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Sure words may be inadequate, but I'm wondering why he's here posting at all if he knows words are inadequate.
Maybe im not enlightened but if someone goes and claims enlightenment there is no way I'm going to believe them unless they have something behind them.
There is life. It's a fact. I just have to accept it. Not that I don't want to accept it and don't embrace it, i'm just saying postulating about existence or non-existence simply diverts our attention from enjoying life. Just accept that there is life. Now that there is life, what do I want to do with it?
Maybe im not enlightened but if someone goes and claims enlightenment there is no way I'm going to believe them unless they have something behind them.
Well, the Buddha did say to question everything, really examine ideas before accepting them (or not accepting them). But one can do that a bit more gently, can't one?
He's posting because he just had a flash of insight, and so he's excited. It's a free country (so they say), it's a free website. He can post, anyone can post so long as they don't put others down.
@aHappyNihilist: There's more than one stage of enlightenment, if that helps. The mind changes progressively, even when we aren't aware of it, and the "stages" are where things click into place. The first stage is of seeing; of knowing the truth. That in itself can cause a great deal of joy and change the direction of one's life. The further stages are of transformation heading toward that perfect enlightenment of the Buddha.
ok great, so we both want to enjoy our life. I'm currently going about doing that by trying to understand how you reached a state of enlightenment, which is the highest enjoyment of life. Your revelation that their is no truth isn't doing it for me.
What exactly is truth, a purpose to life? a description of reality?
I apologize if I was rude but I just totally don't understand your meaning.
Good values, TJ. Just be careful to use skillful means, so you don't overwhelm the people you're trying to help. Don't get too carried away with yourself. As you noted earlier, it's your ego that's getting excited. Give the mind or ego time to settle down.
I don't know how I reached enlightenment. It was simply my path. I went from not caring to christianity to messianic judaism then I nearly converted to orthodox judaism then I became agnostic then I became a hardcore atheist then I became a seeker. From my time of being a seeker I have been influenced by buddhism, taoism, and new age spirituality.
What exactly is truth, a purpose to life? a description of reality?
I apologize if I was rude but I just totally don't understand your meaning.
I sort of get it. He's saying that all these religions, incl. Buddhism, think they have a corner on the "truth" market. Everyone believes their "way" is the truth. TJ is saying there is no one truth, because the Universe is chaotic, an infinite multiplicity of truths. And he finds that liberating; there's no ultimate truth to cling to. He's in freefall, sort of. That's his insight. If it fits you, fine, If it doesn't, fine.
Good values, TJ. Just be careful to use skillful means, so you don't overwhelm the people you're trying to help. Don't get too carried away with yourself. As you noted earlier, it's your ego that's getting excited. Give the mind or ego time to settle down.
Yes, I must be careful with people. I can't turn them away from the path. The great thing is, though, I think as long as I understand I can never fall to out of line with the tao or the ultimate or the all to a point where I lose the ability eo enjoy my life to the fullest.
ok well now your just purposefully avoiding clarification of your "revelation"
No i'm not. That's it. You're programmed to think that it's not possible that that could be it. But it is. It's up to you whether you choose to accept it.
ok so, basically there is one less thing to be attached to, truth. But so what? I already understand its bad to be attached to things like material wealth, but that doesn't mean anything. All you've done is said that there is no truth to be attached to, and this has somehow freed you. But your clearly attached to happiness, attached to freedom, attached to winning this argument.
I'm not attached to anything. If I thought that I had to act a specific way I would be attached. Yet there is no way to act. There is just life. As long as you're alive, you may as well enjoy it. If you understand that, you are free.
"You may as well enjoy it", so long as you don't hurt yourself or others, right? There are parameters around this freedom, there's still morality, right?
When Federica wakes up, my guess is she will move this to General Banter where it belongs. Its pretty disjointed and is only vaguely to do with Buddhism as far as I can see. No offense but I don't see how TJ's insight can be of use to anyone if he can't explain it clearly. C_W has done a better job of it so far.
I guess. I don't try to act moral, though. Usually you'll say i'm being moral, but it's ok if I don't act moral. I have lost the desire to harm others.
TJ your still attached to the enjoyment of life. Your still attached to life itself. Your apparently attached to helping me, or proving yourself superior. I'm still not sure which.
lol if you choose to see it that way then that's ok. Perhaps i'm attached. Perhaps my attachment isn't what you desire. Then don't use it. I don't care what you believe. Enjoy life, even if that means thinking what i'm saying is crazy.
I guess. I don't try to act moral, though. Usually you'll say i'm being moral, but it's ok if I don't act moral. I have lost the desire to harm others.
It's not about "acting moral", as in putting on an air, acting pious, or anything like that. If you've lost the desire to harm others, that's great. So you're de facto moral but without clinging to a moral code. Fascinating. You've simply become detached from any desire to harm others in any way, and in so being, you're moral. Congrats.
I guess. I don't try to act moral, though. Usually you'll say i'm being moral, but it's ok if I don't act moral. I have lost the desire to harm others.
It's not about "acting moral", as in putting on an air, acting pious, or anything like that. If you've lost the desire to harm others, that's great. So you're de facto moral but without clinging to a moral code. Fascinating. You've simply become detached from any desire to harm others in any way, and in so being, you're moral.
