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Conversion to buddhism

lightlotuslightlotus
edited January 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Hi,

I need some advice - I had a pretty rough past few years (2008 to 2010) and it was a mixture of issues which was getting me down. I started yoga and then meditation to help control my stress levels and then felt the full benefits of meditation. I very quickly found a calm with buddhism and a massive health benefit too. I want to convert to buddhism (i have posted this on other forums and got a mixed reply) can a person seek refuge in the three jewels (Buddha. Dharma and Sangha) and be viewed as a buddhist?

Is there an official process to conversion?

LL

Comments

  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    Have you filled out form DP.023.B and had it signed by at least two mystical sages?

    :p

    My advice. Read lots of suttras, read lots of commentaries, try to doubt them all. Talk to Buddhists, think about it all and most importantly, understand and practice the four noble truths on all their levels:)

    Good luck!


  • SpockSpock
    For there to be an official process, then there needs to be officialdom.

    I am a Buddhist but I feel that I do not need official approval from one order or another. You may wish to become ordained into an order but that is quite a long process. In my eyes, being a lay Buddhist is being no less of a Buddhist than Buddha himself.
  • kilroydavekkilroydavek
    Hello Spock,
    It is certainly an accepted fact among most well informed Buddhists that Taking Refuge can be done on ones own if the intention is pure and you are sincere about following the Buddha. See this link.

    http://www.cloudwater.org/index.php/about-buddhism-2/taking-refuge
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Just trust your experience. Your karma will lead you. Don't feel anxious that something bad will happen if you are not officially refuged. Your heart is as it is.

    When you come to a sangha, by events and karma, then you will have an opportunity to refuge. You should receive and understand teachings what refuge means before doing that. A journey and the path is the destination.

    Note: I have not taken refuge yet and I am just speaking from my guesses and own approach. If you cannot find a sangha sometimes you can contact a teacher by e-mail. Good luck.
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    Hi

    thinks for all the replies back. Jeffery I absolutly agree with you - I sort of feel a calling to buddhism. I cant explain it (sounds odd - I know but I hit rock bottom and just started googling about buddhism!) I first read about the four noble truths and I was just intrigued and things just stopped being so bad.

    I basically got to the point where I could see myself get to the point of breakdown and it was all due to the fact I had close relative die and then I was pretty sick for a long period of time [which failed to be correctly treated for 2 years]. Once I became curious about the religion I was born into and started researching that I started to question everything and never found answers but a lot of conditions place on me.
    I just felt a calling to Buddhism and no other religion. Im totally hooked into the principles of buddhism and meditation and yoga - im just seeing a massive change in me.

    Im just curious to know if buddhism places restrictions on women as thats where my questioning came into with my former religion. Is buddhism truly universal to both men and women?

    thanks

    LL
  • DeformedDeformed Veteran
    There are no restrictions on your practice. There are no commandments either.

    When we say "Buddhism", we are using a highly abstracted word that can hardly reflect all schools and cultural influences in its 2500 year history. But in short, any type of cultural or gender identity (among other identities) are actually fictional, in that they only exist in our perceptions of reality, and as such the teachings include not clinging to these notions of identity.

    But the practice reveals these things, not words and teachings.

    Best of luck to you!
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    edited January 2011
    hi Deformed,

    thanks - there is just so many things that have me hooked that in all honesty I went through so much stress that it lead me to question everything and I have found a lot of answers in Buddhism.

    take care

    LL
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Buddhists are human too and sometimes they are sexist. But the teachings of buddhism say that they should view this as their problem rather than a problem with you. If they don't like cheese they view that as having to do with them rather than cheese. Kind of a course comparison to make a point. With cheese this doesn't mean much other than freeing them from aversion to the point of suffering. With people it allows them to be compassionate (try) to other sex even if they are accultured another way.
  • twillytwilly
    Hi

    Im just curious to know if buddhism places restrictions on women as thats where my questioning came into with my former religion. Is buddhism truly universal to both men and women?

    thanks

    LL
    Only if you want to enter a monastery. In Buddha's time it was possible for women and men to receive the same ordination. This is no longer possible. (But women can still enter monasteries.) I've read it's because the strain of Buddhism which ordained women monastic died out. Doesn't make much sense to me.

