Trust in the Dharma

Deformed

Hi all. It's been a little while since I've been here, mainly because I didn't feel I had anything to share, but after a few more months of practice and observation, I have found myself in a both interesting and uncomfortable spot.

I am learning to "let go", so to speak, on a variety of things in my life. Of course, things within the relationship with my partner has been the lion's share of this practice, which doesn't surprise me at all, considering the emotional intensity of partner relationships. It tends to be a most difficult training ground, but relationships with other people like family, friends and co-workers also sit at the forefront of my practice.

So "letting go" has been both a comfort and a discomfort. It seriously reminds me that this practice offers no easy answers, but hey, that's what brought me to it in the first place. I no longer wanted to take empty comfort in delusion and quick fixes, and instead take comfort in and gratefully move with reality, or "what is".

Now I find myself in a place where my trust in the Dharma is tested. When I let go of my anger, jealousy and fears sometimes I find myself in a spot sometimes where I feel I "should" be upset. I wonder if this could be old synapses firing again out of old habits. I find myself in a cycle of letting go, feeling I "should" be upset, suffering again, and letting go again. Sometimes this cycle can happen in just a day.

I feel my trust in the Dharma is very crucial to breaking this cycle, and is the main issue here. If my trust in the Dharma is not the issue, then what is? Coincidentally, a fellow at my Sangha brought this trust up last week in discussion, and this further brought it to my attention.

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

seeker242

What good comes from getting upset? I personally can't think of any.

SherabDorje

If it's happening with less and less intensity, I suspect it's as you say, "old synapses firing", or old habit patterns that are still at work, but not as strongly. Once we become comfortable with old habit patterns it's hard to change them, even if they're negative. I hope for your sake that this is happening with less and less intensity. I think the fact that you're mindful of it and making note of it says a lot. IMHO that's the first step toward changing old maladaptive habit patterns, and your Dharma practice seems to be bearing fruit in this regard.

Deformed

What good comes from getting upset? I personally can't think of any.

Well, sometimes getting upset can prompt communication about what I am suffering over. Now as I write that, it does seem very circular. (haha)

SherabDorje

Only a truly accomplished being can always avoid getting upset. I have heard that HHDL sometimes becomes momentarily irritated, and that he became quite upset when he heard about what was happening at Tienamen Square, even while they were in negotiations with the Chinese. And I think it's as Deformed says- if a mild or moderate upset surfaces over an issue with another person, communication can take place about it. People need to be stirred to action in some way, whether one calls it "upset" or "objection".

Seeker242: Do you never become upset? If you do, what upsets you?

Deformed

If it's happening with less and less intensity, I suspect it's as you say, "old synapses firing", or old habit patterns that are still at work, but not as strongly. Once we become comfortable with old habit patterns it's hard to change them, even if they're negative. I hope for your sake that this is happening with less and less intensity. I think the fact that you're mindful of it and making note of it says a lot. IMHO that's the first step toward changing old maladaptive habit patterns, and your Dharma practice seems to be bearing fruit in this regard.

It does seem to happen with less intensity. Fears, jealousy and anger used to send me into a zombie-like state, experiencing the suffering over and over. I overlooked all the wonderful things and beings right in front of me.

So yes, I seem to be breaking the habit, however, in doing so, sometimes I think, "this is too easy", or "this feels too much like a relief", and then I question this feeling and thought and go back to "but she lied about this" or "I should be upset".

Mind you, breaking this cycle is exponentially easier in more casual relationships with others, but the Dharma practice indeed has been fruitful in every relationship. I suppose I question the fruit itself, however deluded that may be?

Dazzle

Perhaps when you notice that you're feeling that you 'should' or 'shouldn't' do something, it might be helpful to repeat the Refuge ("I take refuge in the Buddha, I take refuge in the Dhamma/Dharma,I take refuge in the Sangha") and then just relax and place your awareness with your breathing for a while.

SherabDorje

If the fruit is more productive, genuine, and compassionate relationships, why question it? IMHO it seems appropriate to me. And IMO the questioning, the "I should be upset", is just the old habit pattern at work.

I have had times in my life in which I've been really depressed or really subject to a lot of anxiety, and then when I feel better, I ask myself "Is this a genuine and non-deluded state of being?" But if it contributes to genuineness and true compassion and good relationships with others, I think it's a lot more genuine than being in a negative state. The Scottish author/psychiatrist R.D. Laing compared this type of recovery to having been blind and then having had an operation that allowed one to see. One becomes disoriented and perhaps even in pain at first, but after a while it gets more comfortable.

I wish you well.

Cinorjer

I agree with the other posters and your own suspicions that all you're experiencing is the aftereffect of a lifetime of mental conditioning. Because you now are beginning to observe your thoughts in action, you see what your mind would be doing before you learned a different way of dealing with the world.

seeker242

Only a truly accomplished being can always avoid getting upset.

Agreed. Nearly everyone gets upset at one time or another. How long are you going to be upset, and why, is another matter altogether IMO.

Seeker242: Do you never become upset? If you do, what upsets you?

I occasionally become upset of course yes. For example, several months ago someone broke into my car and stole a large amount of money and other things. I was very upset!!, for about a 1/2 hour. Then I realized that being upset serves no constructive purpose, helps nothing and does absolutely nothing except cause suffering for myself, then the "upset" feeling turned to happiness. It did because I didn't have to be upset. I think that if one can realize that being upset serves no constructive purpose, only causes harm to your own state of mind and nothing more, then one stops saying things like "I should be upset about this". Because saying "I should be upset" is equivalent to saying "I should be suffering", which is nonsensical and self deprecating if you really examine it. There is ultimately no real reason to be upset about anything. But of course, that does not prevent it from happening. :-) However, keeping this in mind, and actually believing it, makes "letting go" that much easier I have found.

seeker242

Hmm, double post. Still getting used to this forum software.

