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benevolence or kindness
aHappyNihilist
Veteran
A question that has interested me recently was the concept of WHY you should help others. I can't really find a reason that is not based in either causing happiness for the self or avoiding pain for the self. Note: i'm not passing any moral judgment on the idea that we do nothing with helping others as a true goal.
the reason is generally one of the following
1. it will give good karma - obviously this is a purely selfish reason
2. it will increase social status to be kind to others - again another selfish reason
3. once you cease to desire things that directly contribute to your self interest, the "good" will will remain alone and there is no reason to ignore it. - this one orbits around the avoidance of the pain that the natural urge toward moral action causes if gone unheeded.
to rephrase my question after the last few answers, why follow only this impulse? there are other impulses that are unpleasant to feel but buddhists generally take a pathway of resistance to these impulses. letting go of cravings, not acting on them, not sating their hunger, in this case a hunger to help others. Buddhists strengthen their desire for kindness, but this seems so inconsistent with the normal resisting of desires, the letting go of desires etc.
the reason is generally one of the following
1. it will give good karma - obviously this is a purely selfish reason
2. it will increase social status to be kind to others - again another selfish reason
3. once you cease to desire things that directly contribute to your self interest, the "good" will will remain alone and there is no reason to ignore it. - this one orbits around the avoidance of the pain that the natural urge toward moral action causes if gone unheeded.
to rephrase my question after the last few answers, why follow only this impulse? there are other impulses that are unpleasant to feel but buddhists generally take a pathway of resistance to these impulses. letting go of cravings, not acting on them, not sating their hunger, in this case a hunger to help others. Buddhists strengthen their desire for kindness, but this seems so inconsistent with the normal resisting of desires, the letting go of desires etc.
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but let me stress, i'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. i think it's great, when you are presented with two options, both within your grasp, one enjoyable one painful of course you take the enjoyable one.
good night, ill check in when i wake up. christmas break is great.
To learn, to cultivate compassion is to understand that not only is it natural to help others but in so doing we take focus off of the "self" and become an integral part of the larger picture, where we're all the same. It's like our parents telling us that we'll want a good education -- we don't understand when we're younger, but isn't this right regardless of our non-understanding?
Loving-kindness (metta) is benevolence toward all sentient beings, without discrimination or selfish attachment. But this is easier said than done, it will take many years' of practice, and sometimes, maybe for ever, to practice with zero discrimination. In the practice of this "divine abiding", most of us will be inclined to, for example, gravitate towards our loved ones. Maybe we can include some gentle and neutral people as well. And even animals. Are we now in a position to show zero discrimination towards a vile and violent person, say a serial killer? That is, love this killer as much as a mother loves her only child? That will depend on how far we have progressed on the buddhist path.
But this does not mean that we should doubt the importance of the loving-kindness practice. We should try to practice it without selfish attachment, that is, for the happiness of other people and creatures. Just keep at it....
Metta practice plays a significant role in overcoming our anger, ill-will and hatred; all of which are hindrances to our meditation practice. We see benefits quite early, even if we are far from being 100% altruistic in our practice. It's a gradual practice.
Having said all this, I take the point you are making that we, ourselves, stand to benefit the most from the practice of metta. This is true of the whole Buddhist practice. Our practice of the Dharma is intended to change us to see the world differently ("as it really is"), it not intended for us to go changing the world around us. Buddhism has been around for more than 2500 years, it has changed the lives of many who practiced it, but the world remains the same with all the samsaric characteristics.
In practicing loving-kindness, the greatest gift is naturally to make the Dharma available to anyone who thirsts for freedom from dukkha and who seeks your assistance.
Sorry for this somewhat long-winded response.
How do other individually weak species survive? They cooperate. Cooperation entails helping out each other without receiving a reward immediately.
Think of other social beings (bees, ants, wolves, lions, monkeys, apes etc.) - they are all subject to a quick demise if left on their own - even in their natural habitats.
Humans, having developed immediate self-gratification (through hormone release in the brain) from helping others, are especially suited to the social life.
You will also see humans go crazy if left alone for extended periods of time, and so will our close relatives, the primates.
But, like all living beings, humans are prone to fighting over resources which seems (or are) scarce.
Having developed in small family-centered groups, humans can also have a difficulty relating to complete strangers - they can be a threat. The survivalist answer to a possible threat is 1) avoid, 2) flee/fight.
