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even an ant put into the water will struggle to survive , a bud of plant will break through the thick wall for it's growth, babies will fight for their milk, men for their women, women for their children, etc , that is the basic cling for living beings
Nios answered some of my own question I have been having since looking into Buddhism but also stirred some confusion and a few questions .
Hi Jakbob,
I'm glad you found what I said helpful. Your other questions seem to have been answered quite well but I just want to re-iterate this point more clearly;
For example, you say acceptance of suffering is bad and not part of buddhism, but a better way to put that is learning how to properly deal with it. Is this what you mean?
Acceptance of suffering isn't "bad". In Buddhism, we try to stay clear of the "good/bad" senario. Buddha taught in terms of skillful and unskillful. As someone has already pointed out, simply accepting suffering is unskillful because the problem of suffering doesn't go away. However, understanding the root and cause of the suffering/why it's come about and how it can be stopped, is very skillful.
The way many of you describe "clinging" fits with a person who is very obsessive about many things. I.e- Not your typical person. I could be wrong but most people I see don't seem to be very clingy about many things. Or am I looking at it wrong?
Not necessarily wrong IMO but I think you are just looking at the most extreme examples. Clinging can be a very subtle activity that is barely noticeable. Clinging can be found anywhere there is the thought or idea which says "I like that or want that" or "I don't like that or want that". For example, if someone loses their job and they get upset, sad or angry, there is clinging involved. If someone cuts you off on the freeway and then gives you the middle finger and that causes anger or irritation, there is clinging involved.
Most people's lives are centered around getting what they want and avoiding what they don't want and get upset if things don't go according to their plan. That entire process is a result of clinging.
The way many of you describe "clinging" fits with a person who is very obsessive about many things. I.e- Not your typical person. I could be wrong but most people I see don't seem to be very clingy about many things. Or am I looking at it wrong?
Imagine that you bought a great-looking steak with the intention of grilling it. You spend time looking for a good recipe and marinading the meat. You anticipate a great meal in your immediate future. Then you put it on the grill and for whatever reason you forget to check up on it in time, and the meat is ruined. You will feel disappointment and maybe even a bit of anger directed at yourself. Those feelings would be caused by you "clinging" to the successful outcome of cooking. (A better word is probably "attachment")
So basically, anyone, not just buddhist sometimes, who is like that ALWAYS mellow lax person and you just think to yourself "How do they do that? Be so calm when your brand new car was just totaled" thats the state of mind we are searching for? o.0
So basically, anyone, not just buddhist sometimes, who is like that ALWAYS mellow lax person and you just think to yourself "How do they do that? Be so calm when your brand new car was just totaled" thats the state of mind we are searching for? o.0
Sort of. But such state of mind shouldn't be pursued with the thought of "Let me show the world how cool and relaxed I am in a difficult situation" - because that's an ego trap in itself. It should come from an understanding that attaching yourself to that shiny still-has-that-smell brand new car is going to bring you only worries and "suffering" (in the Buddhist sense of that word). The car can still be useful to you even if you don't cling on to it, even if you realize that it's an impermanent object. Doesn't mean you shouldn't care about it, or drive it into the ground, or not look when you park, though.
Disclaimer: I'm still working through all of these concepts myself, but hopefully this makes some sense to you.
I get the concept of the clinging and attachment causing suffering but where does it say how to not do it? I havent seen any clear instructions on how to not be attached yet.
I get the concept of the clinging and attachment causing suffering but where does it say how to not do it? I havent seen any clear instructions on how to not be attached yet.
Basic meditation.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2010
hahahaaaa!!
There's the tough part!!
Now you've got it!
Believe it or not, you just have to - Let go.
Whenever you feel yourself craving something, just say, "It's ok, I can do without it...."
It's like Monks from Thailand prefer noodles and tofu, but they go to the USA and get Pizza and fries....
