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Native American spirituality
Joshua
Veteran
Are there correlations between the Great White Spirit of indigenous American beliefs and the Ground Luminosity of Buddhism?
0
Comments
Only if you choose to create them.
Such distractions are exactly that.
Spiritual truth is universal... The personification of said truth isn't...
so all spiritual practices, who genuinely tries to find it out, are likely to discover it or get close to it.
so they will all more and more begin to believe and say the same things the closer they are from the truth.
All genuine paths leads to the truth; some take longer to get there, some end in dead ends tho.
can you elaborate a bit please?
federica, yeah, I'm sort of reverse engineering here to better understand Native American beliefs rather than Buddhist ones because I'm part Cheyenne I'm very curious to draw bridges between the two simply because if I understand Buddhism decently then any bridge I create will greatly facilitate a more genuine understanding.
Many major cities have a Native American Community House (could go by various names: American Indian Community Center, etc.) where the urban Indian population gathers. The organization provides certain services, is an info clearinghouse, and serves as a social center. If you could find one near you, you could go and begin introducing yourself. You can tell people you're trying to reconnect with your Cheyenne ancestry, and probably they'll welcome you. If you're able to do a little volunteer work for them now and then (ask if you can help in any way--office work, stuffing envelopes, whatever), you'll make a good impression, you'll show you're serious about your Native ancestry (lots of people claim Native ancestry just to be cool), and they'll probably take you under their wing. In this way you can gradually learn about spirituality and other traditions, and you may meet some Cheyennes to learn from.
Do you know what percentage Cheyenne you are?
I can't even grow nearly any facial hair!
William Blackmore
<cite>The Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1869-1870)</cite>, Vol. 1, No. 3 (1869) p. 307
The Indian Messiah
Author(s): Alice C. FletcherSource: The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 4, No. 12 (Jan. - Mar., 1891), p. 57
William Blackmore
<cite>The Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1869-1870)</cite>, Vol. 1, No. 3 (1869) p. 315
These tribes are now confined to a district of country from which the buffalo has almost entirely disappeared, and the smaller game remaining in it is too shy and too fleet to be killed with bows and arrows. If the hunters of these tribes venture into the region of the buffalo, they are liable at any moment to come into contact with the border Indians, the Osages, Delawares, and others, who claim as their own bunting-grounds all the lands over which the buffalo now roams. When such meetings occur, sanguinary fights are sure to follow, in which the border Indian, owing to the superiority of his arms, and his skill in the use of them, is sure to be the victor.
I am certainly not six feet tall, a meager 5'9'' rather, though unusually broad and oddly enough with fine dirty blond hair very similar to Scandinavian hair. I fear the Cheyenne may think me strange if I popped up claiming ancestral decent, especially from Indiana. Though fortunately I'm quite tan with subtly "squinty" eyes. One day I ought to show up though.
I've always adored the name Vaiveahtoish--He Who Alights on the Clouds.
You think they'll let me have it? It will totally convince me to go...
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that if you really love the name, you could go through a legal procedure for an official name change, and add it as a middle name to your existing legal name. But probably it's best to remain open to the spontaneity of someday receiving a name that you might like even better, because it suits you in some special way.
In the meantime, maybe you can find books on Cheyenne history and spirituality to begin your journey of discovery of your heritage.
Yeah.
How do you know so much about this?
Probably means tathagatagharba or alaya-vijnana or dharmakaya:
It deals with 2 minds. We can call them 'mind of Man' and 'mind of Dao'.
In succinct, it is something like the subtlest body of consciousness, I think with correlations to the white light of bardo. Though I am prone to error, as I have the misfortune of projecting my existentialistic philosophies of a cosmic consciousness into everything Buddhist which never fails to dilute the intended meaning.
Erm, off topic though entirely necessary--at some point in your life, Upala, would you have ever identified yourself as being Taoist? Or would you simply chalk it up to one and the same truth, that a true Taoist or Buddhist wouldn't identify themselves with, as you would say--dualistic, linguistic qualifiers (if that makes some degree of sense)?
Daoism, imo, is more playful and more accepting of the physical. Buddhism (generally) seems more rule-oriented than Daoism too. The Daoist does nothing yet nothing remains undone; the Buddhist anxiously worries whenever he breaks a vow. The Daoist knows rules will inevitably be broken thus doesn't make them.
There is probably a perennial philosophy of which Buddhism and Daoism are both.
Aha, so my suspicions were true. Well thank you Upala, a thread within a thread and I feel very informed yet again.
I think I have a good enough picture, Valois. But if you do find any more info, pls feel free to post it. (Interesting direction this thread has taken...it's ok by me!
Well, I don't have to post it, unless I find something paramount towards comprehension, it's for me too like I said, when I read the book I was ignorantly biting off more than I could chew since I was a newbie at Buddhism in general let alone the sometimes profound Tibetan teachings Sogyal elucidated that hopefully I could now begin to comprehend and appreciate.
..
I don't think I know much about Taoism itself, outside of random verses that Upala loves to send me and a few wiki articles I've read, most of my comprehension is through projecting Buddhism onto it and then finding points of departure. I think the vows distinction he made is more in light of the fact that Taoism (at least pure Taoism), has no real vows at all. It'd be like describing the nature of dharma and bodhicitta or some such to a Buddhist-to-be in a Dhammapada sized package and letting them figure out the rest intuitively as personalized through empirical self-enlightenment.
I was just trying to explain a personal distinction really. I think that it is easy to think or imagine that I fail to live up to the practice of the vows and the perfections and the like, and this can result in anxiety and disappointment.
