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Eightfold path and the paramis

edited July 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I'm a little confused about the relation between the eightfold path and paramis. Are they different ways of cultivation? The same thing in slightly different words?

Hope someone can help me with this.

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I'm not certain.. The paramitas are the perfections that a bodhisattva practices with to develope the wisdom and compassion to help beings..

    Mahayana

    The 8 fold path is developed likewise to free yourself from ignorance, anger, and desire...


    My teacher says that we can benefit from thinking about both of these, but that we don't truly enter it as a wisdom perfection (in the case of paramita) until we have a view of emptiness. Likewise we don't enter the 8 fold path buddha was talking about until we have our vision of reality shaken. In other words we become not so sure of things and more in a wonder. Until then we can still use both paths as inspiration I feel and contemplate them and see what we can get out of them.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited July 2010
    There are many "shopping lists for enlightenment".
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I would consider the eight fold path as the general structure one could follow, from the most basic, ignorant mind all the way through fully developed. Once there is a relatively stable view of emptiness, the paramita are just deeper refinements to right intention and right view.
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited July 2010
    The paramis in Theravadin literature

    The story of Sumedha and the paramis is related in the Buddhavamsa, which is found in the Khuddaka Nikaya, or Minor Collection, of the Pali Canon. The stories in the Buddhavamsa , like those in the Jatakas (stories of the many lives of our bodhisattva), are viewed by scholars as later additions to the Canon and somewhat apocryphal.

    They do not carry the authenticity of the Buddha's voice as do the other four Nikayas (Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, and Anguttara), Sutta Nipata , Dhammapada , Udana, and Itivuttaka.

    Although the Buddha spoke often of these ten wholesome qualities individually, the listing of the '10 paramis' by itself, does not appear even once in the above texts which are the most authentic words of the Buddha .

    However, from the early days of Theravada Buddhism, the paramis were viewed as the essential elements of the path to buddhahood and hence closely identified with the bodhisattva path. Contrary to common belief, the bodhisattva path has always been one of three options within Theravada, the others being those of the arahant and the pacekkabuddha (one who is self-realized but doesn't teach).

    As Buddhism evolved after the Buddha's demise, the concept of paramis was introduced. As noted, the word "Parami", in the sense of our present understanding of it, cannot be found in the early scriptures of the Pali Canon. It only started to appear in the later scriptures now found in the Khuddaka Nikaya (Minor Collections).

    According to this concept, if one gives dana with the hope of getting some form of worldly return, it is not parami, but just mundane merits.

    When something is done without thinking of the returns one can get but done just for the sake of doing good, that is parami.

    One good example is giving something useful to someone who needs it at the right time, without considering how much kammic returns the dana will bring.

    Or, when the motive is to gain liberation from greed, hatred and delusion, to become free of any notions of selfishness or conceit, is also parami.
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited July 2010
    PARAMIS:* The Ten Perfections


    1. *Dana*: Generosity
    May I be generous and helpful
    2. *Sila*: Morality
    May I be well-disciplined and refined in manners.
    May I be pure and clean in all my dealings.
    May my thoughts, words and deeds be pure.
    3. *Nekkhama*: Renunciation
    May I not be selfish and self-possessive, but selfless and
    disinterested.
    May I be able to sacrifice my pleasure for the sake of others.
    4. *Panna*: Wisdom
    May I be wise and able to see things as they truly are.
    May I see the light of truth and lead others from darkness to light.
    May I be enlightened and be able to enlighten others.
    5. *Viriya*: Energy
    May I be energetic, vigorous and persevering.
    May I strive diligently until I achieve my goal.
    May I be fearless in facing dangers and courageously surmount all obstacles.
    May I be able to serve others to the best of my ability.
    6. *Khanti*: Patience
    May I ever be patient.
    May I be able to bear and forbear the wrongs of others.
    May I ever be tolerant and see the good and beautiful in all.
    7. *Sacca*: Truthfulness
    May I ever be truthful and honest.
    May I not swerve from the path of truth.
    8. *Adhitthana*: Determination
    May I be firm and resolute and have an iron will.
    May I be soft as a flower and firm as a rock.
    May I ever be high-principled.
    9. *Metta*: Loving Kindness
    May I ever be kind, friendly and compassionate.
    May I be able to regard all as my brothers and sisters and be one with all.
    10. *Upekkha*: Equanimity
    May I ever be calm, serene, unruffled and peaceful.
    May I gain a balanced mind.
    May I have perfect equanimity.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2010
    zeke wrote: »
    I'm a little confused about the relation between the eightfold path and paramis. Are they different ways of cultivation? The same thing in slightly different words?

    Yes, I think that's about right. Different traditions have different approaches.

    P
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited July 2010
    I'm a little confused about the relation between the eightfold path and paramis. Are they different ways of cultivation? The same thing in slightly different words?

    From a Mahayana perspective, the paramitas and the eightfold path (as presented in the Mahayana) are condensations of the same (Bodhisattva) path. However, the paramitas are given more relevance in Mahayana texts (for example, in Maitreya's Ornament of The Mahayana Sutras), and are considered a better exposition of the same truth by some (for example, Tsongkhapa).

    On the other hand, the 6 paramitas as presented in the Mahayana are not equivalent to the eightfold path as interpreted by Theravada, due to fundamental differences between Mahayana and Theravada tenets.
  • edited July 2010
    due to fundamental differences between Mahayana and Theravada tenets

    is this hinyana vs mayhayana ? if not what are the fundemental differences between mahayana and heravada tenets?
  • edited July 2010
    is this hinyana vs mayhayana ?

    No, Hinayana refers to the view and path of individuals. It is not a valid reference to modern Theravada.
  • edited July 2010
    Personally I think the Paramitas are just a "repackaging" of the Noble Eightfold Path, to make people think they are practicing less but in actual fact they are practicing just as much, even more in the same sitting.
  • edited July 2010
    dorje wrote: »
    Personally I think the Paramitas are just a "repackaging" of the Noble Eightfold Path, to make people think they are practicing less but in actual fact they are practicing just as much, even more in the same sitting.
    I think there is an element of truth to this but the six paramitas are structured in a way that makes works in tandem with the bodhisattva vow as well. Which gives them certain elements that are unique.
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited July 2010
    is this hinyana vs mayhayana ? if not what are the fundemental differences between mahayana and theravada tenets?

    The methods, what happens when someone reaches buddhahood, emptiness, buddha nature, the nature of mind, the difference in themes in the main sutras of each, different sets of vows, differences in the main objects of meditation, and other things that reflect on the path to liberation, the role of analytical meditation and debate and the importance of commentaries. That is just my personal opinion, though.
  • edited July 2010
    I think there is an element of truth to this but the six paramitas are structured in a way that makes works in tandem with the bodhisattva vow as well. Which gives them certain elements that are unique.

    I agree. What I'm trying to say is that if you analyse carefully any of the 6 Paramitas, you realize it is actually an amalgamation of two or more elements of the Noble Eightfold Path.

    We as human beings only see things in aggregates, therefore we tend to see 6 as less than 8, and immediately we think that the 6 Paramitas are easier to practice, because there 2 less elements compared to the Noble Eightfold Path. Little do they know that it is actually more difficult to practice.
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