"They don't think:
"Oh dammit! I HATE Pizza and fries! I really don't want these, I would so much rather have my tofu and noodles! I really miss them!"
They simply think:
"Oh...ok...Pizza and fries....I can live with that....I'll have tofu and noodles again, it';s no big deal...in the meantime, I'll enjoy the pizza and fries, because someone has made the effort to make them, and give them to me...."
It's a question of relaxing the tension created by wishful thinking, craving and desire....
Relax the "I want" to "I could do with..." and eventually change that, to "I'm ok if I don't have it, I'm ok if I do...."
So if all experiences and all material possessions ultimately lead to nothing but suffering and grief then what is the point of even getting out of bed in the morning. I just think this concept is a bit depressing.
You made the concept depressing for youself in that phrase.
I get the concept of the clinging and attachment causing suffering but where does it say how to not do it? I havent seen any clear instructions on how to not be attached yet.
There are different kinds of meditation aimed at cutting through attachment; you could meditate on impermanence, emptiness, death, etc. Everything takes time, so don't expect instant results.
Have you thought about finding a qualified meditation teacher to ask about this?
Whenever you feel yourself craving something, just say, "It's ok, I can do without it...."
It's like Monks from Thailand prefer noodles and tofu, but they go to the USA and get Pizza and fries....
"They don't think:
"Oh dammit! I HATE Pizza and fries! I really don't want these, I would so much rather have my tofu and noodles! I really miss them!"
They simply think:
"Oh...ok...Pizza and fries....I can live with that....I'll have tofu and noodles again, it';s no big deal...in the meantime, I'll enjoy the pizza and fries, because someone has made the effort to make them, and give them to me...."
It's a question of relaxing the tension created by wishful thinking, craving and desire....
Relax the "I want" to "I could do with..." and eventually change that, to "I'm ok if I don't have it, I'm ok if I do...."
So if Im dying I would say "Im ok if I dont have life, it was nice being here but you cant win them all" ?
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited July 2010
"If" you're dying....?
Don't you mean "when"...?
And yes.
That would be it.
Zania- I admit that I am being lazy and not rereading the whole thread, but have you done any reading outside of here? HHDL maybe? Or Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche? Chogyam Trungpa? Pema Chodron? I realize it shows my Vajrayana "bias" to mention these and not others, but I'm sure the rest will help me out with this. I think if you were to read something kind of upbeat like Trungpa's Shambala stuff or Mingyur R.'s The Joy of Living you might see that there really is a happy side to this. Or watch some HHDL videos on YouTube. If he's not happy, then I don't know who is. I mean- just look:
It is depressing only because you feel attached to experiences and material possessions. Buddhism does not mean we should not experience life, as it is the attachment to the experiences, not the experiences themselves that causes suffering.
How does one go about doing this? Start with contentment. To be content is to be happy.
Thats completely idealistic. Do you tell a very depressed or grieving person "attachment causes your suffering so just be content" ? Im sure it would irritate them more than help.
Its like christians saying "just pray, if you dont get what you want then you're not praying hard enough" or new age books declaring "you can do anything, you just need to think positively". Unless someone can specifically give clear and precise instruction on how to make this actually work in ones life then I dont buy it. All Ive gotten so far is vague aphorisms.
"Breathe in, breathe out." How is that vague? How much clearer can you get than that? There is nothing vague about this. It is also very precise as well as very simple. You can't make it work just by thinking about it, it's not possible.
Thats completely idealistic. Do you tell a very depressed or grieving person "attachment causes your suffering so just be content" ? Im sure it would irritate them more than help.
Its like christians saying "just pray, if you dont get what you want then you're not praying hard enough" or new age books declaring "you can do anything, you just need to think positively". Unless someone can specifically give clear and precise instruction on how to make this actually work in ones life then I dont buy it. All Ive gotten so far is vague aphorisms.
Frankly, I'm starting to get a trolling vibe from you.
