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how do i go forward
chanratt
Veteran
it has been a mere three months since i began practicing zazen and buddhism in general, and lately i feel uninspired. my meditation (15-20 mins a day) hasnt really bore any fruit and i end up just sitting there for the duration with thoughts swirling around making no progress. i now the 'desire'to progress will go against me as it is leading to further negative emotions like frustration. do iget a teacher? where do igofrom here?
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It is unsatisfactory right? Well there you have it, given to you on a platter chanratt. The whole thing is unsatisfactory and your lucky for it too. Because if you were feeling satisfied you would be doing something wrong. Remember "it's not about having an experience, but knowing whatever experience is present" the basic tone of your meditation experience will be unsatisfactory unless your entertaining yourself.
So.. there is your practice. What does it feel like to be unsatisfied.... to just sit there with no escape.... unsatisfied? No entertainment.
nowhere. because no matter what you do the satifaction will be temporary. Be unsatisfied. Sit there and be unsatisfied. get to know the feeling , the state of being unsatisfied. That is the only thing to do. No choice, you can delay, but in the end no choice.
A teacher will help you with that.
There is a story about the death of Oscar Wilde. As he lay on his deathbed in a hotel room, he pointed to the hideous wallpaper he was forced to spend his last hours looking at, and said "One of us has to go".
I'll find something that talks about it...
"Boredome is important in meditation practice; it increases the psychological sophistication of the practitioners. They begin to apprectate boredom and they develope sophistication until the boredom begins to become cool boredom, like a mountain river. It flows and flows and flows, methodically and repititiously, but it is very cooling, very refreshing. Mountains never get tired of being mountains, and waterfalls never get tired of being waterfalls. Because of their patience we begin to appreciate them. Tehre is something in that. If we are to save ourselves from spiritual materialism and from buddhadharma credentials, the introduction of boredeome and repetitiousness is extremely important"
In other words you are not off the path, just experiencing hot boredom. My suggestion is to instead of thinking of what you might be experiencing to add that wonder and excitement.... Instead just get really curious and in tune with what you ARE experiencing.. As Trungpa Rinpoche above says when you get into the states of cool boredom some of that pressure to do something is relieved and this is likened to cooling and refreshment..
Welcome to meditation
Mtns
well, one thing i am trying to accomplish is to simply silence my mind and achieve a meditative state. th progress i feel i am not making is that i am not achieving this nor am i getting a deeper understanding of the practice of zen
As far as I know you will never have a silent mind. There will always be something in there. If it ever goes quite you will probably say "Man, it's quite in here" and then the noise continues.
Just like everyone has said so far. Just sit. Keep it up.
Anyway, the fruit I've got from the practice hasn't been produced on the mat. It has reveled itself in the world. To be more precise it occurred on a city bus and in between towering apartment complexes.
Sit, sit, sit!
what do u mean 'it' occurred to you. do you mean enlightenment?
OH NO! I wouldn't dare say enlightenment. Even if I was enlightened I probably wouldn't know it.
When I was on the city bus going to work I looked at my forearm and BAM! I realized what was actually wasn't. I tried to explain it to the people I work with but they didn't get it.
When I was walking to the grocery store I cut through a large lot with many different apartment buildings on it. These were high-rises but to make it look better the property owners planted a lot of grass and trees. It was really nice. Well, while on this walk I made on a regular basis the wind blew and I seen a tree sway and a bird crossed the sky. BAM! I understood interconnectedness and that I am those things.
I had an intellectual understanding of these things but my practice helped bring these things into the world.
I had been meditating for about a six months when these things happened. Now these are big things, at least in my opinion, but a lot of smaller things happened to.
One thing I can say though is that after I had these experiences I still have to go to work like everyone else, I still have to eat just like everyone else, and I still get sick just like everyone else. It is just that I see these things differently now thanks to the fact that I sat for thirty minutes a day in silence.
brilliant! that's a great story. i think i will just keep doing what i'm doing and relax. my grandmother used to say 'a watched kettle never boils'. thank you for all your replies everyone
i like that as that is what i am trying to do
good luck fella.;)
i am a beginner and that story is written in the language that i am used to. other replies like 'what is a meditative state' did go right by me but i didn't ignore them. I have no answer to a question like that right now as it is something i have to think about. a lot of Zen literature has appeared confusing to me thus far, which is probably why i am here asking newbie questions and looking for help
I've been doing solitary meditation learned from books for over four years now. Quite often I feel very uninspired. Yet I haven't dropped it. Why? Sometimes I think I have a sort of, shall we say, glimpses into somewhere I really wanna be. So far that's been enough to keep me going...
