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White Light and Astral Projection
White Light and Astral Planes.
Any one experience either of these two during meditation practice?
What are your thoughts?
Any one experience either of these two during meditation practice?
What are your thoughts?
0
Comments
Shamanism and Buddhism are different things.
Anyway, there are many lucid dreaming, OBE and astral projection techniques centered around meditation. Here's one example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E97fKPJm0U4
If you don't want to watch the whole thing, he basically repeats a mantra to keep his mind aware of when he falls asleep. Another technique is concentrating on a candle flame. If you concentrate on something really well while falling asleep, chances are you will have a lucid dream.
Lose special. Then you can find special. Because it is like a bad penny that keeps turning up.
Either that or I'm a superhero... one of the two.
This has pros and cons of course. For example, you can meditate in any environment you wish. However, it is still a dream... and you will never have complete and utter control over them. If you lose focus you will fall back into the random happenings of your usual dreams. and it is surprisingly hard to both meditate and maintain control over your dream at the same time.
A lot of it is just extreme mental conditioning. And I know we've been getting off topic a bit, so maybe any more discussion could be through pm?
And I could say relevance isn't relevant.
it is like a bad penny that keeps turning up? (I do not understand the context)
How do these two statements work together?
Sorry. I do not understand. Sorry, Please explain?
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism04.html
Has anyone experienced this?
I had various different experiences not long after I first started practicing. However one shouldn't get sidetracked with 'experiences', one should just gently return to the practice and the breath. (or whatever)
.
Recommend a book to read... it's available as a free ebook online.. it's the story of a Female Arhant named Mae Chee Kaew.
http://www.forestdhammabooks.com/
Mae Chee Kaew - Her Journey to Spiritual Awakening & enlightenment
This nun was previously very entranced with travelling to all kinds of realms through her meditation and all kinds of special phenomenon and trapped in this for many years, making no progress in her practice. Later, she was led out of it by a wise teacher. She was also partially woken to the futility of her 'special-effects' practice when she witnessed another teacher of hers, an Ajahn/ master-monk who was adept at such 'special-effects' practice, disrobed with a nun and married.
If you walk down such path of 'special-effects', then your three mental poisons forever remain unaddressed. You waste alot of time and possibily your whole life. If you want to astral travel, wait till you have died, as a bardo being or homeless spirit, you can see all kinds of light and astral travel as you wish.
Quite right, Richard.
"The Fourth Noble Truth: The Noble Truth of the Path Leading to the Cessation of dukkha", edited by John T. Bullitt. Access to Insight, May 26, 2010, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/index.html
I think it depends on why you are cultivating this ability. If you are cultivating it to have fun flying around like superman and doing other "fun stuff" then I would say it's irrelevant. But if you are cultivating it to practice Dharma, then It can be quite relevant I think. The dream state can be used just as well as the waking state to practice dharma. I think that if one is cultivating this ability to the exclusion of dharma practice in waking life, then it could obviousily be a hindrance, but if it is seen simply as an additional practice to utilize the 8 hrs of unconsciousness that we have every night, it can be beneficial.
It is one of the main Bardo's between attached life, and non-attached Nirvana.
It is written about in the Bardo Thodol, Tibetan Book of the Dead, as well as other great Buddhist works.
No need for an apology from those who dismissed my questioning as nonsense.
Please read. Thanks.
The white light may or may not be a sign of Samadhi. There is nothing significant about how this sign appears, for some people it appears as a light, others is appears as a sound or as a feeling. However, it is none of these, it is a perception, not a feeling, not a light, not a sound. The brightness of the light and the stability (i.e. it doesn't flicker or flash on and off) is an indication of how bright and stable the mind is becoming. Since Samma-Samadhi (Right-Stillness) is part of the Noble Eightfold Path, I'd say it is relevant.
Astral projection, on the other hand, I'd say is irrelevant. It doesn't seem like the Buddha ever said in the Suttas that astral projection needs to be mastered in order to Awaken.
Sorry, I should have read the post more carefully, all I saw was "astral projection" and I went into dismissal mode.
You are right.
Actually the catch-22 is that if you want the white lights in your meditation they won't appear. If you just let go, then they appear. Letting go leads to peaceful meditation, and there are different levels of peace/stillness. The white light usually only appears when you have let go of the five-sense bases (sight, sound, smell, taste, touch) and you are left with only a mental object.
I do believe that the white light is important, although I would say that unless you have the right conditions / circumstances, this state willl be hard to sustain.