Seeing the human animal in the light of it's long prehistory and development will help a great deal in explaining how humans are prone to racism, infighting, mental illnesses, arrogance, selfishness - but also empathy, helpfulness, tolerance and positive energy..
Doing that it's easy to realize that we are all the same, and we are all just the product of circumstances over which we have little power. When the woman in the bus scolds you for no apparent reason, it's not because she's born a real bitch - she's stressed from some kind of stimulus and doesn't know how to deal with it skillfully.
most people are settling on what i originally wrote as the third reason but then that always begs the question for me,
why do we avoid certain innate drives but follow others? is it just because we would like others to follow the innate drives that benefit us? is it because of the good karma attached to certain innate drives? is it because we will make a bunch of buddhist friends if we follow the correct innate drive? is it so that we learn to let go of the concept of self, is kindness just a method of self teaching?
again i want to stress that these aren't necessarily bad things.
Point 3 is certainly true as pointed out, but I think 1 is also true. I don't think it is selfish, though. Why do you thing it is so obviously selfish? Maybe you have a wrong view on karma. It doesn't mean when you help someone that you'll later get a sports car, a bigger house or any personal gain like that.
Karma will usually show itself in a more direct way. It means when you help someone without wanting anything in return (doing it out of loving kindness) it makes you happier. There is nothing selfish about that. When we practice loving kindness in meditation, we want ALL beings to be happy. And that includes ourself. May I be happy and peaceful. Honestly, what's wrong with wishing that for yourself? I think it is beautiful.
But it all comes down to the intention with which you do things. If you think "I'm unhappy, I'll give this homeless guy 10 dollars, then I'll finally be happy", it probably won't work, because it is not done out of loving kindness towards the guy. It's the intention that counts.
I find it a bit hard to explain. You'll have to experience it to understand it I guess.
Or don't you experience it that way?
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At the risk of sounding whimsical or cruel, I would say that any such concept is bound to backfire in the long run. Yes, we do practice kindness in the sense of altruism. But the object is not to be gooder-than-good, win a halo to go with our recently-acquired, Buddhist, serenity suits or any similar Boy Scout endeavor.
Yes, we practice kindness as altruism ... as practice.
Yes, we practice kindness as egotism ... as practice.
But in the end we practice kindness because our enlightenment requires it and in that enlightenment any notion of self or other (same stuff, different day) simply does not apply.
Kindness, like enlightenment, is simply what works.
Doesn't mean Buddhists do nothing all day (well, sometimes in the weekends it comes close
I try not to get to personal because I'm not really trained or experienced in those things, but I get the feeling you're trying to grasp the entire view of Buddhism in one go. If that's true or if it is not, it will probably not work. Try to do one thing at a time, and add things when you are ready (they will come naturally). You don't need to understand it all. Buddhism is not so much a philosofy, it's more a kind of lifestyle. Or at least, that's how I see it and it works for me.
You can also disagree with me if you feel my view is wrong, that's ok. Being critical is also a part of Buddhism; a very important part even. But whatever you do, try not to get too focussed on getting the answer to everything. Also in Buddhism there is no fixed formula for happiness because everybody is different.
Wish you well,
Sabre
but once I understand that i ask myself, why follow only this impulse? there are other impulses that are unpleasant but buddhists generally take a pathway of resistance to these impulses. letting go of cravings, not acting on them.
Sometimes humans are stressed or their setup doesn't match the world and they do bad things. The surrounding humans will try to correct the behavior through different sanctions - mostly exclusion, fining or isolation.
It's not such a mystery that humans would wanna do good and avoid bad.
If you're looking for an eternal rule which tells you morally "why", you have to turn to Christianity or some other God-religion.
The real world has no eternal rules except the rules of nature, and a lot of philosophers have addressed that problem.
Camus said: "Mankind must voluntarily choose absurdity" (free from my memory), "the absurd" being the contradictions life brings us and thus life itself, voluntarily because Camus saw death as a not-choice.
Dostoyevsky said: "If God doesn't exist, everything is permitted", which is true - God doesn't exist and everything is permitted. We just don't like to do whatever bad thing - it's simply naturally so, because it would eradicate human life if it was any different.
So you could say there is no "why" as in "thou shalt", but there are very good explanations and reasons anyway..
The reason why Buddhists follow some impulses and not others is because some impulses alleviate suffering (helping others, etc.) and other impulses cause suffering (craving for temporary sense pleasure, etc.) It makes sense to follow the ones that alleviate it and not to follow the ones that cause it.