Buddhism consists of numerous religions built around scriptures written down by monks containing words attributed to the Buddha. The single common thread amongst all Buddhists is that we seek to end dukkha. The Buddha declared that this is all he taught. Even dukkha means very different things to different Buddhists. We are all on a path and not at the goal. We are all expressing our imperfect understanding through words which are subject to your personal biases and perceptions and interpretations.
In the end if you are genuinely, seriously interested in learning about Buddhism, then there must be a reason for it. What is your reason for seeking to learn about Buddhism? What brought you to this forum? Because, in the end, you're going to have to sit down and examine the 4 Noble Truths yourself.
Unless someone can specifically give clear and precise instruction on how to make this actually work in ones life then I dont buy it. All Ive gotten so far is vague aphorisms.
You don't have to buy it. Nobody's selling anything. We're just a group of people on the internet with our own opinions and understanding of Buddhist teachings. We're not here to push philosophy on other people. You asked a question, and we are trying to answer.
The questions you ask are not ones that are easily answered. The "clear and precise instructions" you request have been given to the best of our limited understanding. We have suggested books, meditation, personal instruction, etc, and if that's not good enough then I'm not sure what you're looking for.
There's no magic answer that will immediately assuage your doubts. You must seek the answer for yourself.
I don't think Zania's intentionally trolling. The fundamental thrust of Buddhism can be extremely difficult to get your mind around. Many very intelligent people from Friedrich Nietszche to Ayn Rand to Harold Bloom have been confounded by Buddhism. It's extremely easy to interpret the teaching as rather nihilistic and passive.
So if all experiences and all material possessions ultimately lead to nothing but suffering and grief then what is the point of even getting out of bed in the morning. I just think this concept is a bit depressing.
Part of the blame lies in an incomplete presentation of the Buddha's teaching. For example, we can get a better idea of what the Buddha meant by "dukkha" (dissatisfaction) if we keep in mind that he often contrasted it with "sukkha" (happiness). In the Dighajanu Sutta, the Buddha enumerates four sources of happiness in the present life available to lay people: constructive action, preventative action, virtuous friendship, and balanced lifestyle. For future lives, he lists four more sources of happiness: faith in the possibility of nibbana, virtue, generosity, and wisdom. That doesn't sound nihilistic, does it?
Another nuance is that Buddhism makes a distinction between what we might call the inevitable pain of life and the unnecessary suffering with often add into it. In the Sallatha Sutta, The Buddha used an analogy of two arrows. Life often hits us with the first arrow (the initial adversity -- the pain). But we often shoot ourselves with the second arrow (unnecessary mental anguish -- suffering): "When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts."
So, in essence, you weren't too far off when you asked:
Isnt suffering just a part of life that we need to accept instead of believing that we can get rid of it?
This is essentially what Buddhism is trying to teach us: how to relate to this life without causing ourselves unnecessary suffering. In other words, how to accept dukkha as an inevitable part of our life (one translation of "the four noble truths" I like is "the four ennobling realities") without shooting ourselves with the second arrow.
On last thing, the word often translated as "clinging" (tanha) is, in Classical Buddhism, often contrasted directly with the word often translated as "equanimity" (upekkha); upekkha means maintaining a balanced, nonjudgmental attitude in the face of life's ups and downs. It's the ability to take in life's rewards without becoming a megalomaniac or too grabby, and at the same time, to take life's blows and punches with a level-head. Read some biographies of people who have overcome great hardship, and you'll find this is a trait shared by all resilient people. Tanha is the opposite of this. It is also the ability to treat a king and a pauper (or, in modern times, a CEO and a homeless person) while seeing into the core of who they are. If you read the Suttas, you'll find the Buddha taught everyone who came to him for guidance, from powerful kings and princes to penniless laborers.
