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Anxiety & Meditation
So I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Social Anxiety Disorder this summer, and ADHD (that one dunt bother me so much)
Anxiety is hell, well.. Buddhism says that all life is suffering, but anxiety dusnt make it any better haha.
Thankfully I don't have it way to severe, I go out all the time, I just have trouble with confrontations and meeting new people.
To explain:
Basically, Anxiety = Irrational Fears
A normal thought for someone with Social Anxiety wud be "That person is looking at me, they must not like me" or "If I try to talk to that person I wont have anything to say so I shouldnt."
I know a lot about the disorder and I know the thoughts aren't true and that its a cause of irrational fears and low self esteem.
So all thats left for me is to change my thought pattern, and I chose meditation bcuz I was told it can alleviate anxiety, and because I really like Buddhism, I wouldn't call myself a 'Buddhist' but I beileive that it tells truth straight up and giving up desire is the true way to happiness.
I've done therapy and endless research, and I probably know way too much about it xD . And I've tried meditating too. But the anxiety still won't go away.
Do I just need patience with my meditation?
or is there a certain kind of meditation directed toward anxiety?
A fear I have is that if i let go of desire, i will be letting go of social skills and then I will end up happy, but maybe not successfull. I value my purpose as much as my happiness.
Anxiety is hell, well.. Buddhism says that all life is suffering, but anxiety dusnt make it any better haha.
Thankfully I don't have it way to severe, I go out all the time, I just have trouble with confrontations and meeting new people.
To explain:
Basically, Anxiety = Irrational Fears
A normal thought for someone with Social Anxiety wud be "That person is looking at me, they must not like me" or "If I try to talk to that person I wont have anything to say so I shouldnt."
I know a lot about the disorder and I know the thoughts aren't true and that its a cause of irrational fears and low self esteem.
So all thats left for me is to change my thought pattern, and I chose meditation bcuz I was told it can alleviate anxiety, and because I really like Buddhism, I wouldn't call myself a 'Buddhist' but I beileive that it tells truth straight up and giving up desire is the true way to happiness.
I've done therapy and endless research, and I probably know way too much about it xD . And I've tried meditating too. But the anxiety still won't go away.
Do I just need patience with my meditation?
or is there a certain kind of meditation directed toward anxiety?
A fear I have is that if i let go of desire, i will be letting go of social skills and then I will end up happy, but maybe not successfull. I value my purpose as much as my happiness.
0
Comments
You are meditating with the goal of reducing anxiety. You meditate, anxiety doesn't go away immediately and this results in your experiencing what? Anxiety
Meditate with the goal of observing your breath. don't be concerned at all when your attention wanders to something else, just bring attention back to the breath when you notice it has wandered. In fact, every time you notice your attention has wandered from the breath physically smile and then bring attention back to the breath. Smile because the wandering attention is normal and noticing that it has wandered IS mindfulness. You are cultivating mindfulness which will, in time eliminate the causes of anxiety. So, smile every time you notice your attention has wandered and then bring attention back to the breath.
Please do not meditate expecting anxiety to fade away or this will strengthen anxiety. Meditate expecting to observe the breath, have the attention wander and then go back to observing the breath. That's it.
Your fear is understandable, but groundless. Letting go of desire is not equal to apathy or losing social skills. You don't need to let go of anything right now in a deliberate way. Just observe the breath, notice when you are not observing the breath, smile and observe the breath again. The rest will fall into place with no deliberate effort exerted on your part. It's kinda like magic. You just trust this process in a provisional way. Before very long you see the fruit developing as a result and then your trust is no longer provisional and you are on the path that leads to the end of dukkha.
Usually I have a problem with faith and trust, but the beautiful thing about Buddhist practice is its trusting yourself, instead of a figurehead or doctrine.
P.S. I can tell that its working, bcuz I couldnt sleep from my anxiety, and so I tried the follow the breath meditation, and I had absolutely no trouble sleeping.
I'm a generally anxious person and I keep it in check most of the time. Meditation does help.
Cheers, WK
I only had minor anxiety so I will have to wait what happens when I take it during major anxiety.
Be careful with the Klonopin. Heed the warnings on the bottle. It is a benzodiazepine drug, and thus can be addictive. It's more a psychological addiction, but it's there none the less. If it doesn't work for you, tell your doctor and try something else. Every human body is different, and what works for one doesn't work for all necessarily. Don't just keep upping the dose though. It's dangerous. Voice of experience here - I take it.
I decided to remove my advice because i've gotten in trouble by giving it before.
