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Do you consider yourself a "Self"?

clearviewclearview
edited July 2010 in Buddhism Basics
We can agree that there is no actual "self" . But as an unenlightened beings, do you still refer to yourself as "I" in your head? "I need to go to the bathroom" "I am hungry". We can understand on an intellectual level that there is no self, but unless we are fully enlightened we will not actually FEEL this. So my question to you guys is, on the quest for enlightenment, do you mentally view yourself as a "self" or do you try to steer away from it knowing it is an illusion even though you don't feel it yet because you aren't enlightened?

Comments

  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Do I consider myself a self? Well I most certainly do. Unfortunately things as they are won't play along. The little captain is a powerless pretense.

    As far as feeling no-I is concerned, you have it perfectly backwards. No one has ever felt an "I", not for a second.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited July 2010
    This may help: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/notself2.html
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2010
    clearview wrote: »
    We can agree that there is no actual "self" . But as an unenlightened beings, do you still refer to yourself as "I" in your head? "I need to go to the bathroom" "I am hungry". We can understand on an intellectual level that there is no self, but unless we are fully enlightened we will not actually FEEL this. So my question to you guys is, on the quest for enlightenment, do you mentally view yourself as a "self" or do you try to steer away from it knowing it is an illusion even though you don't feel it yet because you aren't enlightened?

    Yes.

    and

    No.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Even the Buddha referred to himself as "I" in conversation. The idea is not to dispute the delusional self but to realize that the delusional self created by the five aggregates is just that: the five aggregates. Thus there is no solid self or things belonging to a self in them.
    "And how is one afflicted in body but unafflicted in mind?

    There is the case where a well-instructed disciple of the noble ones .... does not assume form to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form.

    He is not seized with the idea that 'I am form' or 'Form is mine.' As he is not seized with these ideas, his form changes & alters, but he does not fall into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, or despair over its change & alteration.

    "He does not assume feeling to be the self...

    "He does not assume perception to be the self...

    "He does not assume fabrications to be the self...

    Nakulapita sutta

    "Who, O Lord, feels?"

    "The question is not correct," said the Exalted One. "I do not say that 'he feels.' Had I said so, then the question 'Who feels?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be 'What is the condition of feeling?' And to that the correct reply is: 'sense-impression is the condition of feeling; and feeling is the condition of craving.'"

    .....


    Pagguna sutta

    "Suppose a person were to gather or burn or do as he likes with the grass, twigs, branches, & leaves here in Jeta's Grove. Would the thought occur to you, 'It's us that this person is gathering, burning, or doing with as he likes'?"

    "No, lord. Why is that? Because those things are not our self nor do they pertain to our self."

    "In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit."

    Nathumhaka sutta

    I think full realization of not-self is a meditative insight as mere contemplation won't probably enlighten you but it certainly can be cultivated to let go and be less ego possessive. Practiced this way you can get a temporary taste of cessation of suffering.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2010
    Well put Deshy.

    It makes my "Yes and No" so much clearer!! :lol: :rolleyes:

    Good post.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Something I thought of when reading this post was the Buddha on vein thoughts.

    'I am, I am not, I will be, I will not be' Are vein thoughts which are a sickness, ulcer and a thorn.

    Abandoning these thoughts one becomes a "Silent One".
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited July 2010
    federica wrote: »
    Well put Deshy.

    It makes my "Yes and No" so much clearer!! :lol: :rolleyes:

    Good post.

    Thanks ... Well the short answer is yes and no ... i think :D
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited July 2010
    Is neither an acceptable answer?
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited July 2010
    "I need to go to the bathroom"

    I wouldn't want to mess myself.
  • kannadakannada
    edited July 2010
    clearview wrote: »
    We can agree that there is no actual "self" . But as an unenlightened beings, do you still refer to yourself as "I" in your head? "I need to go to the bathroom" "I am hungry". We can understand on an intellectual level that there is no self, but unless we are fully enlightened we will not actually FEEL this. So my question to you guys is, on the quest for enlightenment, do you mentally view yourself as a "self" or do you try to steer away from it knowing it is an illusion even though you don't feel it yet because you aren't enlightened?
    Where there are thoughts there is "I" and "Other".

    Where there are no thoughts there is no 'I' nor 'other'.

    An "I" searching for enlightenment (nirvana) is futile.
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