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oh bodhisattva, well then, make it effable so we all can hear, & all i can say is dont abandon your zazen, cause i know samsara is big and it will lap you up into its pool again, but you are strong, so stay strong with yourself, or something like that
Ah this abundance thing is rediculous. I feel greedy right now but I have to know its limits. Or perhaps there are none. But that just doesn't feel right. Who knows. Anyways, as long as i'm up...
in my truth there are two awakenings. First is an awakening where you finally get receptive to the truth. Not that you weren't perceptive before, but you were stuck in lower levels. Once you have your first awakening you will learn at an incredible rate. Or at least I did. And then you will attain the ultimate awakening. Liberation. Freedom.
*edit* It is important to understand that you are already free. That is one of the most subtle truths. You are free. This is not a metaphor. You are liberated. Does spiritual seeking give you a headache, and you prefer to play video games? You're free to do that. You are exactly where you should be. You know how I know this? Because you chose it. You have the choice. You've always had the choice.
>>>"TheJourney">>>>thickpaper, did the buddha tell you what enlightenment was like?
The Buddha told me or us nothing.He lived, he died, his teachings somehow reached us intact and extended.
>>>It's one of the big themes of buddhism that it's indescribable.
I disagree. It is hardly a theme at all. Many people become enlightened in the scriptures and when they are there, like the Buddha, they just continue with their life. At peace, with clarity and in truth.
>>>Enlightenment can only be experienced, not talked about.
But this is true of most rich human experinces, like love and rollercoasters. I think it may be a mistake to transpose this simple fact about the internal nature of experience into some mystical/unobtainable truth about enlightenment.
I cant know what it is like to be a bat unless I am a bat. I cant know what it is like to be enlightened unless I am enlightened.
>>>>If you don't believe me, that's great.
Such statements come over as insincere, which is wrong speach.
>>>>There's no truth to cling to.
In my understanding of dharma there are no truths to cling to, there are just the dharmic truths that stand immutable and upon which we can stand and, when ready, walk the path.
>>>I'm only here to help, if you don't like what I have to say then don't listen to me
As another said above, this is a discussion forum, it is also a community in senses.
If time is eternal, then the only logical conclusion is that we will all attain enlightenment. If you don't see that than you don't understand eternity. So what, we're all gonna be enlightened and then existence will just cease? There will be no such thing as an ego? Does that sound fun to you? Just droning through life, not caring about anything. If that does sound fun to you, more power to you. Enlightenment only has the meaning which you give it. For me, I enjoy life too much to give up the ego. I must learn to simply use the ego as I desire. None of the ego's thoughts are real. None of its desires are real. But yet I will still follow some of them. Why? Because I want to. I can create my own reality. It can be whatever I want. We all have this power. We just have to see it. Thinking that you have to fade away into losing the ego entirely is delusional. Then again all things are delusional. I'm here because I want to be. I suggest you go where you want to go as well.
Also there is an important question to ask. What is this "reality" that we desire so much? Is it various times and places? Or is it a moment? If it's various times and places then what i'm telling you is the highest truth there is. If it is a moment than i'm simply telling you about a moment i'm experiencing. It's the highest moment that has been reached at this point in time. Who knows whether i'm the only one or not. It doesn't matter anyway.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I think people will look back on this thread in a week and have a good chuckle.
"A week"?? I'm crying with laughter now! The word 'waffle' comes to mind.... Treacle and cream, anyone? Or an egg-over-easy?
>>>>"TheJourney">>>>If time is eternal, then the only logical conclusion is tha we will all attain enlightenment.
That is a big "IF".
Moreover the conclusion doesn't follow from the premis, for a huge varierty of reasons.
>>>If you don't see that than you don't understand eternity.
Then I don't understand eternity (I didn't long before you told me so).
>>So what, we're all gonna be enlightened and then existence will just cease? There will be no such thing as an ego? Does that sound fun to you? Just droning through life, not caring about anything.
Ummmmm?
>>>>Enlightenment only has the meaning which you give it.
But you said above it has no meaning and can only be experienced?
>>>For me, I enjoy life too much to give up the ego.
