Why is there suffering in the first place?

ravkes

Don't get me wrong Buddha is the man and his teachings have helped me greatly, but why does suffering happen in the first place?

Linc

Look at the Four Noble Truths.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

SherabDorje

Because humans tend to cling to things, people, or situations that are all invariably transitory. Maybe reading a basic story of the Buddha's early years would be helpful. This would give you a better idea about how he arrived at the first Noble Truth, "Life is suffering."

If your question is any deeper than that, it would come under what Buddhists refer to as an "imponderable". In a deeper sense, suffering just is. People can alleviate their own suffering by recognizing the Four Noble Truths and The Eightfold Path, but, deeper than that, it just is. I recommend that you read a biography of the early life of the Buddha up to the time of his enlightenment, and supplement that with a study of the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path.

ravkes

Yes, I suppose it would be deeper than that. It seems here in this world you're born into delusion. Unfortunately for a lot of other children, the impoverished, are born into physical suffering as well. It's incredibly sad. What did they do to be born into these situations, here at least in the western world it's almost all self-afflicted.. but surprisingly even in this a lot of people can't seem to get out of it and have severe depression and mental illness. The absurdity of it all and the level of suffering has just recently blown my mind, that's all.

I understand your responses but for the vast majority of people you can't just go up to them and say: suffering arises from attachment, stop clinging. We have habitual responses, these responses have been ingrained in us and taught to us against our will: mainly in schools and social circles. So we are trained to suffer, and for most of us the only way to realize something's wrong is to come about a realization through the suffering. It definitely feels real while we're in it.

SherabDorje

Supposedly it's karma, if you believe in karma. There have been plenty of discussions about karma and the suffering children are born into on this site, and I bet if you do a search you would find them easily.

Mani

The previous answers are pretty right on, and from a Mahayana point of view these causes (attachment, karma) can be attributed to a main cause of ignorance.

(BTW, nice job with the new look, Lincoln. Probably a better place to mention that, but since I saw your post it reminded me.)

Linc

Thanks @Mani

Cloud

Suffering happens because there is always some element of ignorance in human society. We perpetuate that suffering, giving ignorance its rebirth again and again through the generations and our education system which expound it. When all of that ignorance has been replaced by compassion with wisdom, no human will be born into a state of suffering.

Bardodream

You are not being deep enough. Suffering is only the translation of a more intense word with a deeper meaning. Samsara itself is "suffering". The experience of reality you are having is based on impermenance, the whole material universe(s) are impermanent.

The question really being asked here is really "why do we exist in this state whatsoever?", "why is there samsara?", and in the most basic sense "what is actually going on?". These are complicated philosophical questions, and the Buddha would probably tell you that you do not need the answer to them to experience liberation.

A direct answer to your question would be: Suffering exists in the first place because it is the necessary outcome of the experience of duality and consciousness. With subject/object distinctions and the rising of Samsara, suffering is the outcome. You suffer because you think of yourself as something, and that there are other things separate from you. With no separation, there is no suffering, because there is no one to suffer (anatman), and no objects to cause suffering (Nirvana).

[DeletedUser]

Don't get me wrong Buddha is the man and his teachings have helped me greatly, but why does suffering happen in the first place?

Because liberation is never firmly "computerized" in them :cool:

sukhita

Yes, I suppose it would be deeper than that. It seems here in this world you're born into delusion. Unfortunately for a lot of other children, the impoverished, are born into physical suffering as well. It's incredibly sad. What did they do to be born into these situations, here at least in the western world it's almost all self-afflicted.. but surprisingly even in this a lot of people can't seem to get out of it and have severe depression and mental illness. The absurdity of it all and the level of suffering has just recently blown my mind, that's all.

