Necessity of sleep

Fenix

Its it healthy or so, to deliberatly cut down sleeping, or that do you get used to it is what Im asking? Also when I get up first thing I do is meditate. I Have to wake up for half an hour though cause Im usually pretty drowsy (after 7+ hours). Should I just meditate straight away or is it good to wait for a while to regroup?

P.S. Interesting thing, this morning in meditation I suddenly relized that I was experiencing this strong sickness in the bottom of my stomach, like when your stomach drops, but only in this chronic manner. It lasted for a couple of minutes and I almost had to throw up it was so strong. I dont know is this just because of say something I ate or a possible virus. Has anyone experienced something like this causing from meditation. It was weird

jinzang

Do whatever works best for you, just try to practice every day.

Dazzle

Hi Fenix,

You shouldn't need to sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours.

Meditating after you've got up and had a wash is a good time - but it doesn't really matter which time of the day you meditate, as long as you try to do a little every day. Start with about 10 mins and then you can increase it eventually.

The stomach problem sounds like a bug or maybe something you ate.

This is a Buddhist meditation series which might be helpful to you - here's the first one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o



Kind regards,

Dazzle

Cristina

I often get nauseous when I'm anxious or excited or have a sudden thought/feeling that is quite powerful, like coming across an old note I saved from my ex boyfriend. And meditation can often bring up things like this...just a thought. I've actually thrown up many times from anxiety, almost always in the morning within an hour or two of getting up.

I heard recently that 7 hours is supposed to be good for sleeping. But who knows, scientists seem to change their minds a lot.

Fenix

I meditate morning a evenings for 40min. Is this a bit of a overkill, I think yes, so I may cut down a bit. Been doing on a daily basis for 8 months now

Cristina wrote: »

I heard recently that 7 hours is supposed to be good for sleeping. But who knows, scientists seem to change their minds a lot.

Hihi, science, it tickles

lightwithin

I tried meditating in the morning, but I am just too sleepy to focus properly. I take a long time to wake up and I do better meditating at night a while before bed.

ThailandTom

Did you have this feeling in your stomach after just waking up? Sometimes if you are really hungry and have a totally empty stomach you feel sick. Seeing as you may have just woken up, unless you sleep walk to the fridge you may well have been overly hungry? I have noticed phases of hunger because a few times I have fasted. First of all I seem to realise I am hungry and desire food, then you start to get an empty feeling and then I started to feel sick which lasted about 2-5 minutes. After that passes I was not really hungry for a while then it comes back again but worse.

I often meditate when my mind and body is not too tried, I often do it after lunch and after dinner, but everyone has their personal preference.
I use to sleep 5 hours every night when I was younger up until the age of maybe 18. I use to feel fine and never tired, now I sleep 7-8 hours and feel tired if I am honest lol. My friend sleeps 9-10 hours a night so again, everyone is different. But I have heard if you sleep less than 5 hours a night it is quite unhealthy and the perfect amount of time is 8 hours.
Monks do not sleep much or even eat much food and they live for the majority long lives. I wonder why, maybe their extreme practice of meditation and loving kindness...

Tom

huike

lightwithin wrote: »

I tried meditating in the morning, but I am just too sleepy to focus properly. I take a long time to wake up and I do better meditating at night a while before bed.

I have a shower immediately after waking up in the morning, that consents me to be properly awake for meditation and in the same time to wash.

ThailandTom

This is what I tend to do as soon as I wake up is jump into the shower. It wakes you up pretty quick and you feel fresh after :P But, I find I am still not in the right frame of mind to meditate personally. I must admit though, I am pretty slack with meditation and it sometimes gets me down. I can only meditate for 15 minutes at a time max until I lose concentration and give in opening my eyes. Recently though, I have realised once I open my eyes I automatically shut them again as if going back to sleep in the morning, but going back into meditation for a while..

