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Suicidal Depression
How would a Buddhist handle this? How would they make themselves feel better?
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I'll take a shot at answering your question later because I've had the experience, but I will not mess with trying to answer it without talking about the extreme psychopathology of it.
First the Buddhist would begin by writing down the number to the suicide hotline and programming it on the speed dial of every phone.
Second, the Buddhist would call a mental health professional and make an appointment stressing that the reason for the appointment is depression with thoughts of suicide. They should be able to fit the person in after roughly 3 seconds. If the Buddhist doesn't have the money to afford an appointment, the Buddhist would get a referral to a low or no cost provider from the suicide hotline.
Finally, and only after the first and second practices are complete the Buddhist would rededicate themselves to the path that leads to liberation from suffering. Meditation would be done only under the guidance of a skilled instructor and only if the mental health professional was OK with it.
I myself have been severely suicidal, but that was mainly due to my alcoholism; which I've recovered from. They say suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Please take care of yourself.
This really sums it up actually, on the money with that one. I was suicidal due to extensive hypercondria and the delusion that I was dying from cancer. So I was drunk one night and thought why not, better than to rot and wither. I was in a right old state and was about to leave after writing 'the note' when a close friend of mine called my phone at the right moment, just before I was going to walk to this building I had in mind.
I think everyone has seen that famous image of the monk on fire, monks have gone and done it in the past
In my humble opinion, this is flippant and shallow. I have been there, and I have a 14-year-old son that I surely can't renounce. One thing that has occurred to me is that it would be a very bad example for him.
That's why I don't like to see s*** like this on these boards. Often the question itself is naive, and the answers become flippant and shallow.
Severe and clinical depression should be treated and evaluated by a doctor or specialist. The type of depression where one can still get out of bed, go to work/school can be helped with meditation and teachings of the dharma
They would voluntarily commit themselves to a psychiatric hospital.
I'm absolutely staggered that some members on here would be so ridiculously thoughtless and careless with their words and to reply in such an abysmally brainless and inconsiderate way.
I really thought input would be a lot more considered.
Words fail me.
For specifically Buddhist suggestions, you will probably find The Mindful Way through Depression helpful...
Thirded on the hotline and seconding Fivebells suggestion of The Mindful Way Through Depression.
There is a lot that might be found useful in that book.
But I understand that depression that severe can be debilitating, to the point where a person is so wrapped up in their own problems that the outside world and other people become meaningless. Perhaps with such a mental illness even the wisdom of the Buddha would be ineffective. I'd have to say going to the GP would be the wisest option.
I also told my psychiatrist (I already had one but you would need to get one otherwise) that I was having suicidal thoughts. Oh another time I didn't have a psychologist and I didn't trust my chiatrist. So I called a psychologist at random. She luckily was very concerned and caring in her voice message in reply to my request and I immediately felt safe with her. But you have to find a person you can work with. I recall another time at student health when it wasn't working I had delusions about who was helping me and I told him and the secretaries about my problem with him and it was handled in a professional manner I got to see a different person.
Once you have medication (psychiatrist) and talking (hotline or psychologist or counseler..... best you can afford). Then you can turn to buddhism.
I found refuge irregardless if you have formally taken refuge to be helpful. Just saying "Buddha please help me I am suffering so bad I need help". That can be helpful. I used to do walking meditation and I would talk to myself say "Buddha" "Buddha"
(note these are experiences and not the teachings of an enlightened teacher)
But this helped.
Structuring little activities that I could handle that broke up the THINKING and gave me something to do. Light a candle and smell it. Have hot chocolate or tea. Take a walk. Phone someone and ask them how they are doing. Paint a picture. Do 10 minutes of dishes. Read a paragraph of a dharma book.
Another thing that helped was to notice that the suicidal thoughts were just thoughts. A dream. And I can wake up from that dream and I don't have to obey the thoughts. That I am just with the thoughts of suicide but I can just let those thoughts be and not act on them.
Anything that helps you relax or feel more at ease. Although probably dangerous drugs don't fit this category of course due to the distress they produce 'coming down'.
Another thing is to have appreciation for our lives... look at pictures of people in Africa starving, of animals in the wild who have no respite from their constant fear of looking out for enemies, looking for food, being killed by predators, look at people with Aids, chronic sicknesses, without arms, without legs ... look at countries where there is always war where children have to become soldiers, where little girls are forced to be prostitutes and their life is truly without hope... don't you think we have something to appreciate in our life?
Some videos to share...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_24_qTNac&feature=related (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bL3GR4iAW0&feature=related (part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV8-ggkBNeE
Depressed people should also do more purification practices like 35 Buddhas, prostrations and Vajrasattva. My own experience is that it helps.
I can say unequivocally that you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about. One has to be minimally functional to be able to do these things. They are nice to do once one has recovered, but not to be confused with proper treatment. Again, think diabetes or broken leg.
A monastery that's doing proper screening of candidates would not allow a person in the midst of a severe depressive episode to stay. Or it would be discovered during the novice period.