Daoism seems more forgiving in this regard.
This, of course, generalizes Daoism to a great extreme; Daoism has varieties just like Buddhism. One distinction could be made between daojia and daochiao. Daojia would be the philosophical version, focused on the writings of Laozi, Zhuangzi, etc. This philosophy inspired the scientists and materialists of the time and was responsible for a lot of Chinese technological advancement. The philosophy was also codified into religion (daochiao) with its temples and elaborate rituals -- silliness like the Celestial Bureaucracy that the 3 worms in your belly visit once a month to report your sins; silliness like abstaining from grain to kill off those worms.
It is so easy to see the distinction between jia and chiao within Daoism, but surely the distinction can be found in almost all religions.
I studied religions at Uni and work in a large library. I'm a bit of a Sinophile.
Yes. Though I think it might be even more correct to say that Daoism and Confucianism are incorporated (literally, it is part of their body, their being) in the Chinese people and that it was unavoidable that this unique zhongguoren-ness expressed itself through whatever new religion entered the picture. Chinese society, for example, does not have the sunyasin tradition of India, so monks have to be self-sufficient in this regard, they cannot beg for their food in China. (Or so I have read.)
China does have a tradition of forest hermits but they don't go begging. People with "empty bowls" beg from them!
Nah, hell, I want to learn about Taoism too.
When Buddhism came to China it had to deal with Confucianism, which upholds filial piety as the ultimate virtue and duty. This means that Chinese society was not very accepting of the idea of (younger) people renouncing the household. Many looked at the new Chinese Buddhist monastics as being no more than free-loaders.
[...]
These new forms could be seen most clearly in various commercial activities of Chinese temples which had not existed in Indian Mahāyāna, such as grain milling, oil seed pressing, money lending, pawnshops, loans of grain to peasants (with interest), mutual financing associations, hotels and hostelries, and rental of temple lands to farmers in exchange for some percentage of the crop. In other areas, Chinese temples carried over previously existing Indian Mahāyāna commercial practices such as loans (with interest) against pledges, auction sales of clothing and fabrics, use of lay servants within the monastery to carry out commercial transactions on behalf of the sangha, and allowing goods donated to the sangha which were not used by the monks to be sold or loaned out to earn profits for the sangha. Even in these practices which were carryovers from India, however, new forms developed in China as monks came to be allowed to handle gold and silver and carry out commercial transactions including usury on an individual basis. In most cases such transformations were less a result of changes in the Indian Vinaya than a disregarding of it in practice in China. URL="http://www.buddhistethics.org/3/ornatow1.html"]2[/URL
Thus, in Chinese Buddhism, monasteries became more self-sufficient. URL="http://www.buddhismandwork.com/Managing_Mindfully/BUDDHA-CH2.htm"]3[/URL
I wasn't implying that Chinese Buddhist or Daoist monks or nuns lack rules guiding their conduct. I was referring to the (pre-Religious, pre-daochiao) ideal of what a Real Person is. Daoist monasticism has, I assume, just as many rules as Buddhist monasticism. If you are interested in that, I recommend Livia Kohn's translation of the Fengdao kejie (Rules and precepts for Daoist observance).
I find the idea of Daoist 'rules and precepts' to be laughably absurd though. The Daodejing says this much of morality:
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos. URL="http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/%7Ephalsall/texts/taote-v3.html#38"]4[/URL
But I was expressing a disposition for the ideal of the True Man, the Mountain Man and not the Monk.
And thanks for taking the time to type all this out. You said, though, that the Taoist monks/nuns know that rules will be broken. So...are they more flexible? How does that work? Actually, from what I've read, the rules aren't applied in other Buddhist traditions; I've never heard of anyone being excommunicated, even though "stuff" happens regularly.
I meant the pre-religious Daoists, 'Daoists' before there was a religion of that name, not the monks and nuns. It is my personal opinion that the religion Daoism is practically an affront to the philosophy of Laozi and Zhuangzi.
Laozi knew (as I quoted ch. 38 of the ddj above) that once morality has arisen, once the codes are written, then the Dao has been lost already. If there is a thought of this is good to do and this is forbidden, then the Dao is already lost. I guess the religion Daoism could be a way to return to the Dao (as could any religion really) but it goes about it in a very silly way, IMO.
Everyone should start with the dao de jing. It's even included in Goddard's Buddhist Bible.
道
So...are you a Daoist on a Buddhist website? (I won't tell, if you won't.
Most of us have lost the dao is Laozi's point, imo. To get it back he says you must let go. Some let themselves go qua Buddhism, some let themselves qua other Isms. But we all try to let go, to loosen those knots. Or we might even realize that the knots are our best feature. The warped old tree is not selected by the lumberjack, you know what I mean?
Thanks to Valois for loaning us her thread.
Hehe, I'll be doing such comparative studies alongside you, at leisure I might add. I hope to have such a thread myself, and since I learn most through debate and discussion it will be sooner than later if nobody does it before me.
..
And Dakini, I believe you have my anatomy wrong!
Was it the name perhaps? It's pronounced like Valwah, if perhaps you had a Louis-y sort of take, or if I appear androgynous, hm, that's disconcerting.
Moving right along...I'll be looking forward to your new thread.
P.S. Yes, I got the pronunciation right away. It's from French.
Can I please press it a bit further, out of good humour of course, I can certainly be very feminine in real life, but why did you think I was womanly at first take? (It's something my friends have joked about a lot and that I joke about with them.)
I can't continue on that I just needed to let out what we all know happened a bit.