Mountains

There's lots of research that says that a healthy adult needs at least 8-9 hours of sleep. Since the invention of the electric light bulb and its widespread introduction about 100 years ago, the average adult sleeps about 2.5 hours less per night on average than they did before electric lights. People today think you're lazy (or depressed) if you say you need 9 hours of sleep, but it's perfectly normal and very healthy for you. Can you survive on less? Most certainly. Can you survive and be really healthy? Probably not in the long term. Chronic sleep deprivation, especially if you regularly get less than about 7 hours can lead to many long term health problems, both mental and physical.

As for feeling nauseated - I seriously doubt that has anything to do with meditating. Try getting up and putting just a bite or two of something in your stomach. That nausea could be due to low blood glucose levels after sleeping. I'm one of the people who needs to eat straight away when I get up for the same reason. Just a couple of gulps of juice or a small piece of fruit usually does it for me. Then you can meditate and go back for a bigger breakfast (if you need it) later.

Mtns

Whoknows

Morning sickness?

huike

Mountains wrote: »

There's lots of research that says that a healthy adult needs at least 8-9 hours of sleep. Since the invention of the electric light bulb and its widespread introduction about 100 years ago, the average adult sleeps about 2.5 hours less per night on average than they did before electric lights. People today think you're lazy (or depressed) if you say you need 9 hours of sleep, but it's perfectly normal and very healthy for you. Can you survive on less? Most certainly. Can you survive and be really healthy? Probably not in the long term. Chronic sleep deprivation, especially if you regularly get less than about 7 hours can lead to many long term health problems, both mental and physical.

As for feeling nauseated - I seriously doubt that has anything to do with meditating. Try getting up and putting just a bite or two of something in your stomach. That nausea could be due to low blood glucose levels after sleeping. I'm one of the people who needs to eat straight away when I get up for the same reason. Just a couple of gulps of juice or a small piece of fruit usually does it for me. Then you can meditate and go back for a bigger breakfast (if you need it) later.

Mtns

I don't know about the research you are talking about, but i trust you. This is what is read for example on the mini-site about sleep at Harward (and i said: if it's Harvard can it be wrong??)
Recently a british study found out that the ideal sleep time is betweern 6.5 and 8 hours, more you get depressed or something. I've read it in a newspaper. I'm sorry i cannot give reference.

Also as ThailandTom said the monks of many monasteries (japan, thailand...) sleep just a few hours every night, 3 or 4 and live long lives. In some training halls in Japan they sleep 3 hours and stay up in the zazen posizion, during nighttime sitting, until they faint...:o
I personally know a senior Zen person who has slept just 3 hours every night for many years, and he is perfectly fine. Single cases don't constitute 'proof' or reseach but, that is what i have...

chiangmaigreg

Some of the meditation courses I do in Thailand only allow 6 hours sleep per night and then after 18 days 4 hours sleep followed by 3 days of no sleep at all.This is fine for those of us spending our days in meditation,no cooking,no working,just meditating.For those of us who are going to work or to school or whatever I must say probably 6 hours at the least.
I hope that your stomach problem has resolved itself.
With metta

DaltheJigsaw

chiangmaigreg wrote: »

Some of the meditation courses I do in Thailand only allow 6 hours sleep per night and then after 18 days 4 hours sleep followed by 3 days of no sleep at all.This is fine for those of us spending our days in meditation,no cooking,no working,just meditating.For those of us who are going to work or to school or whatever I must say probably 6 hours at the least.
I hope that your stomach problem has resolved itself.
With metta

Exactly!

being

Sleep hour needs are very personal. You should find out what works for you best. Some people don't sleep very deep, so they might need more sleep than others and the other way around. A friend of mine sleeps ~11 hours and says that he would feel tired, if he didn't. It works for him, why not.
Highly developed meditators (monks) usually can do with very little sleep (~5 hours and less), since their mind and body are so much 'in harmony' with everything. No restless mind tiring the body for the whole day etc.