The teaching of anatta (not-self) is relevant here. The fact of the matter is, we need not "let go" of anything because we own nothing to begin with. Life is already in the process of prying it all from our cold, dead hands. Actually, we don't even own our hands. Our bodies are not our own, in the end, and neither are our experiences or possessions. All of life is like a breath: it comes, is, and passes away. So what does this mean for us and our habit of clinging to things out of the mistaken notion that we can own them? Ultimately, what we should contemplate is not that everything we cling to leads to suffering, but that all such things lead to nothing. That can sound nihilistic in its most basic definition, but it's actually quite liberating because we let go of so much unnecessary stuff -- including our misguided attempts to "own" happiness and "disown" suffering -- and begin to ask ourselves things like "What does love really mean, if I can't hold onto it?"
This is the reality we spend time sitting with in meditation. Life is passing us by. Are we awake for it? The Buddha, after all, means "the one who has woken up."
I get the concept of the clinging and attachment causing suffering but where does it say how to not do it? I havent seen any clear instructions on how to not be attached yet.
No, you don't get it.You have to read more , and also...use some real logic.
Thats completely idealistic. Do you tell a very depressed or grieving person "attachment causes your suffering so just be content" ? Im sure it would irritate them more than help.
Its like christians saying "just pray, if you dont get what you want then you're not praying hard enough" or new age books declaring "you can do anything, you just need to think positively". Unless someone can specifically give clear and precise instruction on how to make this actually work in ones life then I dont buy it. All Ive gotten so far is vague aphorisms.
It's clear that a very depressed or grieving person needs empathy, friendship, and perhaps the help of a qualified counselor.
However, if we are healthy and able to cope again, then its a good time to experiment with new ideas, provided that's what we want.
There are many ways to find peace and happiness; each individual should find out what works for him or her. Buddhism is just one way. Even if you're drawn to the ideas, it takes time and patience to develop a deep understanding of it. Attachment can be removed through the cultivation of the Noble Eightfold Path.
Zania, just to say a few words quickly. Like people have said nobody is here trying to convert you and nobody has a gun to your head either.
Buddhism is quite complex in certain areas and it is not so cut and dry as you may think. You can practice it for a number of years and still not have an in depth and broad understanding of it. You can read and read and read until your eyes bleed, but the best way to find these answers is to travel down the path for yourself. You can use what people say on here or the teachings of the buddha as basics and take it from there, but from my experience the best way to understand is to listen to a teacher and sit in silence and listen to yourself.
A caring and decent buddhist would not simply say to a depressed person, 'oh attachment is the root of your suffering so just be happy.' Even though this is partly true, it is nowhere near enough for them to begin to understand. Secondly, that is not being compassionate and compassion is one of the main aspects to being buddhist. Every depressed person has a story to tell and you would need to exercise compassion and listen, be warm and caring and try to see a clear way of helping. You won't always be able to help but all you can do is try, tom
First of all I haven't read anything but the original post.
I just wanted to say that I think the meaning of life is love. That's the only reason I get out of bed in the morning. To be kind to myself, to be kind to others, to strive for love in each moment.
It seems simple and something that I've been told over and over my whole life, but for some reason it clicked not too long ago and makes sense to me now, and it's just good enough for me.
hahahahaha, he's got a point. Junk food is bad, hardly food but most people will agree it taste good. It is all the fats and chemicals that are in it probably, KEEP AWAY PEOPLE
I get the concept of the clinging and attachment causing suffering but where does it say how to not do it? I havent seen any clear instructions on how to not be attached yet.
I do not claim to be a buddhist, and I'm not certain that what I am about to say will advance this dialogue in any way. I am posting because I have shared the OP's existential struggle.
My original goal for the study of Buddhism was to build a better life for myself. As I have studied, I have come to understand Buddhism as a tool box filled to the brim with tools that I could use to achieve that goal. Each tool has specific applcations and instructions for usage, but none of them can do the complete job by itself. Put another way, in the same way that there is no such thing as a single tool called a "home-builder" with an ergonomic design and a comfort-grip handle (swing it once and your home will be complete), there is no equivalent "Suffering-Ender" in the buddhist toolbox that can bring enlightnement in one easy swing.
