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Enlightened People
Joshua
Veteran
Does anybody know or know of anybody who is enlightened?
How common is it for people to be enlightened in the world, at a sangha?
Two people I've developed a soft spot for are Thanissaro Bhikkhu and Matthieu Ricard. Anybody know about their levels are spiritual attainment?
How common is it for people to be enlightened in the world, at a sangha?
Two people I've developed a soft spot for are Thanissaro Bhikkhu and Matthieu Ricard. Anybody know about their levels are spiritual attainment?
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Comments
I certainly think there are many highly realized practitioners and teachers around the world. No way of really confirming or "proving" it though.
A few people who I think are/where realized are:
HH Dalai Lama
Dudjom Rinpoche
Kunzang Dechen Lingpa
Shodo Harada
Ajahn Chah
I think there are loads of others who could also be mentioned.
All I can tell is when someone is further down the path than I. However, I think it is an error to be too focused on the goal ... reaching enlightenment is a process that is only attained by paying attention to the process.
Do you know if historically anyone has ever publically stated their having become enlightened?
I feel like every buddhist is further down the path than I :-/
Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, Brilliant Moon: An Autobiography of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, Shambhala 2008
Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal, Light of Fearless Indestructible Wisdom: The Life and Legacy of Kyabje Jigdral Yeshe Dorje, His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche
Also Chatral Rinpoche is worth investigating, though there is much less written about him than either of these masters. Most masters will keep their attainment concealed from all but their close students.
I'll definitely check that out, I don't really know anything about him, but his legacy was alluded to a bunch when I read The Tibetan Book of the Living and Dying, which also brings to mind Jamyang Chökyi Lodrö, what do you think about him?
I will read about Chatral Rinpoche as well as Shenpen Nangwa's suggestions.
For a person to state they're enlightened they'd be suggesting some remaining core and consequently be a farse. But what if someone is point-blank asked about their enlightenment? I understand the Dalai Lama has been asked and denied his enlightenment. Is this a demonstration of humility? Perhaps a preemptive effort to circumvent incredulity?
For the first paragraph. Using your analogy, here's how I would look at it. Well, this is speaking of the goal of bodhisattva. You peel back the layers to get to the core, and then when you get to the goal you are the core, the layers, and the emptiness. It's an understanding that you can't pin anything down as being anything, including "yourself."
As for the second paragraph. It all depends on how you use the term enlightenment. To me, there are different levels of enlightenment. How an enlightened person or the dalai lama answers is based on two things. Ultimate enlightenment is buddhahood. If the dalai lama says he is not enlightened, it means that all of his negative karma has not been exhausted yet, and he is not a buddha. I'm sure he's enlightened using certain definitions of enlightenment, but then again it's not all that rare.(well, relatively speaking. obviously it's pretty rare.)
I don't understand the second paragraph. Is this distinguishment between auddhahood and an arahant a Mahayana one? I'm not well versed in Mahayana philosophies.
You can't be a buddha in theravada. Arahant is the ultimate attainment. In mahayana arahant is...the lowest of the highest attainments.
John T. Bullitt stated, excellently:
Who knows really? People who describe themselves as enlightened, except for the Buddha, are in my mind suspect and should be treated only with benign curiosity.
Let me quote chapter 9 of the diamond sutra for you.
Also, the statement is implicit that his mental continuum is cleaned of all obscurations: not only emotional.
Also, it is good to go to the sanskrit imho, mere I as being different as the metaphysical connotation of the concept "atman" (diff. between pudgala and atman per se).
Finally, can a Buddha say he has awaken? Yes he can. Conventionally speaking, not in a ultimate sense.
Thanissaro's power level is over 1 million when he goes Super Saiyan.
Over 1 million? There's no way that could be right! :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik
Hm. Food for thought. This reeks of subtleties as to exactly what enlightenment is. I suppose I should first figure that out. It seems if it's a difficult subject to agree upon then it must by extension be a difficult subject to grasp. For me no doubt fueled by the fact that I've never held the company of monks before.
But who somebody please shed some light on this concept: How in hell (ought I say Niraya?) can the Dalai Lama be a living arahant yet still have karmic debt?
Please see my post above about that.
I agree Sherab.
.
http://www.amaravati.org/abmnew/index.php/teachings/audio
.
On a retreat when he was trying to encourage everyone practice through to liberation he said..... " You have to do this yourself. I wish I could do it for you. If I could I would, but it has taken me my whole life to do it myself"
That was not a claim of enlightenment, but it was a matter of fact ackowledgement of a realized teacher. He also cleared up some misconceptions of what the life for someone like him is like. He still has cares, but they are gone and forgotten once arisen.
He's very special.
_/\_
Ajan Maha Boowa, Thailand
as far as i know He still teaches Dhamma
Thanks everybody.
He is declaring his Enlightenment.
spiritual people might become rainbow body, leave indestructable vajra body, or leave holy serica seed etc.
But then, you have to way till the person die.
You can believe in fairy-tale legends of incorrupt bodies, be they dead Buddhists or dead Christian saints (Therese of Lisieux, Charles de Foucaud, etc.) if it comforts you.
The people who have most illuminated my path have done so by how they lived rather than how they died.
Well, I'm just suggesting one way to verify their "status". One is the way they die.
Of course, some saints can pull out serica seeds while they are still alive.
All people are "enlightened", or nobody is "enlightenend". This is a paradox, but I can explain.
Either you understand that there is only a single mind, and it is already enlightened (and all the things you thought were sentient beings are understood to be you and you them and all none of the above), or you are still in samsara and you ask questions about this and that one because you consider them to be separate from you.
I think we're surrounded by enlightened beings, arhants, bodhisattvas, but they're low-key. It takes a discerning eye and heart to perceive them.
it's rare for beings who renounce their egoistic behavior to announce their presence to the world. so it'll be hard to find them.
However, they strive to engage sentient beings and help them achieve liberation, in various means.
we talked about korea and he kept pouring me tea.
oh he also talked about how he loves to ski even though he's really old.
oh he also makes the best vegan brownies.
really nice guy, really simple, really down to earth.
but when you get him into the meditation hall for a talk or zazen meditation, then he's strictly business! SIT!
honestly this guy is enlightened, his eyes sparkle. but then i think to myself. there really is no difference between this man and anyone else i've met. everyone has has the potential to be who they are.
so now i've just been trying to see the buddha in everyone.
which really helps when i am interacting with people.
:orange: