the next day. anyone who has ever been to catholic church will understand why this became so painful. sit down. stand up. kneel. sit. kneel. stand. kneel. kneel. kneel. ugh.
I personally think that you should learn from your experience. You had intent of sucking spider up a vacuum, so in all honesty that is not "right view" it most probably has cultivated a bit of bad kamma. But the probelm comes in that you feel terrible about it. That too is not a constructive emotion and you need to stop dwelling it and nip kamma in the bud before it blossoms. The fact that you feel terrible is the the result of you not being mindful about the spiders, therefore as you can see Kamma has already cultivated. If you want to wheel of kamma to cease, you need to reflect and meditate and make sure that your "terrible feeling" doesn't snowball into the more serious results of long term kamma. I always see kamma this way:
If you have an assignment to write an essay, and you are struggling to get your point across and you get frustrated with youself. Eventually you get so irretated that you tear what you have written. Then you walk away and watch tv, and before you know it, it is time to go to bed. The next day your assignment is due and you don't have anything to hand in. The lecturer fails you and is dissapointed in you. You get angry at the lecturer and for the rest of the year you don't feel motivated to work in the class and your points drop... etc etc etc.
All that started from being irretated with youself. If you were able to control the "wrong view" you would not have ripped up the piece of paper and you could at least have handed in something and not failed.
So don't feel terrible and don't beat yourself up about it. Reflect and make sure that you stop the turn of kamma. I personaly don't think you can make kamma stop turning by accumilating merits, the only way you can stop Kamma from cultivating result is if you are mindful and make absolutely sure that your intention is always pure. The Buddha Sakyamuni has tought a way of checking your intention and checking wether you are cultivating black or white kamma. In more simple terms it goes something liek this: (From the book good,evil beyond)
Primary Factors
• Inquiring into the roots of actions, whether the intentions for them arose from one of the skillful roots of non-greed non-aversion or non-delusion, or from one of the unskillful roots of greed, aversion or delusion.
• Inquiring into the effects on the psyche, or mental well-being, of actions: whether they render the mind clear, calm and healthy; whether they promote or inhibit the quality of the mind; whether they encourage the arising of skillful conditions and the decrease of unskillful conditions, or vice versa.
Secondary Factors
1. Considering whether one’s actions are censurable to oneself or not (conscience).
2. Considering the quality of one’s actions in terms of wise teachings.
3. Considering the results of those actions:
a. towards oneself
b. towards others.
The Ill leave you with something out of the Dhammavadaka:
You, no less than all beings have Buddha Nature within. Your essential Mind is pure. Therefore, when defilements cause you to stumble and fall, let not remose nor dark foreboding cast you down. Be of good cheer and with this understanding, summon strength and walk on.