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IS IT TRUE SOME TIBETAN BUDDHIST HAVE SEX DURING MEDITATION?
hermitwin
Veteran
I read about this once. Is it true?
0
Comments
There is waaay too much obsession about sex where ever you go imo. What if some Tibetans have sex and call it meditation? How does that influence our lives? Why the judgment and anger towards it?
Obsession about sex..
Eat dirt & call it caviar. Yeah.
:facepalm:
+1
In fact, in the Vinaya Pitaka, a monk that has sex results in expulsion from the order.
Is sex "bad"? Of course not! Is it the most extreme form of attachment and desire? Of course! Does it therefore lead to cessation of suffering? No. Therefore it is not the path and a monk that practices it is not practising the Noble Eightfold Path.
According to one of our members, Caz Namyaw, the Buddha did teach this in the form of Vajradhara. That, I believe, is in the Kagyu tradition.
But it's not done during regular meditation. It's a specific practice that involves meditation as one of the components, and it's not done from an egotistic standpoint, to the contrary; the participants visualize each other as deities, and it's technique to raise the Kundalini (or Inner Fire) as a method of entering the bliss state and experiencing enlightenment. From what I understand.
Action Mudra is also sex with a consort however this is not widely practised by many within the Vajrayana as one requires a high degree of meditative skill of dissolving winds into the central channel, permission from a master and a willing consort one whom is equally qualified, It is a skillfull method taught of disolving the inner winds which are the mounts for deluded minds to arise and once the mantel of such is fully dissolved Into the very subtle mind one experiences Great bliss.
As is said it is a very skilled method that Buddha was requested to teach. How to abandon samsara without abandoning the pretence of attachment.
One should remember according to Vajrayana that Buddha eminated and taught IN many forms and gave many teachings to the level of what people could comprehend and practise as he was like a skilled doctor, Certainly Vajrayana requires understanding of Mahayana and the foundation vehcile Hinayana for effective practise, However it is certainly not a violation of Buddhas Intent...He Intends us to be free from suffering by crushing the root of Samsara Your methods may vary.
Thank you for a good explanation, Caz. A couple of questions:
"abandon samsara without abandoning the pretence of attachment"--do you mean "without abandoning attachment"? And why wouldn't one want to abandon attachment; because attachment becomes the vehicle for the practice you describe? One uses attachment to, in the end, overcome it, or go beyond it?
Why would the Buddha have to teach different practices via different emanations? Why couldn't he teach to students at different levels of realisation as himself?
And, finally, is that lore about the Buddha teaching in different emanations, or as Vajradhara, in a text, or is it oral transmission?
Im not very knowledgeable With regards to such things but what I do know I'll try and explain. One would be far better off having someone whom has studied and practised for years explaining stuff like this, My fumbled attempts at explaination are from what I have heard or read from my teachers so forgive me in advanced for anything that is incorrect, Im not a good one for memorising the exact sources .
From what I have heard Buddha appeared In the form of Vajradhara to teach the Tantras revealing secret qualities of the Buddhas to those whom minds where ready for the quick path, Some of the Tantras I have heard where taught to Kings ones whom could not give away all they had and enter the renunciate life so one story I recall goes that a great king requested Buddha to teach him a method of how to become enlightened without him abandoning the pleasures of his palace, So Buddha gave the practise of Tantra as a method for him to overcome the root of all suffering Ordinary appearance, It is taught within the Mahayana that the root of all suffering is Self-grasping Ignorance and according to Mahayana methods we apply the teachings and meditations of Emptiness In order to eliminate this self grasping and attain Liberation and later Great enlightenment.
Vajrayana goes one step futher and as sees that Ordinary appearance is a cause of self grasping and thus seeks through the power of Deity self generation by first disolving the ordinary perecieved self Into complete emptiness where the apprehended object of self Dissapears and then through recognising this Emptiness as the Dharmakaya Body of a Buddha
(or truth Body of a Buddha) cognise the essential nature of the enlightened mind which is free from all Obstructions to knowledge ( The minds job is to understand objects ) From this state while maintaining recognition we Generate as an enlightened deity within our pureland percieving all objects as pure, Our self, others etc....and thus eliminating the root cause of samsara, Ordinary appearance which gives rise to self-grasping.
