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Thanks for bringing up the topic of Meat Eaters -vs- Vegetarians!
LET'S GET READY TO RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUMBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLE!
There is a thread about this already covering many, many different sides of this argument - and since I'm at work - someone else will come to the rescue and point this thread out to both of us!
Actually, that is the beauty of Buddhism. Buddhism is not a faith or belief based religion. My belief in Buddha, Nirvana (or call it "absolute truth" if you want to ), and rebirth (but not reincarnation, since that is not a Buddhist belief), is irrelevant. Buddha never taught anybody to believe anything. He never said "Come and believe", he said "Come and see". The question, more precisely, is does Buddhism work, that is, the practice of meditation? If it does, then the existence of a historical person is irrelevant. It is sort of like a gym membership: if you work out there, and it helps you get in shape, does it matter who the founder of the gym was? If it works, do it, if not, do something else. Religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc., require people to believe certain things, and worship in a certain way, etc., and some even claim to be the "only true religion", and so on. But, at least in the tradition of Buddhism that I follow, there is no "worship", since Buddha was not a god. Buddhism is not about "believe in this, and in the next world, you get that", but about living in the present moment. Buddhists may make merit (punya) to have a better rebirth, but ultimately, that is not the point in Buddhism. For arguments sake, don't call it Buddhism or Nirvana, but a good way to live seeking after absolute truth (whatever it is, regardless of the label for a real truth-seeker.) Then it really doesn't matter who existed or what you call yourself.
I am walking away on this one I still mentally tired from Hunt4life talking up my right to carry a AK47.
However.........MEAT IS MURDER.
Vegetables are living beings also. TO eat a vegetable is murder. I can't even eat veggies or fruit being that I am allergic. SO calling me a murderer is fine but being that I can't eat veggies and fruit maybe they are the murderers.
I'm vegetarian, but read that many Buddhists aren't anymore
Actually the Buddha wasn't vegetarian. He ate whatever he collected in his begging bowl. He said it's fine to eat meat as long as it wasn't killed specifically for you. Tibetan Buddhists have never practiced vegetarianism (except for some very specific practices). So I'm not sure what you mean by "anymore".
Well, I think you're being a bit oversensitive there, Herm. It's a valid point. You come in accusing meateaters of commiting murder, but yet the Buddha ate meat, so I guess that makes him a murderer as well. Maybe you need to develop a little thicker skin, eh bud?
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited January 2006
If we're going to turn this thread into one about vegetarianism, you can check back and refer to this one....
Buddha lived a long time ago. Since that time history has given us economic prosperity and education along with that are new twists of what we call our value system. It changes as we change. Remember Darwin. One day there will be no religion, just us left with our values and self determination.
HH
Buddha lived a long time ago. Since that time history has given us economic prosperity and education along with that are new twists of what we call our value system. It changes as we change. Remember Darwin. One day there will be no religion, just us left with our values and self determination.
HH
Herman,
That's a good point. I never thought about meat-eating the way you put it. Very interesting and very thought-provoking.
Buddhism can teach that one shouldn't hold on to what "has" been or what has gone on before. And Buddhism is mature enough to be able to change with the times without making it's history look invalid or stupid. It's smart enough to learn a lesson and move on.
Sorry to jump in like this when this subject has been so fully covered. If you take a group of people from a western country where the slaughter of animals in hidden from them, and make them witness the the slaughter and butchering of an animal and them offer to cook some for them on the spot. I think that a high percentage will decline your offer. There is that compassion within us, a regard for life. It is perhaps necessary try to not become de-sensitised.
The bushmen of the Kalahari always thank the animal that they have hunted for giving its life to them, perhaps that a small token of respect helps.
Basically I think Buddhism can keep changing for all we care - because other than the "non-attachment" and "loving-kindness", I don't think anything else is important enough to hold out for another 2500 years.
Hello all! This is my take on what has been said here. (What a way to begin posting!) If Siddharta Gautama had never existed, it would make no difference to me whatsoever. The Dhamma says that you must only accept that which holds truth for you, so if Buddhas' teachings hold truth for me, why should it matter to me if he existed or not? As for the other religions, if it were discovered somehow that one particular religion was the 'true' one, I would likewise not be concerned. I came to Buddhism via Theosophy, which shows the irrefutable link that exists between all religions, so to my mind, every religion holds equal validity, and has equal worth. All of them teach us to have unconditional love for our fellow beings, and to strive to do the best in all that we do. To me, that's the important thing, rather than making such a fuss about whether or not there is a God or Gods, or what we should call Him/Them.
Peace.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited January 2006
Hello Padawan, and welcome to our forum! Nice of you to post!
Although I said what I did befofe^ which would be right still having the teachings,
I also think if Gotama Siddartha never was! hence Buddhism too! that we would all
be on the path of being a righteous Humanism.
or so I would like to think.... ..because both like to look for the truth/not to follow
blindly teachings of some scripture (old or new) & be nice to each other etc. etc..
