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How strict are you with the precepts
zidangus
Veteran
Hi everyone, I was just wondering how strict people are concerning the precepts, and indeed how many precepts you observe.
I myself try to observe 10 precepts, as I think 10 is a more complete form for a Buddhist lifestyle then that given by the 5 precepts. Also I do not like to think of the precepts as just in their negative form ( which seems to be stated a lot in the literature I have read) but also try to ensure I make a concerted effort to observe their positive form also.
The precepts I try to observe both negative and positive are
Negative Form
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from killing living beings.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from taking the not-given.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from sexual misconduct.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from false speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from harsh speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from frivolous speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from slanderous speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from covetousness.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from hatred.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from false views
Positive form
With deeds of loving-kindness
I purify my body.
With open-handed generosity
I purify my body.
With stillness, simplicity, and contentment
I purify my body.
With truthful communication
I purify my speech.
With words kindly and gracious
I purify my speech.
With utterance helpful.
I purify my speech.
With utterance harmonious.
I purify my speech.
Abandoning covetousness for tranquillity
I purify my mind.
Changing hatred into compassion
I purify my mind.
Transforming ignorance into wisdom
I purify my mind.
Of course I do not obey them as much as I would hope to do, which is most likely the same for everyone on this forum, but I do my best to observe them and follow them.
Metta to all sentient beings
I myself try to observe 10 precepts, as I think 10 is a more complete form for a Buddhist lifestyle then that given by the 5 precepts. Also I do not like to think of the precepts as just in their negative form ( which seems to be stated a lot in the literature I have read) but also try to ensure I make a concerted effort to observe their positive form also.
The precepts I try to observe both negative and positive are
Negative Form
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from killing living beings.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from taking the not-given.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from sexual misconduct.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from false speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from harsh speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from frivolous speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from slanderous speech.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from covetousness.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from hatred.
I undertake the item of training which consists in
abstention from false views
Positive form
With deeds of loving-kindness
I purify my body.
With open-handed generosity
I purify my body.
With stillness, simplicity, and contentment
I purify my body.
With truthful communication
I purify my speech.
With words kindly and gracious
I purify my speech.
With utterance helpful.
I purify my speech.
With utterance harmonious.
I purify my speech.
Abandoning covetousness for tranquillity
I purify my mind.
Changing hatred into compassion
I purify my mind.
Transforming ignorance into wisdom
I purify my mind.
Of course I do not obey them as much as I would hope to do, which is most likely the same for everyone on this forum, but I do my best to observe them and follow them.
Metta to all sentient beings
0
Comments
Sometimes I go on live chats and that can be frivolous and sometimes with harsh speach though I am not the worst offender with the second I do get harsh sometimes and then I regret it. As far as frivolous I think it meets a need in me for social contact.
I also think I have some confused thinking or wrong views. I suffer from schizophrenia and then there is just mundane confused thinking which includes stress and anxiety.
I try to be kind and truthful and generous if possible. Probably the worst thing is the confusion during the anxiety and sometimes I drink to get a high to mix up the pot from that anxiety. Which is bad not because it is 'devil liquor' haha but because it is trying to escape from the anxiety rather than constructively dealing with it. But I do constructively deal with it in just sitting quietly with it at times. Feeling my body really helps, sort of mindfulness. Sitting meditation makes it intensify but then sometimes it sort of melts. But I have found that fixating on relieving the anxiety only makes me more anxious, but if I sort of slow down and feel things it gets better.
I don't know about other Buddhists but for me observing the precepts is the most fundamental way of going for refuge in the three jewels, as training yourself in them shows true faith and commitment to our lord Buddha and his teachings and also it can really dramatically change your way of life for the better.
Metta to all sentient beings
but in regards to the fifth, i am more liberal with it. basically, sometimes it becomes strikingly clear WHY the fifth precept exists and then i just think, "well, i have nobody but me to blame i guess..."
why not just say "my partner"?
I'm pretty good about four, but find myself occasionally uttering a lie in jest (e.g., I LOVE going in for a colonoscopy) or to protect someone's feelings. While the latter can be in line with the spirit of the fourth precept, it takes some self-examination to know whether one is sparing someone's feelings or making life easier for oneself.
The fifth precept has never given me much trouble. I've always hated the taste of alcohol, as well as the loss of faculties it brings. Long before I became a Buddhist, I drank very sparingly, usually only when "required" by a social situation.