I don't see the ego is something that has to be given up by some act of choice. Rather it is a pernicious illusion.
>>>I must learn to simply use the ego as I desire.
OK, but I dont see how this is to be considererd dharma. I would imagine the most mystical mountain monk and the hard core materialist Buddhist would agree with me on this?
>>>>None of the ego's thoughts are real.
The ego doesn't have thoughts, the ego is the illusionary product of thoughts. It is caused by perspective, surely if you understand anataman you see this?
>>>None of its desires are real. But yet I will still follow some of them. Why? Because I want to. I can create my own reality. It can be whatever I want.
I am lost in what you say here.
>>>We all have this power. We just have to see it. Thinking that you have to fade away into losing the ego entirely is delusional.
Still lost.
>>>Then again all things are delusional. I'm here because I want to be.
Hello? Hello?
>>>I suggest you go where you want to go as well.
I am still lost, but it sounds like you are telling me to "get lost":p
"Eternal" and "impermanent" are just concepts. Neither of them are true. You don't have to understand eternity to see "the truth." But yet understanding eternity leads to some very high level truths. I don't talk about the logical conclusions of eternity because eternity is rule. I talk about it because in this reality eternity is a concept that seems to be necessary to understand the ultimate truth of no-truth.
"Eternal" and "impermanent" are just concepts. Neither of them are true. You don't have to understand eternity to see "the truth." But yet understanding eternity leads to some very high level truths. I don't talk about the logical conclusions of eternity because eternity is rule. I talk about it because in this reality eternity is a concept that seems to be necessary to understand the ultimate truth of no-truth.
Concepts are illusory. That doesn't mean they're not "real" per se, it's just that no one concept is any more real than any other concept. "real" or "not real" are concepts. To say that either are true is wrong.
What does freedom mean? Once you are free, are you bound to be free? Are you stuck in freedom? No. That would be just another imprisonment. You are free to have whatever truth you desire. None of them are true anyways.
we should stop making posts or else we'll start putting some karma on the grill i dont want to be a ninny but i am just sayin journey you have done some hard zazen and have benefited yourself and others there is still much more to be done for all of us whatever we think about journey's experience today's insights are tomorrow's platitudes rest and be happy or die trying may all sentient beings be lazy
I want to help you all see so much. Perhaps this is my downfall. But to continue the onslaught of posts and ideas being thrown at you. My eyes are open. Why are my eyes open? Because I realize they always have been.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
The way you could help, is not through words, it is through actions. Don't say. Be. Don't insist, or persist. Simply drop it and stop straining. The more you try, the less you succeed. I's just shut up and meditate for a while, and calm things down. You need to chill.
Why? You think that we have to give up words? Fine, then give up words. That is your truth. My truth is that I enjoy helping people see through my words, though they have no ultimate meaning.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
if you were helping people that would be fine. All I see here is dispute and argument. You're not helping, because your ego wants to be right, wants to be heard and wants to be listened to. if your words have no meaning, quit saying them.
True. But there is a point where you understand that there is nothing to hold on to. It seems that the people who are evolved enough to be into a religion such as buddhism has vastly wrong ideas about enlightenment and certain other things. Idk how many, but it seems to me most buddhists cling to buddhism. They are delusioned in buddhism. They're probably quite evolved to understand buddhism, but yet they are far from the truth because they're still convinced that there is a truth.
We tend to try to use unenlightened means to find "truth", or enlightenment. That's like saying circles aren't round.
Over the holiday, I came to a couple moments of clarity. During this, I saw that this practice can only remove delusion and unenlightened elements. I also saw that it cannot point you to reality, as reality is already here. We cannot fully experience reality because we only have 5 senses. Surrendering to this fact is actually understanding reality better.
Enlightenment is ongoing. It was never a destination.
You should go and demonstrate your enlightenment to an accomplished, wise teacher, and see what they say. Zen teachers give "dharma transmission" to those who have awakened and give them the title of "Zen Master". If you truly have attained enlightenment you should be able to become one no problem. With official dharma transmission and the spiritual authority if confers, you would be met with much less skepticism and would be able to give much greater help to people.
