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Being more honest and straight foreward
I think a lot of problems and misunderstandings in society come from people hiding their opinions from each other. honestly, I'd rather people just tell me what they think, even if it might hurt my ego, than to just keep those opinions to our selves. Maybe people get too angry about certain opinions to allow for honesty though. Is there any practice in Buddhism to make you a more straight forward person with people? I'm not really the best at articulating how I feel in conversation either, but there's always room to develop such skills. I think if people were more honest with each other with opinions of all stripes, democracy and society would function better. I feel that people are too isolated, and that's why people continue to carry 1 dimensional opinions of other people, whether it be over religion, politics, lifestyle, etc, etc. I wanna do what I can to do my part in changing this. Like I think too many people see differing views as a threat, where really it should just be taken at face value. People should give each other the benefit of the doubt, because, whatever one's opinion might be, they're probably sincere and honest about it and probably thinks their view is the best for making the world better. I just want barriers and presumptions to stop beings so much of a hindrance to human solidarity.
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The lesson in particular that I took away from the book that relates to your situation is to always remember that everyone wants to be happy, and to avoid pain. People all do the things they do to either be happy, or to avoid pain, and not for any other reason. If people are hurtful or malicious, it is because they believe this behavior will somehow benefit them and make them happier, or that it will help alleviate pain they feel themselves. When I began to think this way, I began to pity or sympathize with those on an unhealthy path instead of being upset by their behavior. For me this is a daily struggle, especially while driving (I'm a naturally angry driver I guess), but I feel this has helped me deal with the types of thoughts you are having, and I hope it can help you as well.
Also keep in mind that not everyone can handle the truth, culture and people are what they are, and people keep their opinions to themselves out of a trained sense of what is right. In general, this is done with the best intentions. You cannot singlehandedly change the world, but you CAN lead by example by demonstrating kindness and compassion.
Right speech?
Something I was taught recently that I found quite profound was this: 'when disagreeing with someone, never attempt to win'.
Attempting to win means not engaging in topics if one doesn't feel confident they can win.
Attempting to win means feeling stupid if one doesn't win.
Attempting to win means the other person feels stupid if we do win.
Attempting to win turns a conversation into a competition.
Attempting to win means not actually listening to what the other person is saying.
The ego wants to win. It's what it does. Don't win, don't lose, just talk.
Easier said than done, but I think it very profound and I think it very compatible with right speech and moving past the ego. It would also lead to direct, honest, considerate speech
there are six people involve in the conversation
how?
three people in person 1:
Genuine person1, the person he wants to show to the outside world, the person that the person 2 sees
three people in person 2:
Genuine person, the person he wants to show to the outside world, the person that the person 1 sees
so we always can expect a problem
if we practice getting rid of four types of wrong speech (lie, bad words, back-bite, useless talks) we can develop into one genuine person and world might see the same genuine person
and one more thing,
Buddha says,
if it is not true do not say it
if it is true wait until the right moment to say it
Would you mind providing links to the relevant suttas when you quote the Buddha please, upekka ?
Many thanks.
Dazzle
hope some learned person would provide the links
What is speech for? Pleasure? Many people rely on it for pleasure, but don't! Use speech when it's necessary or beneficial.
I'm with you, MellowViper.
Sounds like a hella loose paraphrase of what the Buddha says in MN 58. Essentially, something's worth saying — even if it's disagreeable — as long as it's factual, beneficial and said at the proper time. So, ultimately, it's up to us to discern whether or not something's worth saying, and if so, when.
I think you're right about the problems you mention, but that's how things are, and I don't think the solution is fixing those problems. We have to go into our minds and change things there. So, instead of fixing the problem, we can just fix the problem that there is that problem. The problem can still be there but it won't be a problem anymore.
When engaging a person in conversation, regardless of the topic, the very concept of winning means we have already lost. There is no winning even when we are right. To view a verbal exchange as having a winner means there is a loser and nobody wants to be the loser. Don't try to make anyone the loser.