My limited mind has distilled the following "tools" from this thread:
-Practice direct presence
-Practice compassion and love toward yourself and others
-Be patient
-Meditate, with guidance
-Learn, read, and seek with a focus on the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path.
-Accept that Dukkha exists and that we each choose how we experience it.
That is part of the toolkit that has been presented in this thread. It is enough to start building.
But wait...what about the why and how of building?
These are questions that I have struggled with for years, and the struggle has been fruitless. There is no universal ultimate answer to the question "Why", and seeking something that doesn't exist will always be an exercise in frustration and futility (In other words, a powerful source of dukkha). For me, the closest I have been able to come to an answer is to accept the reason I started studying buddhism in the first place.
Question: Why should I get out of bed in the morning"
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why should I read a buddhist forum?
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why should I use the tools in this thread?
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why bother attempting to build a better life amidst all this dukkha?
Answer: Because it is what I wanted in the first place...to build a better life for myself.
Now is the time to accept that I came here seeking to build a better life. Struggling against that is the definition of dukkha (for me).
Finally, "How?" is just another distraction (more dukkha). Simply start using the tools as you understand them. When you are on your own in the early stages, order doesn't matter. If you don't feel that you can use them skillfully, practice them in their simplest forms.
Love somebody.
Focus on this breath.
Recall the 4 noble truths.
Focus on this breath.
Love yourself.
Take a look at the thought that is in your head at this moment.
Let it be without judging it.
Let it go.
Luckily, you have another breath to focus on now, so do that.
If you find yourself getting frustrated, forgive yourelf and focus on another breath.
If somebody posts a confusing/frustrating response to your online query, forgive them and focus on your next breath.
If you have the thought, "this is pointless, why am I wasting my time?", let it come and go without carrying you along.
Seek contact with people of like mind and practice with them.
Seek contact with people who have a better understanding than your own and practice with them.
my head is spinning. welcome to thailand. i mean newbuddist.com
i'll take more time to read tomorrow. skimming two pages of this thread was just enough to make me inspired, yet dizzy. i like this forum so far.
Awareness, any daily excercise that increases awareness, opening our minds to all potentialities in any circumstance. i sensed a question about learning a road to ending suffering. "I have learned the secret of being content in any and every circumstance." I haven't really, but am working on it. Equanimity.
The Fear of Death is overrated.
sorry for the jumbled post, but I didn't feel much like going to sleep without making a contribution to this topic.
Comments
Hi Jakbob,
I'm glad you found what I said helpful. Your other questions seem to have been answered quite well but I just want to re-iterate this point more clearly;
Acceptance of suffering isn't "bad". In Buddhism, we try to stay clear of the "good/bad" senario. Buddha taught in terms of skillful and unskillful. As someone has already pointed out, simply accepting suffering is unskillful because the problem of suffering doesn't go away. However, understanding the root and cause of the suffering/why it's come about and how it can be stopped, is very skillful.
Nios.
no the three falls right through him...only to burst apart into a thousand hobbits that play cheerfull music...
Not necessarily wrong IMO but I think you are just looking at the most extreme examples. Clinging can be a very subtle activity that is barely noticeable. Clinging can be found anywhere there is the thought or idea which says "I like that or want that" or "I don't like that or want that". For example, if someone loses their job and they get upset, sad or angry, there is clinging involved. If someone cuts you off on the freeway and then gives you the middle finger and that causes anger or irritation, there is clinging involved.
Most people's lives are centered around getting what they want and avoiding what they don't want and get upset if things don't go according to their plan. That entire process is a result of clinging.