This deals with a generic concept of self Generation which is one half of a whole completion stage practise which is its twin is a bit more complex as it involves various inner winds and minds and so forth, But the general gist of it is that Vajrayana elaborates on what the Buddha nature we all have actually is which according to what I have heard and read is the Very subtle wind and the very subtle mind, Anyway completion stage practise Involves becoming familiar with the inner channels and so forth and gathering and dissolving the winds which act as mounts for various delusions to surface upon into the central channel which in turn generates a great bliss which In conjunction with concentrative equapoise is used to meditate upon the Emptiness of all phenomena thus transforming the Deity self Generation meditation into something which feels far more as it should, Thus when the Very subtle wind and mind are purified of all Imprints of Delusions they become through the force of these practises the Enlightened mind and Body of a Buddha being one of the same nature the mind being the same as the body, Completely free from all obstructions knowing all phenomena, as Is said In mahayana teachings all sentient beings have the capacity for enlightenment the Buddha seed or potential or whatever you wish to call it understanding Vajrayana we know this to be the Very subtle wind and mind that each sentient being has. So when Buddha appeared as Vajradhara to teach these methods he was Directly revealing something which could only be apprehended by those with particularly pure Karma so appeared in the very pure form of Vajradhara to teach these methods.
The Great beings who recieved these methods did not have to abandon samsaric pleasures as with Buddhas Hinayana or Mahayana teachings as they where taught exactly how using the pure appearance training to transform their daily enjoyments into that of the experiences of those who inhabit purelands, Which is why it is sometimes known as the path of attachment In song of the spring queen there is a line which goes " This method though born from the faults of attachment is unstained by the faults of attachment " as you say Dakini one uses the basis of attachment to transform it to free ourselves from suffering.
Action Mudra practise is only practised by a few as I have said in previous posts this is part of completion stage practise, But it is also optional as Full enlightenment is also attainable By another method within Vajrayana which I am not familiar with but think it is along the lines of a practise at the time of Death in the bardo which is done to directly accomplish the end result, For example Je Tsongkhapa founder of the Gelug tradition did not take an action Mudra consort like previous masters but showed a great conventional morale discipline and used the other method of bardo practise to set an example of purity that his followers could try to emulate and hopefully avoid the pitfuls of some of the degeneracy that has become more wide spread today with regards to action Mudras, Not to disparage the pure practitoners whom rely upon this method but as time marches on into degenerate ages Pure Dharma practise becomes less and less and unsuprisingly you may here reports of misuses and abuses of such.
1. Our Buddha nature is in the very subtle winds and very subtle mind?
2. One of the goals is to perceive all objects as pure. As opposed to ... what? As opposed to normal, everyday perception of objects as ................ (fill in the blank, please).
3. The alternative to Action Mudra is a practice at or near the time of death? Isn't there a meditation/visualization alternative one can do during one's active lifetime?
4. The great bliss can be achieved via meditation? Is that connected to the raising of the Inner Fire, or no?
Interesting that the King got to have his cake and eat it, too, so to speak. but I guess the point is that he realized through this advanced practice that the "cake" was empty of true value anyway, i.e. he realized that attachment, in the final analysis, was meaningless. He no longer related to his possessions and kingdom in a grasping way. Or am I projecting that into it? (Thanks for bearing with me.)
Don't think of Buddhanature as a single entity, it is all the favorable qualities of a being on the path to Buddhahood. Also, mind must always be associated with matter/energy. It can be coarsely associated as it is viz. the human predicament (a gross brain) or it can be more subtly associated as it is viz. the sentient beings of the formless realms. And, I think some would argue that the subtle association is the thread along which all karmic formations accrue like iron filings drawn to a magnet.
As objects. As tathata being objectified by a subject (mind) so that there arises in the mind a discriminatory awareness.
What I mean by all of this is, rather than the Buddha manifesting himself in some way for new teachings, what if those new teachings are actually the teachings of other enlightened beings, having used other faster means themselves and wanting to pass them on in an "authoritative" way, thus giving credit to the Buddha?