BonsaiDoug

I'm fortunate in that I'm retired. I have the luxury of time; and I don't waste it sleeping.

I find 6-6½ hours works out nicely. Plus, the early morning hours are perfect for meditating; wife not up yet, and a quiet neighborhood.

Zayl

When I wake up in the morning, I generally do some rigorous stretching, then go for some walking meditation before returning home, sitting down, lighting some incense and doing some sitting meditation. The Stretching will help you to wake up a lot faster as it gets your blood flowing and forces you to focus on something, then the walking meditation while still being meditation makes it so that you do not simply get drowsy again after stretching.

To me, meditating in the morning "starts the day off right" so to speak and I will generally have a much easier time with right speech, right action, right practice etc, and it also seems that the mind is more open to meditation early in the morning where your head is not so full of worries and problems of the modern day and age.

PietroPumokin

i've experienced pains in my innards before during meditation i think it's just the body saying hello to itself

formermonkJohn

Im manic depressive and need about 12 hrs or more sleep most of the time, when I get manic I sleep much less though and have to fight the desire to just not sleep at all which will propel me at least into a psychotic state, Ive gone up to two weeks without any sleep and believe me WE NEED SLEEP< SLEEP IS NATURAL AND GOOD, however I have heard stories that some enlightened beings need much less sleep than average, I would resist the notion that forcing yourself to sleep less is going to help anything, your body knows how much sleep it needs and tells you quite directly.....

sincerely john

meditationman

Fenix wrote: »

P.S. Interesting thing, this morning in meditation I suddenly relized that I was experiencing this strong sickness in the bottom of my stomach, like when your stomach drops, but only in this chronic manner. It lasted for a couple of minutes and I almost had to throw up it was so strong. I dont know is this just because of say something I ate or a possible virus. Has anyone experienced something like this causing from meditation. It was weird

Sounds like you took some medication on an empty stomach, perhaps?

Fenix

[quote=Fenix;120083]

P.S. Interesting thing, this morning in meditation I suddenly relized that I was experiencing this strong sickness in the bottom of my stomach, like when your stomach drops, but only in this chronic manner. It lasted for a couple of minutes and I almost had to throw up it was so strong. I dont know is this just because of say something I ate or a possible virus. Has anyone experienced something like this causing from meditation. It was weird[/quote]

Sounds like you took some medication on an empty stomach, perhaps?

No. It was just an interesting thing.

Ada_B

I agree that you probably need breakfast. Also, I would suggest you have a look at your diet - too many 'fast' sugars and refined carbohydrate can mean you burn off your food too quickly, leaving you feeling starving. Too much caffeine can have a similar effect.

The amount of sleep you need varies according to the person, and their lifestyle. Some people need little sleep, others need more. I have heard that if you have more than 9 hours per night, you risk depression. Or does depression make you sleep? Then again, too little sleep can be very bad for you and a lot of people in the West are permanently tired due to lack of quality sleep.

Most people find they need 7-9 hours per night, but the quality is as important as the quantity.

Also, someone mentioned SAD recently (Seasonal Affective Disorder). Many people in the North suffer from problems due to low light levels in winter, which can make you fatigued and depressed.

Then again, as a person with an illness that can mean I sleep 14+ hours in a night, I have learned to accept that I need a lot of sleep. Acceptance has proved far more beneficial to my practice than constantly battling my tendency to drop off.

Vincenzi

Its it healthy or so, to deliberatly cut down sleeping, or that do you get used to it is what Im asking? Also when I get up first thing I do is meditate. I Have to wake up for half an hour though cause Im usually pretty drowsy (after 7+ hours). Should I just meditate straight away or is it good to wait for a while to regroup?

yes, if you are careful.
meditation can replace sleep in a partial way, this means... sleep 3 to 5 hours if you are meditating (anapanasati and jhána) 40 minutes or more per day.