Imagine that you bought a great-looking steak with the intention of grilling it. You spend time looking for a good recipe and marinading the meat. You anticipate a great meal in your immediate future. Then you put it on the grill and for whatever reason you forget to check up on it in time, and the meat is ruined. You will feel disappointment and maybe even a bit of anger directed at yourself. Those feelings would be caused by you "clinging" to the successful outcome of cooking. (A better word is probably "attachment")
Sort of. But such state of mind shouldn't be pursued with the thought of "Let me show the world how cool and relaxed I am in a difficult situation" - because that's an ego trap in itself. It should come from an understanding that attaching yourself to that shiny still-has-that-smell brand new car is going to bring you only worries and "suffering" (in the Buddhist sense of that word). The car can still be useful to you even if you don't cling on to it, even if you realize that it's an impermanent object. Doesn't mean you shouldn't care about it, or drive it into the ground, or not look when you park, though.
Disclaimer: I'm still working through all of these concepts myself, but hopefully this makes some sense to you.
Basic meditation.
There's the tough part!!
Now you've got it!
Believe it or not, you just have to - Let go.
Whenever you feel yourself craving something, just say, "It's ok, I can do without it...."
It's like Monks from Thailand prefer noodles and tofu, but they go to the USA and get Pizza and fries....
"They don't think:
"Oh dammit! I HATE Pizza and fries! I really don't want these, I would so much rather have my tofu and noodles! I really miss them!"
They simply think:
"Oh...ok...Pizza and fries....I can live with that....I'll have tofu and noodles again, it';s no big deal...in the meantime, I'll enjoy the pizza and fries, because someone has made the effort to make them, and give them to me...."
It's a question of relaxing the tension created by wishful thinking, craving and desire....
Relax the "I want" to "I could do with..." and eventually change that, to "I'm ok if I don't have it, I'm ok if I do...."
You made the concept depressing for youself in that phrase.
There are different kinds of meditation aimed at cutting through attachment; you could meditate on impermanence, emptiness, death, etc. Everything takes time, so don't expect instant results.
Have you thought about finding a qualified meditation teacher to ask about this?
So if Im dying I would say "Im ok if I dont have life, it was nice being here but you cant win them all" ?
Don't you mean "when"...?
And yes.
That would be it.
I mean, if you're dying - you have a choice..?!?
Thats completely idealistic. Do you tell a very depressed or grieving person "attachment causes your suffering so just be content" ? Im sure it would irritate them more than help.
Its like christians saying "just pray, if you dont get what you want then you're not praying hard enough" or new age books declaring "you can do anything, you just need to think positively". Unless someone can specifically give clear and precise instruction on how to make this actually work in ones life then I dont buy it. All Ive gotten so far is vague aphorisms.
Please see my post above. Are you serious about doing some outside reading?
You already have but you don't like that answer for some reason.
"Breathe in, breathe out." How is that vague? How much clearer can you get than that? There is nothing vague about this. It is also very precise as well as very simple. You can't make it work just by thinking about it, it's not possible.
Frankly, I'm starting to get a trolling vibe from you.
Buddhism consists of numerous religions built around scriptures written down by monks containing words attributed to the Buddha. The single common thread amongst all Buddhists is that we seek to end dukkha. The Buddha declared that this is all he taught. Even dukkha means very different things to different Buddhists. We are all on a path and not at the goal. We are all expressing our imperfect understanding through words which are subject to your personal biases and perceptions and interpretations.
In the end if you are genuinely, seriously interested in learning about Buddhism, then there must be a reason for it. What is your reason for seeking to learn about Buddhism? What brought you to this forum? Because, in the end, you're going to have to sit down and examine the 4 Noble Truths yourself.
You don't have to buy it. Nobody's selling anything. We're just a group of people on the internet with our own opinions and understanding of Buddhist teachings. We're not here to push philosophy on other people. You asked a question, and we are trying to answer.
The questions you ask are not ones that are easily answered. The "clear and precise instructions" you request have been given to the best of our limited understanding. We have suggested books, meditation, personal instruction, etc, and if that's not good enough then I'm not sure what you're looking for.
