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Compassion difficulty.

edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Namaste!

As you all know, this is one (if not the most) key importances in Buddhism. Feel it to the ones you love, the ones you know, the strangers, and the folks you do not like.

I have two related questions:

1. It may take time for some, or it could come naturally(as it already should), but for those that it does not, how can you 'build it up'? I feel it towards those in bad situations, noticeably. But not those who are rude and angry. I know they must be going through something as well, or have, but I cannot feel that heartbreak for them. :-/

2. In Buddhism, there should be no dualism, right? So, that means no likes or dislikes, good or bad, etc. So, should you not dislike those, but have compassion instead of liking some then not others?

Thanks for the response(s)!
mettametta :)

Comments

  • edited December 2010
    There is one practice to generate compassion that begins with those closest to you, to facilitate ease in feeling compassion, and then extending it to neutral people, and then extending it to people you have difficulty with. I guess the key word here is "practice", as in, you have to keep doing it and keep trying to at least generate a compassionate attitude toward them for the pain they must be in. I don't know if you have to feel "heartbreak" for those you have difficulty with, but one can at least practice diligently and generate an attitude of generalized compassion. I guess you just have to keep trying.

    Ideally, in Buddhism, we should have compassion for all sentient beings, especially those in pain or suffering. The concept of non-dualism actually applies to Buddhist philosophy (the non-dual nature of phenomena), but it is true that we should attempt to generate compassion for all sentient beings. I don't know how the thought of "liking some and not others" fits in here, because IMO one does not necessarily have to "like" them in the sense of being drawn to them- sort of liking chocolate ice cream instead of rum raisin- "liking" takes place on a different level. But it is true that Buddhism teaches compassion toward all sentient beings without discrimination- even if we don't particularly like them.
  • ChrysalidChrysalid Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Bodhgaya wrote: »
    1. It may take time for some, or it could come naturally(as it already should), but for those that it does not, how can you 'build it up'? I feel it towards those in bad situations, noticeably. But not those who are rude and angry. I know they must be going through something as well, or have, but I cannot feel that heartbreak for them. :-/
    I'm exactly the same as you. The problem I have is that when I see people who are malicious, or angry/hate-filled my natural instinct is to hate them back, but I realise now that feeling that hate is only causing harm to myself.
    So instead, when I notice that feeling arising I mindfully let it fall away and try to see those people for what they are, which is suffering more than I am (otherwise they wouldn't be so hate-filled). I then feel sorry for them, which is pity. Now, I realise that pity isn't what we should be aiming for, we should be aiming for compassion and loving-kindness, but it's certainly a better reaction than the anger and hatred that used to arise within me. Baby steps.
  • ManiMani Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Hi Bodghaya.

    Yes, it's difficult to generate compassion in terms the brief example (#1) that you gave.

    A few things that helps me in these cases is first, to give my emotions a bit of space so that I do not react to them. This of course is sometimes the difficult part! If you can be successful with the first part, then sometimes it is easier to generate some compassion for them when you consider that their behavior is a result of the same ignorance, the same grasping mentality, the same emotional responses that we all have and go through. Through this lack of understanding, they are creating many more causes of future suffering. If you try to look at it in this way, a bit of compassion may be easier to generate.

    Actually another aspect of compassion could come in your reaction or rather even your lack of one. To explain this a little better, let's say that because of the various factors mentioned above, a person is rude to you. With a little mindfulness you might quickly realize that if you respond angrily, not only are you creating more karma yourself, but you are likely to trigger an angry response from them also. This creates more causes of future suffering for them as well. This idea comes from Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara.

    For us beginner's, we certainly need to summon "contrived bodhicitta". Even though it may only be words right now, with enough practice and understanding eventually it may come a little easier to have this mind that is not so contrived, but a little more...authentic.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I think by investigating and sitting with your negative feelings at first. But you should try to start with someone you have only a little negativity towards first such that it doesn't overpower you. And then that strengthens.

    As sherabdorje says the metta practice is good. Where you start with your people who you naturally love and then try to extend that wish for happiness and freedom from suffering to others.

    But on the spot I also think investigating your own negativity and sitting with it is good. And reflect that some of the people you like and dislike also have painful emotions that may cause them to act less skillfully than otherwise.
  • edited December 2010
    I'm just a beginner. I find this helps:

    I'm seeing or encountering troublesome people and I imagine them springing to action to save my life if I were in a car crash or fire. Then I reverse my imagination and I see myself jumping in and trying to save their life in a similar perilous situation (which I would do without hesitation).