Again, think diabetes or broken leg.
I would suggest the person find a suicide hotline and write the number down.
I cannot give you an extensive answer as I am not a very intelligent person and this is a very touchy subject.
1. I know the feelings of a suicidal person. And I hated when a teacher or peer would say it was the "easy way out" or cowardly. Because at the time, it wasn't the easy way out, it was the hardest thing I struggled with in my entire shot life, and to a suicidal person, suicide isn't the easy way, it's the only way. no matter how good life is objectively, in the individuals head, life will not get better, and death seems like the only escape to living years and years of misery. So I wont say "man up" or "it's just a phase" like my parents liked to believe. But I can think of a few things that may help.
1. Read The Art of Happiness by H.H. the Dalai Lama. I cannot point out all the important and logica points he makes towards being happy by choice. But one of the most significant I remember was when he said something along the lines of 'Even if you cannot just be happy, think of it this way. From a objective perspective, life is neither good, nor bad, It just is, neutral. So how we perceive it entirely makes up the world around us. So, happiness a choice, sadness is a choice, and knowing this, if it's all about perception, why not try choosing to be happy for a change.' This stuck with me because I always felt other happy people were only happy because they deceive themselves into being happy and ignore the terror that is life, but this made me realize that I was doing the same. If they ignore the bad, then I was guilty of ignoring the good in equal measure. I don't know if it will help you, but there is a bit of protection in this idea.
2. I also find myself thinking a lot about ow I'd talk to someone else who was suicidal in the same way as I was. And I constantly find myself feeling stupid for feeling like dying before because I realized that if there was a heaven or hell, I'd be damned for it, and if not then I would just cease to exist. Either way, I could no longer improve in any way, shape, or form, if I died. I couldn't help others either.
3. Lastly, think about death itself. People who are suicidal tend to glorify the idea of death, imagining their funerals, and people crying and mourning for them (then again, it may have just been me because I was always lonely). But if your not a believer in god, then there is none of that for you. You cease to be as soon as it's over. You don't even fade to black like in the movies. It'd be like before you were born. There is no you anymore. And, people will move on, they won't mourn or remember you forever. This seems counter productive, but thinking about it, it makes death far less appealing then when your in that sort of romanticized mindset of wanting to die.
That's all I can say from a personal perspective. But if you want to talk about it, I'm willing to listen, and there's nothing you can say that would make me think less of you, because I've seen the worst in myself, and have no right to judge. PM me if you feel you need to talk.
EDIT: sorry if there are missing "L"s. My key sticks and sometimes they just don't show up...
This part helped me. I myself just spent a week in the hospital.
Thanks.
Once he or she is mentally able to practice meditation he will start the path.
Patient endurance, meditation, is key to going through the 'raging storm' that is the self.
A simple practice everyday for 15-20 minutes, combined with practical mindfulness in day-to-day activities is a proper way to realize and experience the dharma.
Through this one will see the impermanent nature of phenomena, and slowly will let go of suffering.
In meditation one trains himself to face his fears and insecurities. Once he sees they are inherently illusory the precepts will form by themselves, the path will form before him.
However, once again my friend please seek the necessary help. Please help yourself in any way possible as this is the most skillful means of progression in the path. We all need help sometimes, no one should ever be shy to seek it.
May you be at ease, always.
Oh, here is a cool video of the Thai Forest Monk tradition with Ajahn Chah - You may find this to be relaxing. I listen to a dharma talk before I sleep every night, or do a bit of meditation. It helps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exb-9vO1FF8
To anyone who reads my contributions to this thread, read at your own risk, and consider that i have never felt like killing myself.
But perhaps if a situation doesn't apply to you, and your input has little relevance, I would question why you therefore feel the need to make any comment at all.
Compassion isn't about how you'd think or feel. It's about understanding how the other person is feeling.
But your input is entirely irrelevant to someone on the brink of despair.
Right speech also entails knowing when it's simply best to keep your yap shut.
She said.
Remember that all this stems from Delusion. Gather all blame into one, It is a waste of time following these thoughts so it is good to develop a strong motivation to destroy them.
As suggested the suicide hotline is also helpful.
Depression is a medical issue and requires medical help, and if the situation is urgent, then a hotline or some other urgent help should be sought out immediately.
Buddhism does have techniques to help find more happiness in life, and those certainly can be great secondary approaches, but first seek professional help for your illness. We all get sick in different ways. It's not your fault or anything to be embarrassed about. But you are valuable, probably more than you know, and so if you do nothing else good for yourself, right now get some help........please.
I think you make a valid point, if you have nothing to lose, why not give the monastic life a go?
I remember the story of a woman who was disenchanted with the household life so she wanted to become a nun. She couldn't meditate, she was having a lot of trouble living as a nun and she didn't want to go back to the household life so she decided all that was left was to kill herself. As the noose was around her neck, just before she attempted to kill herself she became enlightened.
Word.