Excpet that being nice and a humanistic philosophy by themselves do not bring anyone to awakening.
What a pain it would be for millions of 'religious', with their vows and practices, across thousands of years, to dicover that the "being nice and a humanistic philosophy" were actually all that is needed for 'awakening' - 'cos we all die.
What if Gotama never existed? I mean, it is a possibility. There were centuries of oral tradition before his teachings were ever written down. Was it possible that during a time of religious unrest in Hinduism that "someone" could have made up these stories?
And what if the Buddha were actually a space alien who came to earth in in his Vimana (in the Vedas, a flying craft)?
Let's not speculate—life is short samsara is long.
The existance (or lack thereof) of Gautama Siddharta is not the point. He merely requested that we contemplate his teachings, as opposed to 'worshiping or following' him.
Whether he existed or not does not matter. The Dhamma exists, and it behoves those who can see it, to act upon it
"Just like last night when I showed up in your dreams to torment you. Although, with it being just a dream, I can't figure out why you kept dreaming of me in a meter maid uniform rolling a giant doughnut with a stick down a street full of mimes"
lol - you can be in my dream if i can be in yours.
(just dont appear in a saffron robe - the uniform wil do fine)
great question - tho "ifs" can be a bit iffy.
metta to all
Comments
Thanks for bringing up the topic of Meat Eaters -vs- Vegetarians!
LET'S GET READY TO RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUMBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLE!
There is a thread about this already covering many, many different sides of this argument - and since I'm at work - someone else will come to the rescue and point this thread out to both of us!
Oh yeah... welcome!
-bf
Please read this: On Vegetarianism
As well as this: Buddhism and Vegetarianism
And this: What the Buddha said about eating meat
And this Sutta about what is "stench": Āmagandha Sutta
I hope that this helps to answer your question.
Welcome to newbuddhist.com!
Best wishes.
Jason
Also, I would like to add:
More important than what you eat is how you eat.
I have recently become a vegetarian, but eating meat is also ok.
One should not be attached to either view [meat eating vs. vegetarianism].
To eat mindfully, and in moderation is better than simply obstaining from certain foods.
If one wishes to obstain from eating meat out of compassion, that is fine.
That is my understanding of what the Buddha taught.
This is what I take as my own practice.
However, to each his own.
Jason
You are having a laugh.....right?
jeez, when I was a fresh-faced 21-year-old, I thought I knew it all!!
However.........MEAT IS MURDER.
Vegetables are living beings also. TO eat a vegetable is murder. I can't even eat veggies or fruit being that I am allergic. SO calling me a murderer is fine but being that I can't eat veggies and fruit maybe they are the murderers.
Try cat Nip..
I'm buddhist, but the Devil made me do it....
regards
Actually the Buddha wasn't vegetarian. He ate whatever he collected in his begging bowl. He said it's fine to eat meat as long as it wasn't killed specifically for you. Tibetan Buddhists have never practiced vegetarianism (except for some very specific practices). So I'm not sure what you mean by "anymore".
Palzang
He's a (ready? wait for it....) Master Baiter.
Careful! He might catch ya!
-bf
http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10773#post10773
or you might prefer this one....
http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200&highlight=vegetarianism
Just keeping it neat and starting the spring-cleaning....!!
HH
Herman,
That's a good point. I never thought about meat-eating the way you put it. Very interesting and very thought-provoking.
Buddhism can teach that one shouldn't hold on to what "has" been or what has gone on before. And Buddhism is mature enough to be able to change with the times without making it's history look invalid or stupid. It's smart enough to learn a lesson and move on.
Maybe I'll learn a lesson too.
-bf
The bushmen of the Kalahari always thank the animal that they have hunted for giving its life to them, perhaps that a small token of respect helps.
Peace.
Nice Avatar, too....;)
I also think if Gotama Siddartha never was! hence Buddhism too! that we would all
be on the path of being a
righteous Humanism.
or so I would like to think.... ..because both like to look for the truth/not to follow
blindly teachings of some scripture (old or new) & be nice to each other etc. etc..
What a pain it would be for millions of 'religious', with their vows and practices, across thousands of years, to dicover that the "being nice and a humanistic philosophy" were actually all that is needed for 'awakening' - 'cos we all die.
And what if the Buddha were actually a space alien who came to earth in in his Vimana (in the Vedas, a flying craft)?
Let's not speculate—life is short samsara is long.
Whether he existed or not does not matter. The Dhamma exists, and it behoves those who can see it, to act upon it
lol - you can be in my dream if i can be in yours.
(just dont appear in a saffron robe - the uniform wil do fine)
great question - tho "ifs" can be a bit iffy.
metta to all