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The afterlife & Suicide in buddhism
So as I return so does my questions.
You see my wife is a Christian and a good person. I sometimes wonder if she knows how good of a Buddhist she would make. She is the most unselfish person i know and shines only love and compassion.
I am curious... You see in Christianity once you die, you will be reunited with your loved ones in heaven. Now this is nice, that the people you love, you will be reunited with and will see again. Yet I find Buddhism scary when it comes to this. So let us say there is a afterlife, I will not be with my loved ones, I will never seemy children and wife again, and if i do hold some of my memories I will live a second life of knowing I am without my dearest loved ones. How do you think/feel about this?
Also if we have no memory of "this" life, then how is suicide not a solution if you are not enjoying this life? If you do hurt your loved ones by doing it, will it matter? you wont remember it anyway, and when they pass away it wont mean anything to them?
Thoughts and advice are welcome
You see my wife is a Christian and a good person. I sometimes wonder if she knows how good of a Buddhist she would make. She is the most unselfish person i know and shines only love and compassion.
I am curious... You see in Christianity once you die, you will be reunited with your loved ones in heaven. Now this is nice, that the people you love, you will be reunited with and will see again. Yet I find Buddhism scary when it comes to this. So let us say there is a afterlife, I will not be with my loved ones, I will never seemy children and wife again, and if i do hold some of my memories I will live a second life of knowing I am without my dearest loved ones. How do you think/feel about this?
Also if we have no memory of "this" life, then how is suicide not a solution if you are not enjoying this life? If you do hurt your loved ones by doing it, will it matter? you wont remember it anyway, and when they pass away it wont mean anything to them?
Thoughts and advice are welcome
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Comments
It's not about whether you remember it. It's about how it affects others. You can't experience death, only your loved ones can experience your death. So, suicide, in my opinion, generally speaking, (insert other disclaimers here), is the ultimate act of selfishness.
Suicide can be a solution in really extreme cases. Well, if you do hurt your loved ones, and you are already dead, then it won't matter to you.Your existence alongside your loved ones has ended. Yep, when they pass away it won't mean anything.
I know...it might sound stupid...what I've written above...
also suicide is never a solution. I can't imagine what situation it would save you from. only in a mind full of aversion would you come to the conclusion that suicide is ever a solution. pain is pain, exist deeper than it.
As for suicide, it isn't seen as a skillful action, and is strongly discouraged for those who aren't free from greed, hatred and delusion because it won't end suffering. One moment of consciousness conditions the arising of next (rebirth), just as one action conditions the quality of feeling a moment of consciousness cognizes (kamma); and if one accepts the teachings on rebirth, this process doesn't ceases at death if there's still craving (tahna) present in the mind. Hence the Buddha's statement, "If someone gives up this body and seizes another, I say it is a fault" (MN 144).
Im very confused of why Buddhist would follow the teachings of a faith which basically says after death there is nothing. Makes the whole journey...somewhat...pointless.
Am I making sense?
So yeah, I'd rather spend the little time I have here in peace than stress. What's the point then? Peace, calm, joy, happiness, whatever you want to call it, I suppose.
Another aspect of Buddhist training is that we learn over time that Buddhism is not just another intellectual or emotional construct over which we have some imagined control. When the intellect or emotions hear that they might no longer be in control, well, they hit the panic button: If I am not in control, I would be out of control ... and maybe I would just turn into some raving maniac. But this is just the intellectual or emotional imagining of someone who has yet to practice Buddhism for very long. Sure, it can SOUND spooky, but is life really all that spooky? So we keep practicing and, a little at a time, we find out -- find out instead of imagining some heaven or hell.
Of course you love your family. Good. Love your family -- that's part of your practice. Equally true is the fact that you and I will die. Does love disappear simply because you or I die? If the answer is "yes," what sort of love might that be? It's just something to consider. Consider, not run away from.
Your Christian wife is a good person. It's interesting to notice this ... and consider the very important lesson it contains. People's decency and kindness have bupkus to do with whether they are Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu or Jew. Decency and kindness predates and outlasts all belief systems of whatever sort. For this reason, you can believe any damned thing you want and still find a fruitful practice in Buddhism. Criminals practice Buddhism. So do saints. So do homosexuals and heterosexuals. So do brown people and pink people. So do garbage men and stock brokers. Buddhism is for our deepest questions and provides the deepest answers. The froth -- the stuff we usually croon about so soulfully -- is not the entire story by a long shot.
Sorry ... got off on a bit of a toot there.
All best wishes.
genkaku, never apologize for ramblings...I welcome them..and respect the,
Your assumptions are all backwards. Saying that the only purpose of life is to provide souls for heaven or hell is to say life is pointless. We don't want to be separated from our loved ones by death, because of the pain involved with missing them, so we long for some reunion. It's comforting. And after the reunion, what? Do you sit around and stare at each other for eternity? Do you pass the time singing praises to God? You really want to spend eternity in church? Either it won't be you in Heaven, or eventually the eternal sameness will become torture. Take a vacation where you don't do anything but sit and stare at the weather and see how quickly it drives you crazy!
If you really think about what eternity means, and who you are in this life, and what it means to live, you'd know that it is the ever changing and transient nature of life that gives it meaning. Living IS the point. Cherish and love your loved ones today because you can only do that today.
Hope that helps.
a) Suicide does not end suffering. Personal suffering, which is only based on "wrong thought", perhaps, but there's an entire world of humans out there. In fact suicide can negatively impact the lives of those who know you, increasing their suffering (which may be passed on to others).
b) Because suffering still exists in human society, any "rebirth" into that society will necessarily entail suffering! What we do now does affect future conditions, regardless of how we choose to think of rebirth.
If you know selfless rebirth, you look to the whole and not yourself. If still looking to yourself, this means Anatta has not been fully penetrated. Either way, both points above hold true; suicide is not a skillful action that has no unwholesome results. Simply thinking this is your only life is not reason for suicide either; there are many atheists who think this way who still find life fulfilling.
My two cents.
Namaste
The thing that matters in buddhism is to end personal suffering, not what happens after death.
The only thing i would want from them would be a feeling of unconditional love and acceptance. Lots of hugs and kisses and kindness would be all I need or want.
When I can get that all-encompassing feeling of love and acceptance from "anybody" in the afterlife, why would I need my kids or my wife or siblings?
Would I need them just to tell stories of the good old days? Reminiscences in this world only serve to generate feelings of warmth love and togetherness. What if I already have and/or automatically get all that warmth love and acceptance in the "afterlife."
Why would I need to have those familiar egos and personalities of close family members around me who have shared experiences? Because: The shared experiences are the agency by which those feelings of love and togetherness come about in THIS world?! That's why!
The presence of close family members is not necessary [in the next world] when we are unburdened with "separation" caused by the ego as is the case with our current lives here and now.
See? Sounds callous at first but it really isn't. There is no need to see specific individual (ego-identifiable?) loved ones when you are surrounded by love! LOL
Maybe having a wife and kids and parents and siblings is merely a diluted inefficient way to feel love in this world! Yes, it is great and necessary and, indeed, the point of living in this world. It's also probably a mere approximation of what is there for "us"and has always been there for us __after__ this world!!
Also, suicide is anathema because of the suffering it causes the people who "survive" you. Forget suicide as an option: it stinks. Unless you are clearly terminally ill and pain medication doesn't help, or some other unusual situation: forget about it.
Oh! I had waaaay too much coffee this morning. Sorry of this sounds abrupt.