But I think you're better off doing it without any drugs at all. Have faith that there is indeed a (great) solution to all your problems, it just takes dedication.
I used to think "I have social anxiety." Now my viewpoints have changed so much that I have forgotten that whole stage of my life, I only remember it when someone mentions that term on this forum! I was really faaaaaar more ignorant than I am now.
Good luck. I tell you, this "buddhism" stuff is your solution, it only depends on whether you want to dedicate yourself to it or not.
Check these out, I like these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2UoTFF3uJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzgeh6c4ihE&feature=related
I have taken klonopin before and it didn't become habit forming. I went off it when it stopped working as well. I expect I'll get similar results this time around. I am also taking lamictal for profalaxis of anxiety.
Both of these do not eliminate anxiety they just take the edge off. Allows you to do more normal life. And relieves suffering.
Yes there is an abuse potential. There is also a risk that you get a rash inside your internal organs for lamictal. If you are suffering enough you have to take the risk.
I also take risperdal. When I am off risperdal 2 days I hear voices and I have delusions about words relating to the shapes of letters and so forth. Secret messages. Feelings that people are persecuting me or reading my mind.
I find the people who say no one should take drugs to be like christian evangelists. I don't care if you believe that but don't tell me what to do with my body please.
As nanadhaja says doctors who are up to date with current research can help you make a decision on whether to take a drug.
But I don't really know anything about most drugs. I only know about a few drugs. If the OP would like to hear my recommendation on how to get help from chemicals, you may message me.
If a med is not working or it is making things worse you stop it.
Its like trying a food. Maybe you don't like it but you never know it could be good?
Usually people trying meds are suffering quite a bit. My lama says that meds could be the result of the prayers of buddhas and bodhisattvas.
But really, I think you can't argue that the path is the ultimate fix. I agree that some drugs might help accelerate your progress a little, but after a certain point on the path, i think that there ain't no drugs that could help you no more. I think it is a very important thing to aspire to not rely on any drug. It is one of the 5 precepts for a reason, after all!
Craving is a different story. Work can be a craving. Washing your hands can be a craving.
Marijuana is cheap and widely available. It is legal as medicine in some states, and this november might be legal in general in california. If you ever plan on experimenting it with it, i could message you what I think about it.
I gave up pot because for me it led to panic attacks that were immobilizing.
The negative reaction to pot is irrational in some circles, but in others it's quite rational.
What is puzzling to me, Questionful, is your rather dogmatic stance that prescription medications are bad and 'the path' alleviates the need for them but yet if it were cheap and legal you would use marijuana. Do you not see how deeply and profoundly insane your reaction is? Mind altering drugs concocted by humans and tested in a lab are bad, but mind altering drugs from an unmodified plant are good? I mean really, what are you saying?
Do you even know?
Hi Jeffrey, Hope my comment was not received as me telling you what to do ... pleased if you have found a doctor who you can relate to and are talking openly with about your experiences and about the medications prescribed - this has been very helpful for me as has been anti-depressant medication at different times, for the reasons you describe, at times well prescribed medication can be an important part of recovery.
I turned down chemicals and meds because I know they do not actually solve the problem but merely cover it up causing other problems to arise. I hope you manage to relieve yourself of this burden because it does suck monkey balls, keep sitting and I think the idea is to not strive for such a thing, but to just let go
I did not say that. Marijuana IS cheap and widely available where I live. I was a stoner for one year. I have renounced drugs for the rest of my life. You have misunderstood me, accused me, and slandered me. I saw in another thread that you were calling people stupid. username 5, CONTROL YOURSELF. You should be ashamed of yourself, and reflect on your mistakes so that you may act more skilfully in the future.
I believe that most drugs have negative effects, including marijuana, and that while in some cases the pros will outweigh the cons, in all cases this will stop being the case after use of the drug for some time, and continuing to use the drug would no longer be worth it. In the case of marijuana, smoking for a few weeks will have the positive effect of opening the mind, changing views, realizing certain important things like how humans evolved to behave like sheep in society, and that we have to place no head above our own like Buddha said, etc. However, continuing use of the drug for more than a few weeks out of attachment will not continue to have the same positive effects and will have many negative effects.
I hope that cleared up my views for you. Control yourself dude.
I am for the legalization of marijuana. It is not a perfect drug (which are?), but it is a saner drug than the ones that are available. Having said that, I'm not sure that I would want to rely on it to get me into a certain meditative state. In moderation there is some benefit for me, but generally my pattern (having quit cigarettes again 6 months ago) is to become too attached. Right now, I need to learn more about discipline.