I understand your responses but for the vast majority of people you can't just go up to them and say: suffering arises from attachment, stop clinging. We have habitual responses, these responses have been ingrained in us and taught to us against our will: mainly in schools and social circles. So we are trained to suffer, and for most of us the only way to realize something's wrong is to come about a realization through the suffering. It definitely feels real while we're in it.

sukhita

The fact that a new-born baby can experience unbearable pain and anguish suggests that craving and clinging (in this life-time) cannot be the only reason for this physical suffering. There is perhaps other reasons for our physical suffering. Fruits of karma carried over multiple life-times? Life-stream flowing ad infinitum? Some people are quite comfortable to add karma to the mix, whilst this may not appeal to others. According to the sutras, we have been suffering in samsara for an unimaginable period; and the beginning point of samsara is not evident, just as there is no beginning point to a circle. We can't even think about a "first cause" because everything is relative and inter-dependent. There is conditionality everywhere. Where does all this leave us? Perhaps we will never fully understand the reasons for our physical suffering. Maybe this should be set aside as an imponderable?

Then there is the second Noble Truth of dukkha (suffering): suffering, pain, misery, dis-ease, etc. and, at a deeper level, it seems to suggest the overall "unsatisfactoriness" of life in samsara. It seems that the "cessation of dukkha" (third Noble Truth) refers to cessation of mental suffering rather than the "direct" cessation of physical pain and illness (such as cancer, for example). Life does become a lot easier to live with lesser mental suffering and torment - this, at least, I know for myself from personal experience. So, just practice...

My first post trying out Vanilla. Couldn't seem to find formatting menu. But change is inevitable, I'm learning to embrace it.

[EDIT - Sorry about the quote and comment coming out in two separate posts - I have now figured out my mistake ]

Dazron

What is the connection between samsara and dukkha? Are they the same thing?

sukhita

Samsara means the endless cycle of birth, suffering (dukkha) and death. Depending on the practitioner, this could mean moment-to-moment birth and death (constant change) in this life-time or also birth, suffering and death over multiple lifetimes. Dukkha is a part of samsara, that is the "unsatisfactoriness" of living in samsara. Google these terms for a more substantial meaning.

hermitwin

why we suffer? bcos of how we think, if my son dies
but i hate him bcos he is retarded, i wont suffer much.
but if my son is a top scholar, i will suffer terribly.

Dazron

Errrr.... what?

That is a very strange way to describe attachment!

ShiftPlusOne

why we suffer? bcos of how we think, if my son dies
but i hate him bcos he is retarded, i wont suffer much.
but if my son is a top scholar, i will suffer terribly.

I don't think there should be a "we" in there.

Dazron

Doesn't suffering (dukkha) arise when we regard ourselves as an entity - self - and then the self attempts to 'self-preserve' because it doesn't want to 'end'? Also, self leads to craving? The idea of self dependant arising is the reason human beings suffer.

Even children and babies have a 'concept' of self even if it isn't self-aware as such - the instinct to self-preserve exists, otherwise it wouldn't eat or respond to stimuli.

With regards to physical suffering, maybe the beginnings of our suffering are sown at this early age because of the self-preservation instinct?

Cinorjer

Don't get me wrong Buddha is the man and his teachings have helped me greatly, but why does suffering happen in the first place?

I think you mean, not what causes suffering (Noble Truths) but why humanity ended up in such a state in the first place?

The short answer is, all we know for certain is that however it happened, people have the capacity and inclination to develop selfish desires and thus suffer. The prescription for suffering doesn't depend on how we ended up with this disease, only that Buddha found a cure.

I suppose the ability to form selfish desires came with the evolution of a mind capable of being aware of a self. Evolution doesn't guarantee perfection or care about a mind's overall happiness, only survival.

Dazron

I agree Cinorjer, that is the survival instinct that creates the illusion of Self in order to ensure self-preservation.

It's a bit like the mindless mind. I see that as an out-moded survival instinct.

sukhita

I think our mind by itself is like a clear mirror capable of reflecting the Truth, the way things really are. It's the cartoonist in us (our Ego/Self) that draws quick caricatures on this clear mirror of exaggerated impressions, memories, hopes, insecurity, etc.. and thereby leading us astray. It always boils down to seeing beyond the "art work" of this unwanted cartoonist.