  • lightlotuslightlotus
    edited January 2011
    Its not just about a male vs female thing. Im 29 and havent spent literally no time at all questioning any part of my heritage or the religion i was born into and it seems as thought i've been living in this bubble! So many things have happend in my life within say 3 years that i just saw negative things everywhere and people suffering - the point where i think the bubble i lived in popped was when my close friend was in a very bad car accident and she litterally had every bone in her body broken but the skull and spine! Then it was my uncle who had a severe stroke (he died after a 2 year rehab battle!) and then my out of control lung condition was when i had to do meditation for my sanity!

    I had a conversation with a religious aunt about all of this stuff going on in my life (in a hospital waiting room of all places) and she said God is testing us and i should learnt about the religion so i did...made me more frustrated as it is something i cant relate to - the times have changed and life is more complicated. Besides that it didnt address women and I dont understand why people had to suffer. See now that i have touched the tip of the iceberg of buddhist ideology im just intrigued at how it empowers people to take control of their lives and there is no divisions set!

    Now that I have finally questioned every aspect of my lifestyle it was all wrong - life isnt about that.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    In the west in buddhist communities there tends to be less sexism. I would imagine. In my sangha in england its mostly the liberal sort of people in the sangha or at least gentle kind people. I don't know about other cultures/sanghas/parts of the country/globe.
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    twilly,

    being ordained seems so devoted and far out there - cool! But really not for me. I feel a trip a book shop coming on though.

    LL
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    In the west in buddhist communities there tends to be less sexism. I would imagine. In my sangha in england its mostly the liberal sort of people in the sangha or at least gentle kind people. I don't know about other cultures/sanghas/parts of the country/globe.
    good to hear that:) Im not a crazed feminist or anything just well and truly intrigued.
  • sukhitasukhita
    @lightlotus
    You can take refuge online here if you feel like it. :)



  • lightlotuslightlotus
    cool thanks - i've been searching for stuff online all day. thanks for link.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    lightlotus, I will simply tell you how it is with me.
    I decided to commit myself to Buddhism, and make it my calling, many years ago. I created my own personal little ceremony, with significance to me, and conducted it on my own, privately, at home, when I was alone. This was by no means to be secretive. it was to enable me to be able to devote the time, and be focussed.
    In 2008, I went to my local temple, and "officially" took refuge in a public celebratory ceremony, on Vesak, in May.
    I had, before then, been a practising Roman Catholic, and had made a gradual, yet irreversible transition from Christian, to doubter, Agnostic and then Buddhist, over around 5 years. Maybe more. Or even, less. I forget.
    It matters not.
    the point is, you conduct something meaningful to you, and which resonates and has significance.

    With regard to prejudice against women, well, yes, it does exist in some quarters, but it is generally mostly condemned, and not something which largely finds favour or is widespread.
    These things happen, but as was skilfully pointed out, it's not the cheese's fault if people don't like the cheese.... I like that analogy.
    Generally speaking, unless you are intending to become a nun and ordain, you will not find prejudice, separatism or segregation. And it is widely accepted that Enlightenment is genderless....
    All Religions have their glitches. The skill is to practice Mindfully and devote one's self to the path that makes us a better person.
    We look to ourselves and do the best we can.
  • luzianneluzianne
    Thank you for your post yours and others comments have been helpful. I was laid f off from my job in August of 2009 during this time I discovered Buddhism. Again thank you for your post.
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    edited January 2011
    I just realised i havent declared how brilliant this forum is!! [cool sangha!]

    thanks for your advice federica - I've been adding elements to my meditations so its my time to switch off and reflect. I feel like I have been given a calling too because i've sort of gone straight to buddhism and feel like ive been given that chance to start again!

    i would love to go through a refuge ceremony, what actually happens in one?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Basically you recite the Triple Gem, three times. You can do this in English, but you can also do it in Pali. Now, it took me a while to learn that, and I never thought I would, but I did, and it's not that difficult.