P.S. Interesting thing, this morning in meditation I suddenly relized that I was experiencing this strong sickness in the bottom of my stomach, like when your stomach drops, but only in this chronic manner. It lasted for a couple of minutes and I almost had to throw up it was so strong. I dont know is this just because of say something I ate or a possible virus. Has anyone experienced something like this causing from meditation. It was weird

use mudras (hand gestures) to give back prana (energy) to the "environment". i suggest this 3 mudras: thumb on index finger (1st finger), thumb on 2nd finger, and all fingers united (thumbs united optional) ...like holding a sphere (regulates prana internally)

Fenix

Its it healthy or so, to deliberatly cut down sleeping, or that do you get used to it is what Im asking? Also when I get up first thing I do is meditate. I Have to wake up for half an hour though cause Im usually pretty drowsy (after 7+ hours). Should I just meditate straight away or is it good to wait for a while to regroup?

yes, if you are careful.
meditation can replace sleep in a partial way, this means... sleep 3 to 5 hours if you are meditating (anapanasati and jhána) 4 minutes or more per day.

Ok, I do about 3 hours of anapansati a day. I never have to sleep again, jihuu!

Vincenzi

not exactly, 3 hours of "common sleep" as minimum... unless you want to meditate the whole night (8 hours).

(...)
Ok, I do about 3 hours of anapansati a day. I never have to sleep again, jihuu!

Fenix

o. ok

shadowleaver

I'm finding that the amount of sleep I need is affected by how my waking life is going at the moment. When I am dissatisfied with my days, I could sleep all 10 hours. If I'm looking forward to them, 7 hours will do just fine. For instance, I have rarely felt truly satisfied with weekday activities such as studying or work so getting up on the weekdays has often been a struggle. On the weekends or holidays, however, I often manage to wake up just fine early in the morning without an alarm clock. It's been like that since kindergarden

That is, I do not believe that there is a set number of hours of sleep that a person needs-- it is a bit more complicated than that.A human body is a system such that each aspect of it influences every other. However, in my case, I can't imagine doing fine while sleeping less than 7 hours a day over any significant period of time.

Kartari

Its it healthy or so, to deliberatly cut down sleeping, ...

I think it's healthy to let your body decide that, rather than your ideas about how much sleep you think you "should" be getting. If you can have an alert and content life sleeping 7 hours a day, do that. If you need 8 a day, then do that. I think that forcing yourself to sleep less is a bad idea. Unless you're getting like 10+ hours a day, which is a sign that there's something wrong with your health (e.g. mental or physical illness).

Also when I get up first thing I do is meditate. I Have to wake up for half an hour though cause Im usually pretty drowsy (after 7+ hours). Should I just meditate straight away or is it good to wait for a while to regroup?

A Buddhist teacher once mentioned to me that he thinks it's best to meditate after taking a shower in the morning. This is because taking a shower is a bit jarring, if you think about it. So meditating before a shower, then jarring your senses with a shower might be a little counterproductive. Also, I think meditating while still drowsy from sleep might be a significant hindrance to meditating well.

Then again, if you are masterful at meditation, I imagine a shower will not jar you, nor will drowsiness interfere with your awareness.

P.S. Interesting thing, this morning in meditation I suddenly relized that I was experiencing this strong sickness in the bottom of my stomach, like when your stomach drops, but only in this chronic manner. It lasted for a couple of minutes and I almost had to throw up it was so strong. I dont know is this just because of say something I ate or a possible virus. Has anyone experienced something like this causing from meditation. It was weird

Could be a number of possibilities there, hard to say. Sometimes, we can experience weird sensations. Maybe if something emotional is going on, it might come out physically as some kind of pain or other sensation, especially during or after a meditation. This is usually a temporary event, however. So long as it is not recurring and is not significantly painful, personally I'd not be troubled by it. Otherwise, could be from spoiled food, a stomach virus, or other medical issue. If it bothers you, definitely go get it checked out.