    Either way it culminates with me feeling grateful to them, vice versa and us both being deeply grateful for the non-fatal outcome. The bond between all human beings has been realized.

    It's not too far from reality because I'm betting, unless there's a true psychopathology involved (mental illness) even with the most negative, troubled, self-absorbed person there's a good chance they will be shocked into action to save your life. That proves something to me which is good. When I'm tired and not at my best the above technique makes it easier to be kind to such difficult people.
  • edited December 2010
    Meditating every day on the love and compassion you feel for those closest to you, then, as Sherabdorje said, shifting the meditation to people for whom you feel neither love/compassion nor ill will, such as strangers, and bringing up the same love and compassion that you felt for your loved ones, (practice this for days, as long as you need to), then visualize people you don't like or have conflicts with, and meditate on that same love and compassion that arose so naturally when you focussed on your loved ones. Keep it up as part of a regular meditation practice, and you will, over time, "build it up". That's the purpose of that particular meditation.

    And you can be mindful of your thoughts and actions when you're around people whom you find challenging. Try to see them as human beings struggling through samsara like the rest of us. Others may be rude or angry because they haven't seen the true nature of reality yet, and they're clinging to ego. So they're in need of compassion.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Even the person we abhor the most, the murderer, the torturer, the rapist, the paedophile, was a babe in arms, deserving of love. If we deny it to them, how can we claim it for ourselves?
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Bodhgaya wrote: »
    But not those who are rude and angry.
    if you practice meditation seriously, you will go see deep inside.
    You will learn about yourself, and what motivated your rude behaviors and anger.

    By understanding yourself, you will understand others and feel love toward them.
  • edited December 2010
    Even the person we abhor the most, the murderer, the torturer, the rapist, the paedophile, was a babe in arms, deserving of love. If we deny it to them, how can we claim it for ourselves?

    We are conditioned to dislike these type of people; hence directing loving-kindness towards them is not easy. Perhaps, metta meditation is a good place to start; by directing our loving-kindness to these abominably wicked and evil people as well. The intent is to cultivate our inherent capacity for unconditional love, but not to excuse their cruelty and deny the pain and suffering they caused to their victims. How do you'll direct loving-kindness or compassion to such violent people?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Even the person we abhor the most, the murderer, the torturer, the rapist, the paedophile, was a babe in arms, deserving of love. If we deny it to them, how can we claim it for ourselves?

    As I've said elsewhere, I think this is the ultimate test of Compassion, especially for the victims of such people. This topic deserves its own thread, IMO. But Simon, how does the justice system where you are deal with these people? Typically, they're just locked away, few, if any, get the therapy they so desperately need. I would imagine it would be more cost-effective to give them therapy in the short-to-medium run, rather than to warehouse them for the long run. Though it's said that paedophilia isn't "curable". I think that depends on the paedophile. You words, "babe in arms" struck me; if these people could return to that stage of life and experience unconditional love for the duration of therapy (there is a type of therapy that recreates the family of origin as a psychologically "healthy" family), they probably would turn out to be much happier people. What's needed is a more humane (and better funded) criminal justice system.

    Maybe an experiment could be done, as has been done with seriously physically ill people: put some of these offenders into a therapy and rehabilitation program. 1/2 the group will have a group of sanghas send them compassion and loving-kindness via meditation on a regular basis. The other half will get no such long-distance benefit. See if in the end, the first group makes better progress. That type of thing has been done with hospital patients and prayer circles, and the prayed-for group got well faster. It would be a good opportunity for dharma practitioners to develop their compassion meditation practice: meditating on these offenders.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Metta practice helps us cope with the fear that is experienced in seeing these undesirable people and feeling the hurt.
  • edited December 2010
    Chrysalid wrote: »
    I'm exactly the same as you. The problem I have is that when I see people who are malicious, or angry/hate-filled my natural instinct is to hate them back, but I realise now that feeling that hate is only causing harm to myself.
    So instead, when I notice that feeling arising I mindfully let it fall away and try to see those people for what they are, which is suffering more than I am (otherwise they wouldn't be so hate-filled). I then feel sorry for them, which is pity. Now, I realise that pity isn't what we should be aiming for, we should be aiming for compassion and loving-kindness, but it's certainly a better reaction than the anger and hatred that used to arise within me. Baby steps.


