Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

non-violence

edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Hey Guys,

I'm guessing this is well-covered ground but I'm still going to ask. My study leads me to believe that Buddhism is inherently non-violent. However what is said about self-defense? If your intention is self-protection and not the harm of others is it acceptable to protect yourself or your family even if that requires the application of well-intentioned violence?

Thanks for your thoughts and your effort in answering this question.

--Chris

Comments

  • ShiftPlusOneShiftPlusOne Veteran
    edited December 2010
    My opinion: Absolutely... more of a duty even.
    Opinion of someone some people seem to respect: The Dalai Lama thinks so.
    Actual teachings: I have no idea.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Hey Guys,

    I'm guessing this is well-covered ground but I'm still going to ask. My study leads me to believe that Buddhism is inherently non-violent. However what is said about self-defense? If your intention is self-protection and not the harm of others is it acceptable to protect yourself or your family even if that requires the application of well-intentioned violence?

    Thanks for your thoughts and your effort in answering this question.

    --Chris

    Harming others is unskillfull and we should pay great heed In not causing suffering to others, However if there ever does come a time when it is required to defend oneself one should apply means applicable with minimum harm to the assailent, You cant do much good as a Trainee Bodhisattva if you let the first person who has a problem with you take your life !
  • edited December 2010
    Buddhism is quite non-violent... In circumstances when you are forced to bring harm to another it must be done with bodhicitta at heart.

    1. You must be defending something incredibly meaningful to you (I.e. if you're protecting your own life, it must be done with a thought such as; "I must protect my life so that I may continue to help others".
    2. You must willfully accept the consequences of bringing harm to another sentient being.. Regardless of the reasons and motivation, you must bare the karma of such an action. It may be true that bringing harm to another sentient being for the sake of protecting would bring less negative karma than willfully harming another just to do it; but, you still accumulate that negative karma. As such, you must be willing to accept the ripening of said karma for the sake of protecting another; or yourself.

    But, there is always a way to solve problems without violence.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I read a fictional (liberties but based on journalistic look at 'the boy Lama' Yeshe) book based on the life of Lama Yeshe. It said that Lama Yeshe's response to the Iranian hostage crisis was that the U.S. should notify U.S.S.R. of the plan so a holocaust is averted. But then they should send a squadron of bombers over Tehran so low that they break all the windows in the city.

    Then start diplomatic talks.

    How's that?
  • hermitwinhermitwin Veteran
    edited December 2010
    run for your life and hide.
  • edited December 2010
    Thank you guys. I imagine that "self-defense" is in itself a way of placing undue worth on "I" and the impermanent self. Since Buddhism teaches that life and death are one in the same, just iterations of your constantly changing self, I guess choosing violence in order to protect my physical self would be attachment to that physical self. And that attachment leads to suffering.

    So, would a truly enlightened Buddhist simply accept his or her impermanence without apprehension? And I'm not saying that is what I would do nor am I asking what you would do but instead, what does Buddhism lead us to believe the Buddha would do?

    Thanks for all your replies so far. This is an aspect of Buddhism that I've struggled with and it is helpful to hear such diverse perspectives.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    Lama Yeshe's response to the Iranian hostage crisis...

    Nice idea, but that assumes the other party is rational, which in this case has been amply demonstrated not to be true.
  • edited December 2010
    The strict Buddhist answer? The Simile of the Saw gives us the answer:
    "Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves.

    In practice, very difficult to achieve. Especially in the home life.
  • edited December 2010
    Vangelis wrote: »
    The strict Buddhist answer? The Simile of the Saw gives us the answer:



    In practice, very difficult to achieve. Especially in the home life.

    Thank you, Vanegelis. This makes perfect sense and addresses my question perfectly. Self-defense implies an attachment to self and to this life. A true Buddhist (not me, mind you) or Buddha would instead accept this life as temporary, this body as naught more than a vehicle, etc. A true Buddha would accept the oneness of the world and disregard the one/other dualism that plagues us and in that sense accept that they are one in the others they view as their enemies, attackers or killers.

    That makes perfect sense even if I think I'm too attached to my reptilian brain to simply accept my death without some preoccupation with my life. But it is something to meditate on and to reflect on. Thank you for sharing and if I've misunderstood or missed an aspect please point me in the proper direction.
  • edited December 2010
    i wouldn't say self-defense is a mistaken attachment to the body and a permanent self for one because to let aggressive and violent people have their way we could potentially be allowing them to hurt others in the future if we don't at first attempt to stop them. and as caz said it is unwise to allow yourself to be subdued by others who are simply inflamed by their delusional anger when you have a responsibility as a bodhisattva to keep yourself safe so that you can benefit living beings with this body. though non-violence in situations other than these kind certainly are appropriate
  • edited December 2010
    i wouldn't say self-defense is a mistaken attachment to the body and a permanent self for one because to let aggressive and violent people have their way we could potentially be allowing them to hurt others in the future if we don't at first attempt to stop them.

    Stopping aggressive people with metta is a far more powerful lesson for them than stopping them with violence. Violence will only teach them that violence is an answer to problems. Of course, if our metta is puny (which in the vast majority of us it is) then we have no other recourse and we unwisely use violence to stop violence.

    The Buddha, however, had much more powerful weapons against violence as is evidenced by the story of Nalagiri the elephant in the suttas in which he used his powerful metta to subdue an angry, drunken elephant set upon him by his evil cousin Devadatta. In fact, the Buddha never even used violence or said anything aggressive towards his cousin who sought to kill him.

    In practice of course, none of us has the great power of metta that a Buddha or a great Arahant has. So in our ignorance and powerlessness, we resort to violence.
Sign In or Register to comment.