Thus the creation of all various schools of Buddhism, each being a different interpretation of the Dharma than the Buddha's but equally valid, using his interpretation as the initial template of course. This is why all paths lead to liberation. It is merely posing the Buddha as the true teacher of the new schools that causes conflict, almost a civil war of sorts. We are standing on the shoulders of giants, not always on the Buddha's alone.
Just something to think about.
OK, you guys, Caz and Upala, help me out here. Perceiving objects as objects, vs. perceiving them as "pure"? So...what does that mean, then, "pure"? Aren't they still objects? Or do you mean that ordinary perception is an illusion, it's full of projections, our perception is filtered through our mind? Vs. objects in their true nature? (Actually, objects don't inherently exist anyway, right? Really, they're just a form of energy.)
This discussion is starting to sound like it belongs in the "Advanced Concepts" dept.
1. Yes so I have read and heard, The very Subtle wind and mind are what eventually tranform into the mind and body of a Buddha.
2. Everything that appears to the mind is the nature of the mind, Being of no self There is No I and no others in reality the percieved imputation of these things arises from Ignorance and causes cyclic existance and suffering, Ingorance causes beings Grasp at objects as being truely existant and Viewing them as ordinary and faulty etc. Pure view transforms these things In that one who trains in pure view realizes these cognised phenomena to be Empty of true existance and then uses that emptiness as a basis of imputation for transforming them into pure enjoyments and experiences via Deity generation practise so that once supreme concentration is acheived ones mind will mix with the object of concentration completely and then the imagined deity and pure land you generate as and In will come into fruition and you will percieve only pure appearances thus killing Ordinary view that gives rise to Self grasping.
This method is bringing the end result into the path, A bit like having the intention to go somewhere as you cant get to wherever you want be without first seeing yourself there.
3. The training In Generation and completion stage are the practises one does during this lifetime, As I said Im not that knowledgable but the general basis of accomplishing enlightenment through these methods Is removing all delusion through Hinayana, and Mahayana preparations and then having entered the Mahayana path clear away delusions and their Imprints untill one becomes a High Bodhisattva, and then Clearing away the most Subtle Obstructions with Tantra. These practises can either be done as a progression or Inconjuction with one another. The practise of this lifetime it is certain that meditating On self Generation will certainly bring very clear results there are various lower Tantras that are available that only make use of Self Generation as a basis for becoming familar with the practise, Enlightenment can be achieve via these methods but they are slower then the Highest Yoga Tantras.
4. Great bliss occurs when one dissolves the Inner winds Into the central channel as for the mechanics dont quiz me I dont know very much LOL.
There are alot of wrong views about tantra some believe it is a great perversion of Buddhas so called original teachings however the many great masters of the past have accomplished full enlightenment using these and various methods of Tantric practise It is a most profound vehcile therefore it is better for people not to Degrade any teachings of the Buddha as what karma they Incur is certainly not worth it if you value Dharma.
Currently No I have not been Initated Into Completion stage practises of HYT, But do practise some lower yoga Tantras of self generation, Most of what ive said regarding it is a general conception one gets of practising basics apart from the completion stage practises. For greater detail you would have to ask someone of more knowledge who would be willing to share.
I practise with the New Kadampa Tradition.
Hi caz, agree with you here and would take it a step further to suggest that looking for information on an informal internet discussion forum is not skillful
Believe it or not, most of the people on this site are looking for information on an informal internet discussion forum. I hope those people and the forum managers aren't wasting their time. :P
Whereas wearing a bikini on a crowded beach is normal, walking down a crowded high street wearing a bikini, isn't.
That kind of thing.......
If you want a generic answer then forums can only provide so far, There are alot of aspects practitoners take vows not to disscuss with people whom are unready as seen alot of misconceptions arise, But then again people whom know very little misconceptions can arise for them as well. Therefore I think rather then hiding behind a wall of silence some elaboration is need basic though it maybe enough that misconceptions can be dispelled...Thats the problem with secret practise if its to secret people think your doing something disturbing LOL
A good Idea Andy
actually this is more right on than you imagine.
LOL That was witty
"In order to develop inner heat (tummo), under certain circumstances and conditions, one should rely on a female consort as one's assistant". HH the Dalai Lama, in "Dakini's Warm Breath", by J. Simmer-Brown