Morality is just a word. You're getting hung up on the words again.
your "revelation" is basically that the only rational value in life is enjoyment. In case you were curious you didn't come up with that. Also the happiness you get from that isn't enlightenment. I've had the same revelation and it made me happy for a while too. Actually the revelation is very similar to nihilism. Or maybe hedonism. But the fact is, even understanding that enjoyment is the only value doesn't guarantee it. You'll need a deeper revelation than that to conquer the attachment to enjoyment. I'd suggest buddhism.
Maybe you're the one who's getting hung up on a word I'm using to refer to a concept. by "moral" I mean simply not harming others. Language has its limitations, we have to work with what we have in that regard. I'll grant you that the word "moral", like the word "sin" has acquired baggage in our culture. I'm not using it in that sense.
Maybe you're the one who's getting hung up on a word I'm using to refer to a concept. by "moral" I mean simply not harming others. Language has its limitations, we have to work with what we have in that regard.
Exactly. None of these words are the truth. That is all i'm saying. That is why I don't care if people like what I have to say. Because they're right. I'm not saying the truth. So how can I care if they don't see it, or if they mock me, or if they think that i'm arrogant or whatever else they think. It's not gonna stop me from trying to help people see.
your "revelation" is basically that the only rational value in life is enjoyment. In case you were curious you didn't come up with that. Also the happiness you get from that isn't enlightenment. I've had the same revelation and it made me happy for a while too. Actually the revelation is very similar to nihilism. Or maybe hedonism. But the fact is, even understanding that enjoyment is the only value doesn't guarantee it. You'll need a deeper revelation than that to conquer the attachment to enjoyment. I'd suggest buddhism.
You don't have to pursue happiness if you don't want. YOU'RE FREE! Do whatever you want.
your revelation that you say enlightened you was that there is no truth so we can live however we want and we should just enjoy life. I think people already know that, but they choose to follow the noble truths, the eightfold path etc. to try to better enjoy life.
Exactly. You're living the enlightenment which you think you have to strive for right now! You just don't know that the truth of it is that none of it is ultimate truth. That's liberation.
Liberation is not knowing it's the truth? Or Liberation is like you, understanding that it's the truth?
Liberation is understanding that no truth is the ultimate truth. If there is no ultimate truth to be found, there is no standard to live by, and you are free!
your revelation that you say enlightened you was that there is no truth so we can live however we want and we should just enjoy life. I think people already know that, but they choose to follow the noble truths, the eightfold path etc. to try to better enjoy life.
Are you implying that LaVeyan Satanism is a possible outcome of enlightenment?
Think about this. There is more than one truth. Perhaps infinite, I don't know. Once you become "enlightened" within that truth you're basically at the peak of your reality. But you're still short of the highest enlightenment, which is understanding that none of these truths are ultimately true.
I think there is abundance. "The system" that we live within tells us there's not. Perhaps that's the next big evolution in our species. We'll understand that there's abundance.
I agree, TJ, scarcity thinking really limits people. On the other hand, the planet has finite resources, and there's so much greed, I'm concerned about the future. I think if everyone lived in an enlightened way, there would definitely be enough for everyone. (OK, except for global warming, and the resulting impending water shortage...)
I think there are powers above "us" which causes us to think this. I believe we as a species will rise against this lie. "Greed" will lose it's meaning. All we will know is abuncance. I believe that's our species' next step in our evolution.
It's coming. From what i've heard it's almost here. It could be a lie, who knows, but there's reason to believe change is upon us.
*edit* I don't believe we(not as humanity, but as the various parts making up the ultimate) will let that kind of a disaster happen. I have heard that earth is simply another being.
Perhaps since i'm a part of our species, even though i'm enlightened(it sounds like i'm talking myself up. Call me arrogant if you wish. I'm just being totally honest with my thoughts right now, because i'm trying to flesh out my understanding as well as help others) i'm still a part of this reality which consists of our species and perhaps i'm destined(of course if I so choose) in this time to help people in the transition. I evolve with my species. At least for now, idk.
why do you think truth is inherently conceptualizationing?
Because of the nature of the word truth. Truth implies that there is such a thing as non-truth. There is neither truth nor non-truth. Both of those are concepts.
to me, the nature of the word truth includes both these concepts; that truth and non-truth are concepts can also be a concept, couldnt it ? why are words so fallible when they are just as real an expression of the universe as the deepest essence of reality? is there any essence would you say, or does this truthlessness which you're talking to point to an essencelessness?
Comments
He's posting because he just had a flash of insight, and so he's excited. It's a free country (so they say), it's a free website. He can post, anyone can post so long as they don't put others down.
TheJourney - What i want to do with life is the same as anyone else, enjoy it.
also can you please answer my question about why you want to help people enjoy their lives?
I don't know why I want to help people, to be honest. I just do. It's my greatest desire. For now at least.
What exactly is truth, a purpose to life? a description of reality?
I apologize if I was rude but I just totally don't understand your meaning.
*edit* I don't believe we(not as humanity, but as the various parts making up the ultimate) will let that kind of a disaster happen. I have heard that earth is simply another being.
You've made it to 146 posts in one day. Ready to call it a day?