This is so wrong on so manylevels that it is difficult to know where to begin. First of all, just on an ordinary level, suicide never affects just the person who commits it. It affects everyone they know negatively. Nobody lives in a vacuum. And from a Buddhist point of view, it is one of the very worst things you can do. It isn't a solution to anything and certainly not permanent. It would only be the cause for much, much worse suffering than one was experiencing. I agree with the others, that if you can't say something helpful, then please shut up and say nothing.
Palzang
Palzang
Meanwhile, get help to root out the cause. Whether it is something that possibly needs meds.
Philosophy or Religion or what have you can help but determine what it is first, if there is anything else (medically) going on inside you.
Also, it would help to have a support group of friends, whether it is online or in rl.
Having an online forum where you can air your concerns among others who are also in the same kind of struggle is helpful. The compassion is strong and it means alot coming from someone 'there', same thoughts and feelings that can talk you through them without judging you.
They know the spot you are in so they aren't scared to climb down into the dark to find you and they know exactly how to walk you through, feeling the walls to come back to the light.
I've seen many people recover a great deal with the help and understanding of friends. It takes reaching out first.
Also, do not impact it worse by thinking that having a suicidal thought makes you different from anyone else or feel ashamed for having one.
Suicidal thoughts come about when the pain a person feels has exceeded their coping methods.
This is why two heads are better than one when it comes to solving a problem.
Never feel you are alone. We're all here in the human condition, suffering, feeling our way around it and coming up with coping methods.
Below is a popular link online regarding suicide especially if you are 'in the moment' right now:
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
Hope it is helpful.
I believe it is meant differently from how I think it may be recieved here because the semantics may have different meanings('permanent'(?))
In it's usual context, it is said while the person is suffering in the thralls of a problem, as the person may not be able to stand back and realise that it is a temporary problem and the 'solution' they are seeking in suicide is permanent(meaning: permanently removing them from the present life) and that this method of solution is not befitting for a temporary state. It is supposed to help the person pass through the feelings during the moment.
As in: "this is a permanent solution. There is no coming back from it. You cannot change your mind then like you can right now"
This is why it's best to wait a day or two to find out if it's temporary and why waiting it out, talking it out rather than act on it is a better way to cope with it.
Didnt mean the insinuation of becoming a monk while u are in a depression crisis.Very sorry about that. Also i wont argue about proffesional threatment because im not a proffesional, and right medication can do a lot.
But i think buddhist practices are almost effortless. I mean i know about mayor depression,i know people who suffer extreme physical pain by the only fact of getting up of bed, people who commited suicide, even in they i have seen the energy to meditate/practice or read about buddhism in a daily way. Thats why i say its almost effortless...and thats why theoretically speaking a person can be cure by the practice.
Anyone sent PM's and received a reply?
My input is entirely irrelevant? I was pointing out an option that could be salvation! I don't see how that is irrelevant.
The situation doesn't apply to me? Did this person want advice on how to solve the problem of suicidalness, from people who have not solved the problem of suicidalness?? I do my best to progress on my Buddhist path, so I think I am qualified to give my input.
And this is a FORUM. When someone asks a question, it's because they want INPUT, from more than one person. I gave the input I thought was right. I have noticed that my opinions tend to be unusual, but that is good for the same reason that biodiversity is good.
Compassion can be offering a point of view that could be helpful that the person had not considered.
I do my best to be a Moderator on this forum, and don't take Buddhism into consideration, always.
And your progress isn't always about how you are doing, but how others are doing in response to what you're doing. And if the response is poor, then perhaps, your progress is not as good as you might hope.....?
This is a Moderated forum. Expect feedback.
Your opinions may tend to be unusual, but that doesn't mean they're good or make them better than usual ones.....
Currently, concerning your input, you're the only one who thinks so.
No they haven't.
OP's last visit was at the time of the first post in this thread.
Igoogle has a widget for that...
I do not know when yesterday was...????
They didn't cover that in the Heart Sutra, I guess.
I'm here, I've just been at work too much to really check the forum. I appreciate the replies, and when I have more time I will post again.
Thank you, all of you.
If it is you that you are talking about, please remember that everything we do or don't do affects other beings. Thank yourself for at least approaching others about this. Be nice to yourself.
There are plenty of rational and good willed people who do not identify themselves as Buddhist, and coming from experience with depression and knowing close people who have dealt with suicidal depression, I would encourage this person to talk to a counselor, or at least a friend or someone they know. I understand how alone it can feel. Just remember you aren't alone.
I hope you are doing at least a little better today, and please, let us know how you are, as time permits of course.
Good to hear from you, intothedreaming.
Deformed, you make some really good points. People just aren't nice to themselves sometimes, and they need to be.
Intothedreaming, it is good that you are reaching out. Please keep it up. When I was depressed I was hiding from the world. That didn't help at all, it made things worse. Things only got better when I reached out to my friends.
I agree with most everyone here, professional help is good if you can get it.
Best wishes to you.