    That is usually what I do- feel pity. Better than hatred, I'd say.
  • edited December 2010
    I was just struck by the title of this thread on the main page: Compassion Difficulty. All I have to say is, sometimes having compassion is difficult. Nobody ever said it would be easy. Sometimes you have to work at it. Pity is a close approximation, but it has a quality of not valuing the other person's life as much as our own, and we have to work past that. Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's really difficult. We just have to keep up our working at it.
  • edited December 2010
    Dakini wrote: »
    As I've said elsewhere, I think this is the ultimate test of Compassion, especially for the victims of such people. This topic deserves its own thread, IMO. But Simon, how does the justice system where you are deal with these people? Typically, they're just locked away, few, if any, get the therapy they so desperately need. I would imagine it would be more cost-effective to give them therapy in the short-to-medium run, rather than to warehouse them for the long run. Though it's said that paedophilia isn't "curable". I think that depends on the paedophile. You words, "babe in arms" struck me; if these people could return to that stage of life and experience unconditional love for the duration of therapy (there is a type of therapy that recreates the family of origin as a psychologically "healthy" family), they probably would turn out to be much happier people. What's needed is a more humane (and better funded) criminal justice system.

    Maybe an experiment could be done, as has been done with seriously physically ill people: put some of these offenders into a therapy and rehabilitation program. 1/2 the group will have a group of sanghas send them compassion and loving-kindness via meditation on a regular basis. The other half will get no such long-distance benefit. See if in the end, the first group makes better progress. That type of thing has been done with hospital patients and prayer circles, and the prayed-for group got well faster. It would be a good opportunity for dharma practitioners to develop their compassion meditation practice: meditating on these offenders.


    To this, there have been some monks who have gone to prisons and helped the inmates. Because it's true, locking them away with the only help of rehabilitation from themselves rarely gets them anywhere. Meditation is said to even help some of the deeper damages in the mind- and pedophiles may not have a curable way, like homosexuals or what have you- but there's a difference between that and murder. They both could require help- it mostly deals with urges and mental clarity needed. Because, face it, most people deal out these things because they don't know what else to do, I'd say. Confusion, ignorance, etc. It's like getting angry at someone- it's not going to change anything but you still have that burden on your mind. Like Hitler, he hated Jewish people, but what he did probably didn't help him feel less of that way.
  • edited December 2010
    As well, thank you all!
    I'm going to practice on this.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    That is karuna (compassion or love = with suffer) practice. A cousin (and remedy) of metta.

    Follow your bliss tm.
  • edited December 2010
    I remember reading one thing that said True compassion is heartbreak.

    I have felt that before, so I can say that is true for me. You suffer because of others suffering. It's kind of beautiful in a sad way.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    It is sad. But isn't it beautiful how we respond that way. Kind of conveniant to those who are positivists. But also for all.

    Trungpa said that awake mind was like a soft spot. And that at first we were like adolescent deer wondering what these tender antlers were for.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Going through this thread, I read a single post by a new member (it says they only have 1 post at any rate). No one said anything about it, so I'm not sure if it was somehow missed, but it seems to be very good advice. Deep down even in the most selfish humans there is this one-ness with others; rushing to their aid in an emergency shows us this. It's not something we really think about -- if something happens right in front of us, we do something.
    Roger wrote: »
    I'm just a beginner. I find this helps:

    I'm seeing or encountering troublesome people and I imagine them springing to action to save my life if I were in a car crash or fire. Then I reverse my imagination and I see myself jumping in and trying to save their life in a similar perilous situation (which I would do without hesitation).

    Either way it culminates with me feeling grateful to them, vice versa and us both being deeply grateful for the non-fatal outcome. The bond between all human beings has been realized.

    It's not too far from reality because I'm betting, unless there's a true psychopathology involved (mental illness) even with the most negative, troubled, self-absorbed person there's a good chance they will be shocked into action to save your life. That proves something to me which is good. When I'm tired and not at my best the above technique makes it easier to be kind to such difficult people.
  • edited December 2010
    Cloud wrote: »
    Going through this thread, I read a single post by a new member (it says they only have 1 post at any rate). No one said anything about it, so I'm not sure if it was somehow missed, but it seems to be very good advice. Deep down even in the most selfish humans there is this one-ness with others; rushing to their aid in an emergency shows us this. It's not something we really think about -- if something happens right in front of us, we do something.