That's true. I just...idk. I don't want people to think of me as a buddhist. Although buddhism helps many people, it is not my path. And I don't see how I can teach anything other than my path.
Basically, there is "seeing" and then there is "understanding." These unbelievable moments of clarity you experience? These are moments of "seeing." Once you see, it is your job(by choice, of course) to understand.
*edit* We think that life is about living in some reality. Really we are that reality. We are here to learn about ourselves and enjoy what is. It isn't until later that we find out that "ourselves" is really all that exists. We think that we have to merge with the ultimate. Really we are the ultimate.
You could be like Adyashanti. He practiced under a Zen teacher for many years and now he is a teacher himself but he does not call or consider himself a "Buddhist" and does not refer to his teachings as "Buddhist" even though they are. You should have your experience verified by a teacher somehow. That would be most beneficial.
That would be amazing. And would also make me quite happy. To sort of put a stamp on it or something. idk. Of course, that's just my ego, but I can't escape ego so I must just try to be happy.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
"Try" to be happy? Just - BE happy!
Happy or not be happy - it really shouldn't matter to you, either way....
See, this is what feeds my doubt about the situation, TJ. Please don't think I'm being deliberately obtuse or argumentative. I think you very probably had an important transformation in your way of thinking, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it enlightenment....
I'm mobile and the more comments feature is rendering this Sisyphean thread impossible to read so I haven't read the newest object of discussion. Sorry to backtrack.
I think with the car talk its important to break it down further, that every individual piece is not only conditioned by other things who themselves are conditioned but also that the mere concept, as expressed by the word car, is conditioned by your mind. The importance of this analysis isn't about whether one ought or ought not meet a moving vehicle but rather about the implications of the nature of mind. To what extent does the mind condition things with impossible conceptualizations? Allegedly infinitely says the Buddha. One need look no further than the opening lines of the Dhammapada: "All experience is preceded by mind, Led by mind, Made by mind." Did you think that a holographic universe was being projected by a cosmic consciousness or better that people simply grasp onto conceptualizations that are impossible ways of existing? Perhaps those having trouble with wrapping their egos around the example of the car ought to try wrapping the example of the car around their egos. Step one: What does your mind and a car have in common? We'll deal with reality later.
Your mind and the car are the same. This non-truth that is the truth makes ALL TRUTHS real. But since all truths are real, none of them are ultimately real.
The mind and the car don't ultimately exist, correct. This doesn't make them the same unless reality is not ultimately objective, that it's a nondual projection of the mind; but dammit, reality comes afterwards. Don't seek a synthesis when you don't fully understand emptiness. And I'm not intending to condescend, as you may have seen my last thread paralleled this one at a point as CW pointed out.
This is just a word. It's just a concept. It's just a subjective truth.
Non-conceptuality is also a subjective truth. Why?
Because it is dependent upon volition. A skilled practitioner can CHOOSE to make the mind non-conceptual or to engage in conceptual thought & speech.
Whereas objective truth is not related to voilition. Objective truth is the inherent characteristics of phenomena and reality.
Objective truth is vipassana, seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena, namely, conditionality, impermanence, unsatisfactoriness & non-self.
When seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena occurs, dispassion occurs and craving ends.
Dispassion & the end of craving are the fruits of enlightenment, that is, Nibbana.
When Nibbana occurs, the mind becomes one with the Buddha and the Dhamma.
But we were are manically posting on internet forums as the "next guru on the block", enlightenment has not happened yet.
Just spacing out in zombie mind.
Non-conceptuality is good. It is useful. But it is just beginners level.
Notions such as "eternity" and "unity" are not related to Buddhist enlightenment.
Buddhist enlightenment is seeing the chaos within the order rather than the order within the chaos.
The priority or salient aspect is seeing the chaos.
The Buddha ended all craving. The end of craving is peacefulness and a unity (for one's life span). But his "unity" is found by seeing the chaos (rather than by unifying the mind in "oneness" via concentration).
When the mind is saturated with seeing the chaos, it becomes dispassionate.