Epicurus

I have one big problem which is losing my identity. I feel constantly like I'm betraying myself.

This is a real problem, because submitting to any one theory is not the way to go. So I think it's very unhealthy to mistrust the Dharma to a certain extent. Even if the benefits are clear....you have to ask yourself, who is going to be there to enjoy them?

I say this as someone who values greatly "staying true to myself". I hate façades and faking. Sometimes I don't know if I'm being myself or if I'm being the Dharma.

SherabDorje

I have one big problem which is losing my identity. I feel constantly like I'm betraying myself.

So who wrote the paragraph? Maybe your definition of identity could be expanded. I'm not saying "you are being the Dharma" (I know you won't if you don't want to). I'm just suggesting that the concept of identity could be expanded. Sometimes when practicing mindfulness I feel like my identity is dissolving, but having read various teachings, I know that's ok. "Identities" are constantly changing and evolving. That's part of what the Dharma teaches us.

Rmurray1985

Patience is the key... "Transforming" is a long gradual process. Of course, you'll sometimes have "eureka!" moments that'll cause; more or less, instant change in your thought patterns...

The only tidbit of advice I can give you is: "you have to love yourself before you can truly love another"

Epicurus

^ does that mean loving your faults as well? And keeping them?

Sherab I know. But that doesn't sit right with me. My identity isn't that much of a devil to be purged or forgotten. That paragraph was definitely written by my sense of identity. Or at least it was my sense of identity that asked me to write it.

I lose my sense of humor, people don't know who they are talking to any more. I don't know what I like and don't like anymore.

Reprogramming myself is not something I take lightly at all. It's like dying. I don't want to die.

SherabDorje

I don't know if a Zen story helps or not, but here goes- A man once went to Bodhidharma and asked him "Please help me settle my mind!" Bodhidharma said "Show me your mind and I'll settle it for you." The man said "I cannot find my mind to show to you", and Bodhidharma said "See! It is already settled!"

Rmurray1985

^ does that mean loving your faults as well? And keeping them?

Sherab I know. But that doesn't sit right with me. My identity isn't that much of a devil to be purged or forgotten. That paragraph was definitely written by my sense of identity. Or at least it was my sense of identity that asked me to write it.

I lose my sense of humor, people don't know who they are talking to any more. I don't know what I like and don't like anymore.

Reprogramming myself is not something I take lightly at all. It's like dying. I don't want to die.

Yes and no... Accepting of your "faults" and recognizing them as "faults" is the basis to loving oneself. But, if you see these things as faults, why would you want them to remain with you? Loving yourself also means wanting to improve yourself. (Ultimately for the sake of being in a good state to truly help others)

Epicurus

Problem is in who is considering them faults. Certainly I don't think there is anything wrong with my sarcasm, for example. Or my acting grumpy (acting being the key word here since it's all about humor value). It's only other people who sometimes don't like it. Then again, all my friends like it...that's why they are my friends - they like how I am, not how I'm not.

I want to improve myself for sure, but I think ultimately you can't satisfy everyone. What some would label as being judgmental...others recognize as my way of caring for the outcome. Just as an example.

You say "Ultimately for the sake of being in a good state to truly help others" which is interesting. If I'm not happy with how I am, I guess I can't really help anyone.

Deformed

Perhaps when you notice that you're feeling that you 'should' or 'shouldn't' do something, it might be helpful to repeat the Refuge ("I take refuge in the Buddha, I take refuge in the Dhamma/Dharma,I take refuge in the Sangha") and then just relax and place your awareness with your breathing for a while.

Thanks for the reminder. Indeed it is about the present moment.

Deformed

If the fruit is more productive, genuine, and compassionate relationships, why question it? IMHO it seems appropriate to me. And IMO the questioning, the "I should be upset", is just the old habit pattern at work.

I have had times in my life in which I've been really depressed or really subject to a lot of anxiety, and then when I feel better, I ask myself "Is this a genuine and non-deluded state of being?" But if it contributes to genuineness and true compassion and good relationships with others, I think it's a lot more genuine than being in a negative state. The Scottish author/psychiatrist R.D. Laing compared this type of recovery to having been blind and then having had an operation that allowed one to see. One becomes disoriented and perhaps even in pain at first, but after a while it gets more comfortable.

I wish you well.

Thanks for simply pointing out the larger picture and what negativity and anxiety don't contribute, compared to a less weighted feeling and the true compassion it provides. If this comfortable feeling with reality is not a reaction to begin with like the suffering is, it makes sense that it would be more genuine and less deluded.

Thanks for the well wishes, and the same to you.

Deformed

^ does that mean loving your faults as well? And keeping them?

Sherab I know. But that doesn't sit right with me. My identity isn't that much of a devil to be purged or forgotten. That paragraph was definitely written by my sense of identity. Or at least it was my sense of identity that asked me to write it.

I lose my sense of humor, people don't know who they are talking to any more. I don't know what I like and don't like anymore.

Reprogramming myself is not something I take lightly at all. It's like dying. I don't want to die.

But wouldn't the practice of mindfulness more strongly resemble "deprogramming" oneself? To sit with emotions, letting them run their course seems more like eschewing all the suppositions we have about our feelings that have formed from our own "programming", so to speak.

I do enjoy your skepticism, by the way.