I think its because I always tend to be a bit of a joker, trying to make people laugh and smile. Sometimes I end up saying things which when I reflect could be thought of as insulting, but I never intend them to be, again I think its because I try to hard sometimes to make people laugh and smile.
Metta to all sentient beings
Rarely do I venture into "heedlessness" but I do enjoy fermented drink.
I am far more strict about my ngakpa samaya vows.
Even before Buddhism I never seriously had problems with either stealing or sexual misconduct.
Since I started practicing Buddhism I try and refrain from false speech. I'm realizing more and more that false speech ultimately just leads to suffering and needlessly complicates things.
As far as intoxicants, I've never smoked anything. I used to drink 2 to 4 beers daily but gave that up when I started daily meditation. Ultimately when I started practicing Buddhism, I promised myself on the special occasions when I do drink, not to get drunk (2-3 beers max). Promise has been kept so far.
-Seeing as I am a vegan and don't believe in harming any kind of life.
-I don't steal and never take without asking. My belief is if I don't have the money for it then I don't need it, unless it is something of an emergency.
-I don't engage in any Sexual misconduct since I am in a serious relationship and wouldn't even if I wasn't.
-False speech is also a given because slander and lies are not a good thing.
The fifth one to a point- I might have one glass of wine, but I don't abuse drugs or alcohol. In fact I don't do any drugs at all.
lol. people aren't as dumb as you may think. i've played the pronoun game before, it ends up just silly and odd and makes everyone realize what i'm really getting at anyways. and besides, i never bring it up, i'm always asked bluntly, "do you have a boyfriend?" by men who actually want to date me, it's not just polite conversation.
the nature of my profession is that i am struggling to keep sex and sexuality out of it and be seen as a professional. i have been a massage therapist for years, but after moving, you always lose all of your clients, sooo at the moment, i am doing massage in poker clubs. before most of my work has been aimed at people with actual physical injuries, i've worked for several chiropractors, and now i am forced to struggle to make myself seem reputable. from years of waitressing, i have found that the least sticky answer to the above question is just, "yes." it makes guys see me as unavailable and it doesn't pique their sexual interest the way that "no, but i have a girlfriend." does.
it's not exactly my ideal position, but it's what i have for now and i do enjoy it to some degree. but in regards to my boss, i never actually work with her, but she is always giving me pointers and comments saying, "i hear everything..." because people tell her everything. i cannot afford to lose this job so i don't mind the little white lie that "my boyfriend" is actually "my girlfriend". it secures my job and keeps the guys off my back, mostly.
I've also had to stop drinking ANY alcohol as I just can't tolerate it so in theory I guess now I have no issues following the precepts. Does it automatically make me a better person? Absolutely not. Do I try and try again to be a better person? Absolutely.
In metta,
Raven
The precepts are, as has been said, a guide. The goal is not "to be a good Buddhist and keep the precepts." The goal is to really understand why we keep the precepts. And the best way to do that is to live with them.
It doesn't (see my post on sexual misconduct).
jk. I'm actually interested in this too. I think it's fine. It's absolutely not sexual misconduct, but I guess for some who are celibate--I don't know if it's considered okay or not.
Of course, like anything, if it becomes an addiction, it's just as bad as any other addiction, and must ultimately be let go of (probably by stopping all together.) I personally find the sexual response fascinating and do it when I feel like it. It's really interesting to take a mindful approach and watch yourself, your body and your mind.
I'm not sure but it's best to avoid it as masturbation distracts the mind.
That is why meditators(some) uphold the eight precepts and one of them is the reinforcement upon the precept of 'no sexual misconduct'.
The precept which states no sexual misconduct in the eight precepts extends to 'sexual activities'. Couples who uphold the eight precepts are not allowed to engage in sexual activities for the day they uphold the precepts. This enables the mind of meditators to be kept intact
Breaking of precepts might be punishable by law. For example, if you stole you'll be jailed. However for breaking of precepts such as lies, there are also consequences such as nobody will believe you, Alzimeh( Short-term memory), guilt and a 'monkey mind' .
Many people put emphasis on keeping the 5th precept of no intoxicants intact.
It is because intoxicants causes the person to be intoxicated and this takes away their reasoning, their restraint and their awareness. Breaking of the 5th precept will also cause the person to accrue bad karma for themselves and increase the chances of breaking the other four precepts( as a result of no restraint). Therefore the 5th precept must be kept exceptionally well, otherwise you'll risk violating the other four.