It understands all things, including "unity" and "eternity" are impermanent & worthless.
The mind is liberated via relinquishment (rather than via mental unity).
In Buddhism, the terms that indicate an enlightened mind are those such as "dispassion" (viraga), "end of craving" (nirodha) and "relinquishment" (vossaga).
Ultimately happiness is just a word. It is illusory. However, because of the ego you feel.
Ultimately, happiness is a feeling rather than a word.
Ultimately, the ego is a word or thought rather than a feeling.
Feeling is felt. Ego is fabricated.
The ego is not felt. Feeling is not fabricated.
Feeling is felt compared to what? Even if you remove verbal cognition from sensations the mere sensory perception itself is subject to emptiness. As a product of the aggregates it is a product of dependant origination which is another way of expressing the noble truths which equates the feelings being felt to mere dukkha.
This is just a word. It's just a concept. It's just a subjective truth.
Non-conceptuality is also a subjective truth. Why?
Because it is dependent upon volition. A skilled practitioner can CHOOSE to make the mind non-conceptual or to engage in conceptual thought & speech.
Whereas objective truth is not related to voilition. Objective truth is the inherent characteristics of phenomena and reality.
Objective truth is vipassana, seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena, namely, conditionality, impermanence, unsatisfactoriness & non-self.
When seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena occurs, dispassion occurs and craving ends.
Dispassion & the end of craving are the fruits of enlightenment, that is, Nibbana.
When Nibbana occurs, the mind becomes one with the Buddha and the Dhamma.
But we were are manically posting on internet forums as the "next guru on the block", enlightenment has not happened yet.
Just spacing out in zombie mind.
Non-conceptuality is good. It is useful. But it is just beginners level.
Notions such as "eternity" and "unity" are not related to Buddhist enlightenment.
Buddhist enlightenment is seeing the chaos within the order rather than the order within the chaos.
The priority or salient aspect is seeing the chaos.
The Buddha ended all craving. The end of craving is peacefulness and a unity (for one's life span). But his "unity" is found by seeing the chaos (rather than by unifying the mind in "oneness" via concentration).
When the mind is saturated with seeing the chaos, it becomes dispassionate.
It understands all things, including "unity" and "eternity" are impermanent & worthless.
The mind is liberated via relinquishment (rather than via mental unity).
In Buddhism, the terms that indicate an enlightened mind are those such as "dispassion" (viraga), "end of craving" (nirodha) and "relinquishment" (vossaga).
All the best
I like this.
Enlightenment is like finding the point in a circle.
TJ, I offer one note of caution. Don't get attached to being one-who-helps-others. This is a potential stumbling block for all of us. I mean, one can get wrapped up in one's self-image as a helper-of-others. That's an attachment, as compared to spontaneously offering a hand when one is needed.
You need to get a good 8 hrs.(or more, at this point) of sleep, to process your insights. The subconscious is hard at work, processing and filing ideas away in our mental filing cabinet as we sleep. Take care.
Some of you are right. I have realized that people just aren't ready for it. Well, some of you are, but most of you aren't. I no longer have a desire to teach you. I am just going to live my life. I can't make you see. If you want my help i'm here, but that's about it. That doesn't mean i'm going to stop posting, but I honestly don't care anymore. It's about hopeless. These expectations that people are going to see are disappointing me when everyone is so blind. Including myself. I just know that i'm blind.
Don't listen to me. I have decided that people just don't want to hear what I have to say. I have nothing to offer. If you like what I have to say then let me know. But don't listen to me, for I have nothing to offer that you don't have to offer to yourself.
You're wrong, you know. People listen just fine, some even want to. If you expect any minds to understand without the conditions first being right, you don't understand.
Feeling is felt compared to what? Even if you remove verbal cognition from sensations the mere sensory perception itself is subject to emptiness. As a product of the aggregates it is a product of dependant origination which is another way of expressing the noble truths which equates the feelings being felt to mere dukkha.
"Verbal cognition"? What does that mean? Cognition in Buddhism is consciousness or mere awareness. Verbal is speech. How can the faculty of speech cognise?