Kate
Another thing that helped with my anxiety was joining in a martial arts club. This helped me step out of my comfort zone and enabled me to find more confidence and self assurance. Of course the martial arts club should be assessed carefully making sure that they are not merely vehicles for the ego of the teacher, yet this can be found fairly easily by a bit of research. Also we are products of our conditioning if you consistently read books that help assert a positive self image then this will eventually reflect on your inner belief.
Cheers, WK
It is great if an individual can deal with their difficulties without any medication, but each individual has to use their judgement and take qualified advice regarding their own use of prescribed drugs.
I take my medication as prescribed following many difficult years, lots of research and finding a practitioner that I trust. Stopping, changing doses and trying to 'white knuckle' through severe anxiety and/or depression can be dangerous and life threatening.
Metta
Are you really the rapper Immortal Technique? I see that you've sought therapy, which I applaud, however, have you actually obtained a professionals opinion, and received a true diagnosis?
"Control yourself..." I may have to steal that one
Kate, I applaud you for knowing yourself. I too have an addictive personality. It actually runs in my family, on both sides. I apologize if I incorrectly categorized you as having an addictive personality, I meant no harm.
And meditationman, you are probably right that I have an addictive personality. I have often been grateful that I have only been physically addicted to cigarettes because if it had been alcohol or heroin, I don't think I would have been strong enough to survive it. But really I think we all struggle with addictions of one sort or another, what Pema Chodron calls "the hook". Anxiety is another hook. I'm trying to sit with it and see it for what it is. I'm trying not to bite the hook and start imagining all kinds of terrible (and unlikely...) outcomes to whatever problem I'm caught up thinking about. The key ingredient is practice which leads to more and more self awareness.
I wanted to be clear that I am in no way saying that Buddhist practice can take the place of medications if you need them. I have been taking medications for schizophrenia for over 8 years now and I know that I need them along with some part time therapy. I just worry about some of the stronger anxiety drugs because they are definitely addictive and are generally prescribed for short term use. I just don't want to go there, but if I were having severe panic attacks, I might feel differently. For right now my anxiety hurts me, but I look at it as a call to practice.
Kate
Going without drugs might hurt, but if the only way to solve the problem is to go through the pain, then that's just our karma and we're better off doing it asap.
But this view might not apply to your situation. I hope you find the best solution.
I don't question my need for the anti-psychotic medications and robot is right psychotic breaks are much harder and more damaging than staying on the meds. I tend to see the drugs as re-establishing a biochemical balance that I'm genetically prone not to have. Initially it was hard to find the right combination of medications, but for the most part I've been lucky in that I have. But, really, nothing in this life is a sure thing and we all take risks.
Relating mental illness to karma is a tricky thing. If I became mentally ill due to past negative karma, I'd have to say that in the three years that I didn't take the drugs, I paid my dues. Then again, in Tibetan Buddhism, negative circumstances are seen as just a greater challenge to wake up. I forget what the lojong slogan is...something like: if you encounter evil along the way, bring it to the path of the bodhi. That's what I've been trying to do in a small way.
I still have the voices with me, though they are mostly quiet. They used to call me evil, but after I applied compassion towards them, they began to treat me with kindness. Compassion is a powerful tool. I recommend it highly to any one who struggles with voices that are negative.
Kate
Like I said, I really don't know what I'm talking about. I just want to offer my thoughts in case they might be helpful.
When you go insane, restraint, discernment and patience and many other reasonable qualities get lost in the shuffle. Psychotic is a lot different than being neurotic.
Right now, I have health care and can pay for my medications...just barely, but if we don't get universal healthcare in the future I might wind up going off my medications. Maybe I'll be all right without them. Some people seem to grow out of psychosis as they get older. Or maybe I'll be wiser. I don't know. I'd just like to have the freedom to choose. And meditationman, if there were a natural, herbal medicine that could treat psychosis, I'd try it right away. I'm just not aware of any that do.
Thanks for responding to my post. I tend to be very open about my diagnosis, but some people get uncomfortable with that. It's always a pleasure when people show interest, even if we disagree.
Kate : )
The Buddha said we should not use mind-altering substances. THAT statement I really disagree with. I think that is the OPPOSITE of the truth. I think that is when meditation is needed most. I used to be, to a degree, depressed and anxious. In other words, I was the subject of Dukkha. So I applied the fourth noble truth. I still am the subject of Dukkha, but much less. In case my opinion would be helpful. This is a forum, it is for oar-dipping. Besides, as far as I know, "mental illness" is just dukkha, which I have experienced myself. And I used to have several close friends whose dukkha I observed from the outside. I made an analogy that I think you misunderstood. I meant that "romance" is an attractive state of mind that we often crave, yet does not satisfy as we wish. Same as how a meth high is an attractive state of mind that someone who has tried meth often craves, yet does not satisfy as they wish. I don't see what is wrong with this analogy, but you seem to be using it as an accusation.