There's no magic answer that will immediately assuage your doubts. You must seek the answer for yourself.
Part of the blame lies in an incomplete presentation of the Buddha's teaching. For example, we can get a better idea of what the Buddha meant by "dukkha" (dissatisfaction) if we keep in mind that he often contrasted it with "sukkha" (happiness). In the Dighajanu Sutta, the Buddha enumerates four sources of happiness in the present life available to lay people: constructive action, preventative action, virtuous friendship, and balanced lifestyle. For future lives, he lists four more sources of happiness: faith in the possibility of nibbana, virtue, generosity, and wisdom. That doesn't sound nihilistic, does it?
Another nuance is that Buddhism makes a distinction between what we might call the inevitable pain of life and the unnecessary suffering with often add into it. In the Sallatha Sutta, The Buddha used an analogy of two arrows. Life often hits us with the first arrow (the initial adversity -- the pain). But we often shoot ourselves with the second arrow (unnecessary mental anguish -- suffering): "When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts."
So, in essence, you weren't too far off when you asked: This is essentially what Buddhism is trying to teach us: how to relate to this life without causing ourselves unnecessary suffering. In other words, how to accept dukkha as an inevitable part of our life (one translation of "the four noble truths" I like is "the four ennobling realities") without shooting ourselves with the second arrow.
On last thing, the word often translated as "clinging" (tanha) is, in Classical Buddhism, often contrasted directly with the word often translated as "equanimity" (upekkha); upekkha means maintaining a balanced, nonjudgmental attitude in the face of life's ups and downs. It's the ability to take in life's rewards without becoming a megalomaniac or too grabby, and at the same time, to take life's blows and punches with a level-head. Read some biographies of people who have overcome great hardship, and you'll find this is a trait shared by all resilient people. Tanha is the opposite of this. It is also the ability to treat a king and a pauper (or, in modern times, a CEO and a homeless person) while seeing into the core of who they are. If you read the Suttas, you'll find the Buddha taught everyone who came to him for guidance, from powerful kings and princes to penniless laborers.
The teaching of anatta (not-self) is relevant here. The fact of the matter is, we need not "let go" of anything because we own nothing to begin with. Life is already in the process of prying it all from our cold, dead hands. Actually, we don't even own our hands. Our bodies are not our own, in the end, and neither are our experiences or possessions. All of life is like a breath: it comes, is, and passes away. So what does this mean for us and our habit of clinging to things out of the mistaken notion that we can own them? Ultimately, what we should contemplate is not that everything we cling to leads to suffering, but that all such things lead to nothing. That can sound nihilistic in its most basic definition, but it's actually quite liberating because we let go of so much unnecessary stuff -- including our misguided attempts to "own" happiness and "disown" suffering -- and begin to ask ourselves things like "What does love really mean, if I can't hold onto it?"
This is the reality we spend time sitting with in meditation. Life is passing us by. Are we awake for it? The Buddha, after all, means "the one who has woken up."
No, you don't get it.You have to read more
It's clear that a very depressed or grieving person needs empathy, friendship, and perhaps the help of a qualified counselor.
However, if we are healthy and able to cope again, then its a good time to experiment with new ideas, provided that's what we want.
There are many ways to find peace and happiness; each individual should find out what works for him or her. Buddhism is just one way. Even if you're drawn to the ideas, it takes time and patience to develop a deep understanding of it. Attachment can be removed through the cultivation of the Noble Eightfold Path.
Buddhism is quite complex in certain areas and it is not so cut and dry as you may think. You can practice it for a number of years and still not have an in depth and broad understanding of it. You can read and read and read until your eyes bleed, but the best way to find these answers is to travel down the path for yourself. You can use what people say on here or the teachings of the buddha as basics and take it from there, but from my experience the best way to understand is to listen to a teacher and sit in silence and listen to yourself.