Perception means to label or classify. The feeling of pain occurs, regardless of whether or not it is labelled. Feelings of pleasure occur, regardless of their being labelled. If we taste sugar, it tastes sweet. The feeling of pleasure or sweetness occurs, regardless of the labelling. The same with pain. If we break our arm or leg, the pain occurs, regardless of the labelling.
Or if the mind is absorbed in meditation, rapture & happiness arise. These feelings are unrelated to labelling or perception.
Like this year, I was taken to hospital for acute food poisoning. For a time, my blood pressure became high. The acute bodily pain and bodily reactions have little to do with perception or labelling.
What does "subject to emptiness" mean? Feelings of pleasure & pain arise. They are felt by the nervous system. These feeings are empty of 'self' and the nervous system or mind is empty of 'self' but the feelings are still felt by the mind.
"Feelings felt are dukkha"? What does this mean? All of the discources state feeling without craving is the cessation of dukkha.
The Buddha described two kinds of Nibbana. Nibbana is the absence of dukkha. One kind of Nibbana is when pleasant & unpleasant feelings are still experienced.
someone please delete this thread. I am not enlightened. Not any more than any of you are. I thought I could be of service by trying to show my truth. Apparently not. My truth is my truth. I am truly happy with it. That is all that matters. That is all I want for you, is to be happy. Whatever that means for you, I am not defining happiness. It's funny how having to play defense when all i'm saying is that I know no more than you can wear you down. I love helping people see. But people can only see what they want to see, and whatever it is that they see is their truth. I can't make them see my truth. So I give up on trying. I will still post on these forums probably. I just ask that this thread be deleted. Nothing to see here. I want to fade into the obscurity that we all share.
Some of you are right. I have realized that people just aren't ready for it. Well, some of you are, but most of you aren't. I no longer have a desire to teach you. I am just going to live my life. I can't make you see. If you want my help i'm here, but that's about it. That doesn't mean i'm going to stop posting, but I honestly don't care anymore. It's about hopeless. These expectations that people are going to see are disappointing me when everyone is so blind. Including myself. I just know that i'm blind.
Sounds like your attached to the outcome of your "helping", TJ. Thus, you're experiencing suffering now.
someone please delete this thread. I am not enlightened. .
Cute, TJ.
you got all excited and wound up, and then you crashed. That's all. Get some sleep. See you in the morning.
And FYI, one of the admins just "sank" your thread, so it doesn't pop up to the top anymore when there are new posts. So it'll probably die a natural death, no need to delete it. It'll fade into obscurity on it's own, if that's comforting to you. It was quite a ride while it lasted!
Comments
in my truth there are two awakenings. First is an awakening where you finally get receptive to the truth. Not that you weren't perceptive before, but you were stuck in lower levels. Once you have your first awakening you will learn at an incredible rate. Or at least I did. And then you will attain the ultimate awakening. Liberation. Freedom.
*edit* It is important to understand that you are already free. That is one of the most subtle truths. You are free. This is not a metaphor. You are liberated. Does spiritual seeking give you a headache, and you prefer to play video games? You're free to do that. You are exactly where you should be. You know how I know this? Because you chose it. You have the choice. You've always had the choice.
The Buddha told me or us nothing.He lived, he died, his teachings somehow reached us intact and extended.
>>>It's one of the big themes of buddhism that it's indescribable.
I disagree. It is hardly a theme at all. Many people become enlightened in the scriptures and when they are there, like the Buddha, they just continue with their life. At peace, with clarity and in truth.
>>>Enlightenment can only be experienced, not talked about.
But this is true of most rich human experinces, like love and rollercoasters. I think it may be a mistake to transpose this simple fact about the internal nature of experience into some mystical/unobtainable truth about enlightenment.
I cant know what it is like to be a bat unless I am a bat. I cant know what it is like to be enlightened unless I am enlightened.
>>>>If you don't believe me, that's great.
Such statements come over as insincere, which is wrong speach.
>>>>There's no truth to cling to.
In my understanding of dharma there are no truths to cling to, there are just the dharmic truths that stand immutable and upon which we can stand and, when ready, walk the path.