Not eating, crying, living in a park, etc. all are the result of karma. Temporary relief may be helpful, but more important is cutting off the problem at its root, even if it's painful.
but I guess this argument can't go much further because it's difficult to prove to what extent DNA makes a subjective experience relievable.
I will say however that my opinion on meds is they may be unfortunate in so far as they can possibly interfere with meditation practice,but the alternative(stopping them early)may be down right disasterous.
I have said on other threads that sometimes a second opinion about meds might not be a bad thing,but giving medical advice when we don't really understand the situation(especially when we are not trained)is irresponsible,even if we believe that we are doing it in the best interests of the person concerned,and unfortunately meditation can on ocassion not be benificial to certain people.
Again Kate I wish you well both in your practice and in your health issues.
With metta
I have lived with lifelong anxiety (mostly in the form of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder).
Starting meditation, for the person with anxiety, is quite tricky. Trying to sit still and focus inward can create a sense of amplification of the anxious thoughts. If you do manage to relax some, relaxation can stir up intense anxiety. Biofeedback therapists have known about this for a long time; they call it Relaxation-Induced Anxiety (RIA).
It is possible for the person with severe anxiety to learn to meditate skillfully. I have done it, but it took me ten years. I really misunderstood the purpose and uses of meditation at the beginning, but at least I started on a path that got me where I am now.
My tips are: it's necessary to pace oneself, not do very much at first, not do very much for while, ease a toe into the water. One needs to develop a sensitivity to the question: "Am I getting more anxious now? Is meditating the wrong thing to do right now?" And one needs to find other ways to calm down.
Some other ways I have used are: T'ai Chi, metta (lovingkindness) meditation.
Also, I find it more helpful to use something outside myself as the object of meditation, like sounds or sights. Using the breath is fraught with difficulty; putting the attention there can amplify spiraling cycles of anxiety and tension.
And I have used biofeedback devices. The best one I have found is the Stress Eraser. About $120. It's not Buddhism, but it can prepare one for more skillful meditation by teaching one what a relaxed breath pacing feels like.
-Mike
I do have much decreased anxiety in day-to-day life. And increased equanimity, lovingkindness, compassion, and sympathetic joy. (The Brahma-Viharas).
However, you must note a few things. I take several prescription medications that have a calming effect, including an antidepressant, mood stabilizer, GABA-reuptake-inhibitor, and a mild tranquilizer. There is no way I could have learned to meditate skillfully without these.
When I started these medications (not all at once), each one decreased my anxiety somewhat. However, I had an incredible amount of residual anxiety. Like most people with anxiety, my mind was spinning and I had very little insight into the nature of thought. I constantly "bought into" my thoughts as if they presented an immediate danger, and they came at me so fast I couldn't see what was happening for a long time.
The medications reduced the anxiety, but there was also a habit... a habit of buying into my thoughts. A tendency to turn to despair and fear. As a mental habit, the kind the Buddha spoke of, the medications had little effect. Eventually I had to confront this as a mental habit.
The number one stabilizing and guiding influence in my life is psychotherapy; I have been in psychotherapy for 20 years. There is no way I could have learned to meditate skillfully without therapy either.
My path of meditation has been a very rocky one. At first, I didn't understand that sometimes I was increasing my anxiety. I even ended up in the hospital once after trying to meditate a lot. I'm not kidding.
So you are mostly right. You are 99% right when you say a person with severe anxiety and depression should not embark on a meditative path.
I did it, but (1) I had a great therapist for 20 years, (2) I had a shelf-full of medications, (3) I ended up in the hospital once, (4) and it still took me 10 years.
If I could give advice to myself 10 years ago, I would tell myself not to get so excited about meditation, but look for really gentle, grounding calming activities. I would tell myself to journal a lot. To look for sources of lovingkindness and compassion. To do metta, just a few minutes per day, but stick to it.
I do believe in neuroplasticity. I think my brain is wired differently after 20 years of therapy and 10 years of meditation. I think that it's possible to work incredibly deep changes. My DNA wired me to be very unhappy; but with consistent metta practice and all the rest, I think I can be a happy person. I think the happiness can well up from deep inside. I'm not there yet but I have seen great changes in the past year.
Mike