I have experienced this state before. Although, I was not able to sustain this state due to my entanglement in this life. One must be able to sustain complete relaxed mind to sustain this. And unless you have the right circumstances such as being born in a monastery, this will be hard.
In theory, (tibetan book of the dead)
I would say being able to sustain this state is important, as it will allow unflinching control over the distractions, when venturing between incarnation bardo's.
I believe the briliant white light state is possibly the door way to other bardos which can be accessed via astral projection (spiralling clockwise).
I have experienenced a partial astral projection from this white light state where I spirilled out of my body, clockwise (i think, can't completely remember if clockwise or counter clockwise as so long a go). at which point I got afraid, as I did not know what was going on (haven not been formally trained) and I became afraid. So I bounced back into my body.
This was a number of years a go, and unfortuantely my life got more complicated since that point and more stressful.
However, if I can create the circumstances, I would like to continue again down that route to attain unflinching control over my being.
It probably isnt relevant in the case of Zayl, since he doesnt have a teacher and therefore couldnt have possibly gone through the preliminaries and teachings on how to make things like this relevant, but your blanket statement about irrelevance is simply inaccurate.
Since this is a Buddhist forum all Buddhsit interpretations and methods are relevant, not just your opinions on what is and isnt.
Buddhism has a long tradition of utilizing the dream state for practice.
However, I would recommend that people keep an open mind to the posibilities as there may be truths that we as individuals have not experienced yet during our lifetime which are truths nontheless.
Example: Reincarnation > possibility.
Transmigratable Karma: Possible.
I may not believe blindly.
However
I do not dismiss blindly either.
As surely to do so is the fruit of ignorance.
It is better to use the dream state for practice. You should just make sure you have the proper instructions and foundations for doing so.
From an overall Buddhist perspective Richards statements about it being irrelevant are simply untrue.
It may be irrelevant to certain traditions or individual practitioners but it is not irrelevant to Buddhist practice as a whole.
Perhaps you Shenpen, coming from a Vajrayana perspective, have directly received different teachings? If so state it. I will respect that.
I have practiced lucid dreaming and astral travel. This is the teaching of my Sanghas in both the Theravadin and Zen traditions that I have received for over twenty years.... The pursuit of this practice is not relevant to Buddhist aims. It is not bad, just not relevant. I will go on a limb and speak for my Sangha on this issue. If you find yourself awake in the dream state, be awake, but fascination with astral travel and phychic realms is not encouraged.
Hello robot. Thankyou for the kind words. I just want make clear something. After practicing for some time, there are insights and more peace in your life, but the uprooting of greed, hatred, and delusion is a long haul. After practicing for 20 years I can still act like a schmuck sometimes, and still get swept up in thinking. Sangha participation is grounding and informs much of life. The view I'm expressing is from a Theravadin and Zen Sangha perspective. It may very well be another matter in Vajrayana (Tibetan) practice.
I think I was thinking how hard we long for special. but if we let go of it sometimes we find it again. But the touch has to be light ie non-grasping. Sometimes our words just depress us more or have a bed of anxiety around them. Sometimes our words feel great and are special. Words or experiences.
So I think there is always this capacity to try to force things which we notice. And then just let go into space.
The bad penny keeps turning up means the habit to make things special keeps coming up again and again. Which means habit to force.
It also means that that happy alive feeling of specialness always comes back again and again. Two things. One is awakening and one is grasping. They keep coming back.
I thought awakening was about not coming back?
It's just a notion, but worth chewing on.
Well thats besides my point which is the habit to have a special experience. Additionally that would not be the Mahayana.
The dream yoga teachings in the sarma tradition that I have received are associated with the Chakrasamvara tantra and its inner Vajrayogini cycle. Its mostly associated with yidam practice, both from the kye rim and dzog rim perspective.
From the Nyingma tradition the teachings on dream yoga that I have received are associated with Dzogchen and in particular the Yeshe Lama of Jigme Lingpa.
In order for these practices to be relevant requires a lot of preliminary practice etc. so you would be absolutely correct is saying that in most cases dream practices are irrelevant, but its just not quite accurate to make a blanket statement about it.
Sorry for being a bit of a stickler but I think its important to make sure we represent the full spectrum of teachings and traditions.
Hi Robot,
It is a product of meditation practice and in some cases actually can become a meditation practice.
The key is the recognition of the illusory nature of our perceived self and of phenomena.
This is really what the practice is useful for and its also a preparation for the overcoming the confused state of consciousness during the dying process.