>>>I'm only here to help, if you don't like what I have to say then don't listen to me
As another said above, this is a discussion forum, it is also a community in senses.
namaste
Also there is an important question to ask. What is this "reality" that we desire so much? Is it various times and places? Or is it a moment? If it's various times and places then what i'm telling you is the highest truth there is. If it is a moment than i'm simply telling you about a moment i'm experiencing. It's the highest moment that has been reached at this point in time. Who knows whether i'm the only one or not. It doesn't matter anyway.
Treacle and cream, anyone? Or an egg-over-easy?
That is a big "IF".
Moreover the conclusion doesn't follow from the premis, for a huge varierty of reasons.
>>>If you don't see that than you don't understand eternity.
Then I don't understand eternity (I didn't long before you told me so).
>>So what, we're all gonna be enlightened and then existence will just cease? There will be no such thing as an ego? Does that sound fun to you? Just droning through life, not caring about anything.
Ummmmm?
>>>>Enlightenment only has the meaning which you give it.
But you said above it has no meaning and can only be experienced?
>>>For me, I enjoy life too much to give up the ego.
I don't see the ego is something that has to be given up by some act of choice. Rather it is a pernicious illusion.
>>>I must learn to simply use the ego as I desire.
OK, but I dont see how this is to be considererd dharma. I would imagine the most mystical mountain monk and the hard core materialist Buddhist would agree with me on this?
>>>>None of the ego's thoughts are real.
The ego doesn't have thoughts, the ego is the illusionary product of thoughts. It is caused by perspective, surely if you understand anataman you see this?
>>>None of its desires are real. But yet I will still follow some of them. Why? Because I want to. I can create my own reality. It can be whatever I want.
I am lost in what you say here.
>>>We all have this power. We just have to see it. Thinking that you have to fade away into losing the ego entirely is delusional.
Still lost.
>>>Then again all things are delusional. I'm here because I want to be.
Hello? Hello?
>>>I suggest you go where you want to go as well.
I am still lost, but it sounds like you are telling me to "get lost":p
"Hey, go duk(ka) yourself!"
Whoooop!
What does freedom mean? Once you are free, are you bound to be free? Are you stuck in freedom? No. That would be just another imprisonment. You are free to have whatever truth you desire. None of them are true anyways.
i dont want to be a ninny but i am just sayin
journey you have done some hard zazen and have benefited yourself and others
there is still much more to be done for all of us whatever we think about journey's experience
today's insights are tomorrow's platitudes
rest and be happy
or die trying
may all sentient beings be lazy
Don't say. Be.
Don't insist, or persist.
Simply drop it and stop straining.
The more you try, the less you succeed.
I's just shut up and meditate for a while, and calm things down.
You need to chill.
You're not helping, because your ego wants to be right, wants to be heard and wants to be listened to.
if your words have no meaning, quit saying them.
Cheers, WK
Over the holiday, I came to a couple moments of clarity. During this, I saw that this practice can only remove delusion and unenlightened elements. I also saw that it cannot point you to reality, as reality is already here. We cannot fully experience reality because we only have 5 senses. Surrendering to this fact is actually understanding reality better.
Enlightenment is ongoing. It was never a destination.
*edit* We think that life is about living in some reality. Really we are that reality. We are here to learn about ourselves and enjoy what is. It isn't until later that we find out that "ourselves" is really all that exists. We think that we have to merge with the ultimate. Really we are the ultimate.
Just - BE happy!
Happy or not be happy - it really shouldn't matter to you, either way....
See, this is what feeds my doubt about the situation, TJ.
Please don't think I'm being deliberately obtuse or argumentative.
I think you very probably had an important transformation in your way of thinking, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it enlightenment....