A caring and decent buddhist would not simply say to a depressed person, 'oh attachment is the root of your suffering so just be happy.' Even though this is partly true, it is nowhere near enough for them to begin to understand. Secondly, that is not being compassionate and compassion is one of the main aspects to being buddhist. Every depressed person has a story to tell and you would need to exercise compassion and listen, be warm and caring and try to see a clear way of helping. You won't always be able to help but all you can do is try, tom
I just wanted to say that I think the meaning of life is love. That's the only reason I get out of bed in the morning. To be kind to myself, to be kind to others, to strive for love in each moment.
It seems simple and something that I've been told over and over my whole life, but for some reason it clicked not too long ago and makes sense to me now, and it's just good enough for me.
I see the point you are trying to make Fede, but I think this is a bad example, how can anyone hate junk food?!
The Noble Eightfold Path, for example.
My original goal for the study of Buddhism was to build a better life for myself. As I have studied, I have come to understand Buddhism as a tool box filled to the brim with tools that I could use to achieve that goal. Each tool has specific applcations and instructions for usage, but none of them can do the complete job by itself. Put another way, in the same way that there is no such thing as a single tool called a "home-builder" with an ergonomic design and a comfort-grip handle (swing it once and your home will be complete), there is no equivalent "Suffering-Ender" in the buddhist toolbox that can bring enlightnement in one easy swing.
My limited mind has distilled the following "tools" from this thread:
-Practice direct presence
-Practice compassion and love toward yourself and others
-Be patient
-Meditate, with guidance
-Learn, read, and seek with a focus on the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path.
-Accept that Dukkha exists and that we each choose how we experience it.
That is part of the toolkit that has been presented in this thread. It is enough to start building.
But wait...what about the why and how of building?
These are questions that I have struggled with for years, and the struggle has been fruitless. There is no universal ultimate answer to the question "Why", and seeking something that doesn't exist will always be an exercise in frustration and futility (In other words, a powerful source of dukkha). For me, the closest I have been able to come to an answer is to accept the reason I started studying buddhism in the first place.
Question: Why should I get out of bed in the morning"
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why should I read a buddhist forum?
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why should I use the tools in this thread?
Answer: To build a better life for myself.
Question: Why bother attempting to build a better life amidst all this dukkha?
Answer: Because it is what I wanted in the first place...to build a better life for myself.
Now is the time to accept that I came here seeking to build a better life. Struggling against that is the definition of dukkha (for me).
Finally, "How?" is just another distraction (more dukkha). Simply start using the tools as you understand them. When you are on your own in the early stages, order doesn't matter. If you don't feel that you can use them skillfully, practice them in their simplest forms.
Love somebody.
Focus on this breath.
Recall the 4 noble truths.
Focus on this breath.
Love yourself.
Take a look at the thought that is in your head at this moment.
Let it be without judging it.
Let it go.
Luckily, you have another breath to focus on now, so do that.
If you find yourself getting frustrated, forgive yourelf and focus on another breath.
If somebody posts a confusing/frustrating response to your online query, forgive them and focus on your next breath.
If you have the thought, "this is pointless, why am I wasting my time?", let it come and go without carrying you along.
Seek contact with people of like mind and practice with them.
Seek contact with people who have a better understanding than your own and practice with them.
If some of this works, keep doing it.
If none of this works, try something else.
Choose to feel joy.
i'll take more time to read tomorrow. skimming two pages of this thread was just enough to make me inspired, yet dizzy. i like this forum so far.
Awareness, any daily excercise that increases awareness, opening our minds to all potentialities in any circumstance. i sensed a question about learning a road to ending suffering. "I have learned the secret of being content in any and every circumstance." I haven't really, but am working on it. Equanimity.
The Fear of Death is overrated.
sorry for the jumbled post, but I didn't feel much like going to sleep without making a contribution to this topic.