And I agree, cliche answers like "just sit there" may not be very helpful.
You would really benefit from a teacher, and the company of other practioners, because that will encourage you to sit through very difficult states of aversion.
sorry for the snarky post earlier, but this is the real deal chanratt
As others have said, many do not consider completely "silencing" the mind, by way of cutting off all thoughts and becoming free of thoughts or "blank," the goal of meditation. Oftentimes different translations lead to confusion, as some words in sutras may not have an English equivalent.
I think it is important to sit while being silent, and observing the mind, even if it is chaotic and noisy. The important part is recognizing these as transient thoughts. It is very good that you can recognize your uneasiness, your boredom. While you are meditating you should be aware of such things, as the purpose is to be fully present in the moment.
I've always felt it was very important to remember that becoming attached to meditative or "deep" states to be just as distracting as material or worldly attachments. If you have a profound meditative insight, look at it the same way you view your transient thoughts - observe and let go.
It seems like many people think of meditation like some superhuman ability - as though practicing will give you mental powers, make you a better person, or solve your problems. Your life is the same as before you started practicing, and your problems remain whether or not you're on the meditation cushion. (Note: In this example I use the terms "you" and "your" in a general sense, and not in a specific way.) The point is to become aware of these problems and face them, instead of using meditation as a distraction.
Some teachers have recommended starting with very short intervals of meditation - really short, like one or two minutes - and to continue practicing until it becomes easier to remain in meditation for longer periods of time.
It's sort of like making good wine - it's just not something that can be rushed up in a day. It takes practice and patience. Grant me patience - NOW!
Mtns
Oh dear one, don’t ever use the word "simply" when talking about meditation. There is nothing simple.
My teacher tells us that it takes a minimum of 6 months to start to get anywhere on meditation, and a lifetime to perfect it. So be patient ... "little bit by little bit" he says.
Another thing my teacher tells us is that everything ... everything ... is grist for the practice. You’re bored? Work with that. You’ve got a headache? Work with that.
If you had a teacher, they would tell you that everything is progressing as normal. Yes, it is always a good "next step" to find a teacher.
I'm not a Zen practitioner, but I've done breathing meditation.
In that practice, you gently bring the mind back again and again to the sensation of the breath.
Distractions, like boredom or lack of inspiration, naturally arise and it is even good that they do, for it is an opportunity to train our mind in concentration. Gently bringing the mind back to the object of concentration IS the practice.
If we have a "good" session, where we concentrate easily, then this is nice. We get to experience some peace and it's good for our health. This is like a stroll in the park for our mind.
If we have a "bad" session, with lots of distractions, this is good too. This is where we learn how to direct our mind in the presence of pain, fear, etc. This is where we learn detachment and self-mastery. This is like weight-training for our mind.
I don't know if zazen is the same thing, but I hope this helps.
May I just say that you cannot make your mind shut up. There is a skillful means for this... Don't shut up. Give your mind permission to flap in the wind all it needs to...blah blah blah blah. Make that your practice, just sit there and let your crazy hyper mind carry on. You have no choice short of anesthetic, which would make you dull. So you are doomed to this chattering mind being precisely what it is. Let it be what it is, Your job is to just sit there, sit still and let your mind go wild. Let it go wild, give it permission, watch yourself get sucked into thought then snap back to awareness of sitting there, over and over and over again.
This is sound instruction. My guess is you want something else though. So I won't offer anymore. If you want talk about it sometime, PM me.
In the mean time good luck ( without the snark this time:))
yeah skull. i have actually been trying to up the time i practice. as for a place where i can mediate 24 hours, i dont think so though we do have a couple of zen centers. problem is i have 3 kids and find it a blessing that i can even get the time to meditate at all. I am going to consider all of the above advice and just keep it up