Obviously referring to spiritual aspirations. Morality leads to concentration, concentration leads to insight, insight leads to liberation from all ones bondages. Thats what the Buddha taught.
The precepts are our foundation.
If we want benefit from our practice we are kidding ourselves if we are not striving to maintain the precepts perfectly. End of story!!
Perhaps early on if you feel it's necessary to look at it in terms of "strictness" than you can, but proper understanding does not allow for strictness, we simply are, and the way that we are will certainly fall in line with the dharma if we are of proper understanding.
Well said, with proper understanding ones actions of body speech and mind automatically fall inline with the Dhamma. But lets not forget that true proper understanding is transcendental (quite apart from intellectual understanding) and the property of an Arahant. An Arahant has fulfilled the path to perfection. Strictness does not mean rigidness, without virtue proper transcendental understanding would not arise. The path is interdependent.
To me the only reason we act in a different way than that of one enlightened is ignorance. Enlightenment is here and now, all we have to do is realize it.
Everything starts in the mind and maintaining the precepts is restraining and purifying the grosser aspects of our mind, from there we move on to more subtle impurities, until we have purified these grosser aspects, it will not be possible for the more subtle realities to be fathomed. The whole path moves from the gross to the subtle and then beyond it all!
Thanks!:)
I agree with Viriya; the precepts are to be maintained conscientiously, to develop a discipline and strive toward realization and a higher morality, a better way of life. I also agree with Dakini, that they are not commandments, but that one needs to have sufficient justification for breaking one. Some extenuating circumstance, such as lying to protect someone from being killed. One doesn't have to take all the precepts; one should bite off only what one can chew. As one develops one's discipline, one can take more vows.
As I understand it -- and I may be wrong -- the five precepts are meant for renunciates. These are rules of personal conduct for monks and nuns, who are on the path to enlightenment, and they go along with not sleeping in a high bed, and so on. (This is sort-of like Christ saying, Ok, if you want to be perfect, sell everything you own, give the money to charity, and follow me.)
As I have read the literature, it seems the Buddha specifically said he does not teach anything other than the path to enlightenment and the end of suffering. My question, then, is whether the Buddha gave a moral code for the rest of us, who are not looking to renounce the world, but want to cultivate ourselves as well as possible within the framework of a worldly life?
Buddha bless,
Conrad.
ps - I've seen the precept against sex amended to, "I will refrain from sexual *misconduct*." But I'm not asking about later editorial decisions; I'm asking whether there's such a code that is credited to the Buddha himself.
I think you might be confusing the five precepts with the eight, ten and full monastic precepts (227 for bhikkhus and 311 for bhikkhunis).
The five precepts are the basic training rules all Buddhists are encouraged to observe to the best of their ability. They constitute the basic level of virtue the Buddha advises is necessary for the peace of mind conducive to a successful practice, especially in regard to meditation, and they're seen as gifts "that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & priests" (AN 8.39).
And just for reference, there's no evidence that the third precept for lay-followers is a later editorial decision; as far as we know, it comes straight from the Buddha (e.g., AN 4.99, DN 31, etc.)
Buddha bless,
Conrad.
Are there really 311????? Holy smokes! I've never come across any religion or world view that has as many lists as Buddhism. I think it is really funny - so many numbers!
As for me - I am feeling more and more affection for the Three Treasures, try to avoid the 5 hindrances, and work to live in the spirit of either 5 or 8 precepts (depending on the book I'm reading).
Interesting to see this new thread, as earlier this morning I decided that since I'm on the path anyway, I'd like to formulate a vow-taking ceremony in front of my sangha. I sit with an informal Soto group and our teacher (former long time monk with the SF Zen Centre) eschews anything to do with what he calls 'religion' - so we don't chant or anything. Just sit and walk and then have tea and talk. A couple of people in our group have taken vows with a Mountain Rain sangha in Vancouver, but I don't want to leave my island (Vancouver Island) so I'm going to ask them to show me how to make a rakasu (sp?) and ask if I can make my own vows in front of the group. I really like them and it makes more sense to do it with them than with strangers....................
You should read the Abhidharma and the Vinaya :crazy: there's so much to learn.
:dunce:
In metta,
Raven
1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life.
2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.
3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.
5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness. (drugs etc. too)