I think with the car talk its important to break it down further, that every individual piece is not only conditioned by other things who themselves are conditioned but also that the mere concept, as expressed by the word car, is conditioned by your mind. The importance of this analysis isn't about whether one ought or ought not meet a moving vehicle but rather about the implications of the nature of mind. To what extent does the mind condition things with impossible conceptualizations? Allegedly infinitely says the Buddha. One need look no further than the opening lines of the Dhammapada: "All experience is preceded by mind, Led by mind, Made by mind." Did you think that a holographic universe was being projected by a cosmic consciousness or better that people simply grasp onto conceptualizations that are impossible ways of existing? Perhaps those having trouble with wrapping their egos around the example of the car ought to try wrapping the example of the car around their egos. Step one: What does your mind and a car have in common? We'll deal with reality later.
Because it is dependent upon volition. A skilled practitioner can CHOOSE to make the mind non-conceptual or to engage in conceptual thought & speech.
Whereas objective truth is not related to voilition. Objective truth is the inherent characteristics of phenomena and reality.
Objective truth is vipassana, seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena, namely, conditionality, impermanence, unsatisfactoriness & non-self.
When seeing clearly the characteristics of phenomena occurs, dispassion occurs and craving ends.
Dispassion & the end of craving are the fruits of enlightenment, that is, Nibbana.
When Nibbana occurs, the mind becomes one with the Buddha and the Dhamma.
But we were are manically posting on internet forums as the "next guru on the block", enlightenment has not happened yet.
Just spacing out in zombie mind.
Non-conceptuality is good. It is useful. But it is just beginners level.
Notions such as "eternity" and "unity" are not related to Buddhist enlightenment.
Buddhist enlightenment is seeing the chaos within the order rather than the order within the chaos.
The priority or salient aspect is seeing the chaos.
The Buddha ended all craving. The end of craving is peacefulness and a unity (for one's life span). But his "unity" is found by seeing the chaos (rather than by unifying the mind in "oneness" via concentration).
When the mind is saturated with seeing the chaos, it becomes dispassionate.
It understands all things, including "unity" and "eternity" are impermanent & worthless.
The mind is liberated via relinquishment (rather than via mental unity).
In Buddhism, the terms that indicate an enlightened mind are those such as "dispassion" (viraga), "end of craving" (nirodha) and "relinquishment" (vossaga).
All the best
Ultimately, the ego is a word or thought rather than a feeling.
Feeling is felt. Ego is fabricated.
The ego is not felt. Feeling is not fabricated.
Enlightenment is like finding the point in a circle.
You need to get a good 8 hrs.(or more, at this point) of sleep, to process your insights. The subconscious is hard at work, processing and filing ideas away in our mental filing cabinet as we sleep. Take care.
There is no self in selflessness.
Perception means to label or classify. The feeling of pain occurs, regardless of whether or not it is labelled. Feelings of pleasure occur, regardless of their being labelled. If we taste sugar, it tastes sweet. The feeling of pleasure or sweetness occurs, regardless of the labelling. The same with pain. If we break our arm or leg, the pain occurs, regardless of the labelling.
Or if the mind is absorbed in meditation, rapture & happiness arise. These feelings are unrelated to labelling or perception.
Like this year, I was taken to hospital for acute food poisoning. For a time, my blood pressure became high. The acute bodily pain and bodily reactions have little to do with perception or labelling.
What does "subject to emptiness" mean? Feelings of pleasure & pain arise. They are felt by the nervous system. These feeings are empty of 'self' and the nervous system or mind is empty of 'self' but the feelings are still felt by the mind.
"Feelings felt are dukkha"? What does this mean? All of the discources state feeling without craving is the cessation of dukkha.
The Buddha described two kinds of Nibbana. Nibbana is the absence of dukkha. One kind of Nibbana is when pleasant & unpleasant feelings are still experienced.
All the best
DD
I doubt many if any here, including myself, doubt your intentions.
Nor do we negate the meritoriousness of your actions.
Nor the benefit & joy of what you seek to impart.
At least I am merely debating you. That is all. Its a chat site, isn't it?
With metta
DD
you got all excited and wound up, and then you crashed. That's all. Get some sleep. See you in the morning.
And FYI, one of the admins just "sank" your thread, so it doesn't pop up to the top anymore when there are new posts. So it'll probably die a natural death, no need to delete it. It'll fade into obscurity on it's own, if that's comforting to you. It was quite a ride while it lasted!