Sure, but this is very dangerous. We don't know the truth. We seek the certainty of knowing, but the reality is we never find it. We seek the safety and shelter of certain knowledge which lets us know we are right, but haven't you ever held a belief that you now reject? At one time you were certain of the rightness of your view, but now you are certain of the wrongness of that view? That's how views are, they are limited points of view. Even the teachings of the Buddha are subject to this. Even if the Buddha was 100% correct on everything this doesn't mean our understanding of the Buddha is 100% accurate. We can exchange views, but if we attempt to win with our view this only means we have an unhealthy attachment to our view.
Don't elevate 'Truth' to such a lofty pedestal please. We are very imperfect perceivers of what Truth really is. It's really easy to become convinced of what Truth is and be dead wrong. When we are rock solid convinced we have found Truth we can be assured we are mistaken and our thinking deluded.
What I mean by truth is by someone thinking the president is a Muslim and me providing evidence to the contrary that he isn't. I don't think truth is that subjective. I'm not talking about some sort of vague, ultimate truth of reality. I'm actually talking about more mundane things. Yah, we don't know the ultimate nature of the universe or what God is, but we can , through reductionism or the Socratic method, find out a lot of things that we wouldn't otherwise know.
I never said that I believed in the concept of winning or not winning either. Someone else brought it up and I was simply addressing it. I would be in full agreement that its an exercise in futility. I agreed with them that arguing to win is stupid and went on to explain that the intention should be to propagate truth. By this, I meant, ego should be left at the door, and the goal between two people conversing should be to come away with an improved perspective. Opinions don't have to be completely changed, but hopefully they'll have an improved, more advanced view of the other person and their position afterwards.
Yah, I've been wrong before, and that's exactly what it has to do with. I want to interact with other people and be straight forward so I can improve my perspective and improve other peoples' perspectives. Its a two way street. I know I don't know everything. I just want more peaceful interaction so we have a more functional democracy and society. A large chunk of the country (I'm from the US) thinks that Global warming shouldn't be any type of concern and that gays cause god to bring down His wrath in the form of hurricanes, natural disasters, and terrorist attacks. I don't think an overly passive approach is productive.
When I said I want to propagate truth, this isn't me stating that, I, Jonathan Keen, am the all mighty knower of everything in the universe and that I want to bestow my great data bank of wisdom on the populace. No, I want to generate a more accurate view by allowing myself to have my outlook changed through getting to know others and changing other peoples' perspectives through my input. Interaction is the only way to get a more accurate picture of the world. I don't even think a perfect model of reality is possible, but accurate view points can be acquired in certain aspects of everyday life. You can gain knowledge of other points of view to construct a mental tapestry of the whole. If we stay isolated in our little enclaves and only exchange our opinions with people who already share them, that's going to do nothing to advance society. Yah, maybe it would be better if people did have less opinions. I'm not arguing that, but people do have them. People think liberals are destroying the world, people think right wingers are destroying world, people think reptilian entities and masons are in alliance with the UN to wipe out 90% of the populace. Its how it is.
I wish people were just more open with these views so they could be vetted out. I wish people would actually talk to Muslims as opposed to assuming they're all terrorists. I wish people got to know gays as opposed to assuming they're all perverts. That's what I meant when I said that isolation and keeping such opinions to our selves does nothing to shatter these 1 dimensional views of the world. When people have a bunch of negative opinions about gays and only share those views with other people who share those same prejudices, they're never going to get any other perspective.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about this, but no, this isn't any type of ego trip for me. It actually has more to do with a mutual pursuit for finding a clearer picture of reality through my interactions with others.
Thanks for the comments though. I appreciate usernames's advice, and I'll check out that book, whiterabbit. I appreciate it all despite the misunderstandings.
No, there isn't. You, on the other hand, have the power to make yourself a more straightforward person.
It's interesting that when we become more open and honest, others do too. When we listen without judgement and evaluation, others do too.
I wish you well in this, as I understand from my own experience it is not easy, but well worth the effort.