    May I tell about something that happened to me (and other bystanders)? I was in Boston's Little Italy around 1985 when this kid was threatening to jump off the elevated roadway to the street below.

    Firemen were soon all over the place, especially below where a team of firemen held one of those round canvas-covered hoops that people can jump into. The kid would not come off the railing so finally a fireman rushed and grabbed the kid.

    Then in absolute slow motion I remember seeing the kid fall back even though the fireman had a firm bear hug on both his legs. The kid kept falling back. The fireman started moving too. They both were falling off the overpass! The fireman would NOT let go! The complicated dull sound of the bodies crashing onto (not into!) the hoop I'll never forget.

    Outcome: fireman hits the pavement, the kid hits the edge of the hoop. Serious injuries for both and other firemen holding the hoop.

    I went home upset and disturbed. Did not know the outcome.

    Later it was in a magazine! They interviewed the fireman who grabbed the kid. They asked him why he didn't let go.

    He said, (paraphrased) "The moment I grabbed onto him we were bonded. There was nothing in this universe which would have allowed me to let go."

    Anyway, I think of that, and the thing I wrote above. More evidence of how we are TRULY connected to perfect "strangers" and should give them kindness and compassion - even the annoying ones :winkc:
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited December 2010
    That's beautiful, and helps to illustrate the point even more. Thank you Roger! :)

    (and thank you for your first post)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Billy Bragg:
    The time that it takes to make a baby
    Is the time it takes to make a cup of tea
    The love that we have is so important
  • edited December 2010
    no likes or dislikes

    When there is no likes on truth and dislikes on samsara, the natural elicitation of omnipresent metta will surface.
    With metta
  • edited December 2010
    I am always compassionate to 99% of people. It's just my nature. However, I struggle with arrogant and mean people. However, when I am at my best as far as understanding emptiness and non-dualism is when I feel the most compassion towards those people. So, my suggestion is to do metta meditation(just google it) and study emptiness.
  • edited December 2010
    Roger, what a beautiful story.
  • edited December 2010
    Cloud wrote: »
    That's beautiful, and helps to illustrate the point even more. Thank you Roger! :)
    zenbiker wrote: »
    Roger, what a beautiful story.

    Thank you C and z. That makes me happy; it's even better now since what I happened to witness is now "on the internet" presumably forever. :winkc: Sometimes I wonder what the fireman was like. Was he a practicing Buddhist (probably not) or just an "ordinary" guy (most likely); either way it could be a confirmation for anybody who happens to be in need of one.
  • edited December 2010
    Roger wrote: »
    May I tell about something that happened to me (and other bystanders)? I was in Boston's Little Italy around 1985 when this kid was threatening to jump off the elevated roadway to the street below.

    Firemen were soon all over the place, especially below where a team of firemen held one of those round canvas-covered hoops that people can jump into. The kid would not come off the railing so finally a fireman rushed and grabbed the kid.

    Then in absolute slow motion I remember seeing the kid fall back even though the fireman had a firm bear hug on both his legs. The kid kept falling back. The fireman started moving too. They both were falling off the overpass! The fireman would NOT let go! The complicated dull sound of the bodies crashing onto (not into!) the hoop I'll never forget.

    Outcome: fireman hits the pavement, the kid hits the edge of the hoop. Serious injuries for both and other firemen holding the hoop.

    I went home upset and disturbed. Did not know the outcome.

    Later it was in a magazine! They interviewed the fireman who grabbed the kid. They asked him why he didn't let go.

    He said, (paraphrased) "The moment I grabbed onto him we were bonded. There was nothing in this universe which would have allowed me to let go."

    Anyway, I think of that, and the thing I wrote above. More evidence of how we are TRULY connected to perfect "strangers" and should give them kindness and compassion - even the annoying ones :winkc:


    That's really nice. I get a bit sad when some people I know say they've lost faith in humanity. There may be news of nothing but the tramatic things that happen, but in the end I believe the good in everyone could prevail at some point. But unfortunately it doesn't for everyone, maybe because they don't get the help they need.
  • edited December 2010
    TheJourney wrote: »
    I am always compassionate to 99% of people. It's just my nature. However, I struggle with arrogant and mean people. However, when I am at my best as far as understanding emptiness and non-dualism is when I feel the most compassion towards those people. So, my suggestion is to do metta meditation(just google it) and study emptiness.


    I have that same challenge, more or less.

    Thanks :)
  • edited December 2010
    As well, thank you for all the posts.

    Very help.

    Metta.
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