    THis is what you do: You recite the following, and then go through the Five precepts.
    I now do this morning and evening, and it takes just a couple of minutes....

    Taking Refuge:

    Buddham Saranam Gachami
    Dhammam Saranam Gachami
    Sangham Saranam Gachami

    Dutyam-pi Buddham Saranam Gachami
    Dutyam-pi Dhammam Saranam Gachami
    Dutyam-pi Sangham Saranam Gachami

    Tatyam-pi Buddham Saranam Gachami
    Tatyam-pi Dhammam Saranam Gachami
    Tatyam-pi Sangham Saranam Gachami

    This basically means,
    I go for Refuge in the Buddha,
    I go for Refuge in the Dhamma
    I go for refuge in the Sangha.

    For the second time, I go for Refuge in the Buddha/Dhamma/Sangha...

    For the third time I go for refuge in the Buddha/Dhamma/Sangha...

    The Five Precepts:

    I vow to train myself to:
    • Not hurt any Sentient being and do no Harm;
    • Not to take anything, which is not freely or willingly given;
    • Speak wholesomely and pleasantly
    • Not to indulge in improper sexual pleasures;
    • Not to consume intoxicating substances which confuse the mind and cloud the judgement.


  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2011
    As for the ceremony itself, you can do anything you find significant and meaningful for you.
    Even if you put a statue of the Buddha on a book, light a candle and some incense, and just sit, with your hands in a palm-to-palm position, at heart level....
    Up to you.
    Go with what feels right.
    Music, flowers, indoors, outdoors....all up to you. :)
  • TheJourneyTheJourney
    There's no need to be a buddhist unless you want to. Even if you want to, though, you don't have to go through any process. Some people just like to. But really man truths truth, no religion is the truth they are all just paths to the truth.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I have to say, if I had just been starting out as a Buddhist, I would find the above confusing, contradictory and off-putting. Coming from someone I would have assumed was Buddhist, on a Buddhist forum.....
    TJ - I'm sorry, I know you mean well, but this is not conducive to skilful action.
  • TheJourneyTheJourney
    Truth is truth. The buddha observed truth in the world. He didn't find truth in a religion.
  • buddhajunkiebuddhajunkie

    I don't know the details of your situation, but beware!

    There is good conversion and there is bad conversion:


    -Bad conversion creates, in your mind, greater distance between you and other people,including those people belonging to your former religion.

    -Bad conversion is done as an expression of aversion to something or someone, including your former religion or members of it.

    -Bad conversion is done as an expression of ill will to something or someone, including your former religion or members of it.

    -Bad conversion strengthens the notion of self.

    -Bad conversion is a substitute for practice.


    You seem to be on the right track, but I bring this up just because I frequently see people wanting to do the bad kind of conversion.
  • lightlotuslightlotus
    oh i saw a lot of bad conversion in my former religion and partially why i left it - no chance of that happening here thanks for the advice though...

    (wicked username btw!)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Truth is truth. The buddha observed truth in the world. He didn't find truth in a religion.
    Which is why he founded a sangha and had Monks and nuns.... The Buddha founded a movement with followers calling themselves Buddhists. People following his example and thus seeking the Truth for themselves. If people wish to adhere to that, it's simply rude to throw them a purler and effectively pull the rug from under their feet. It's called "raining on somebody's parade" and really, it's NOT SKILFUL.

  • TheJourneyTheJourney
    I said that there was no need to be a buddhist UNLESS YOU WANT TO. There's nothing wrong with being a buddhist. If there is a religion of the truth, buddhism would probably be it, alongside with taoism. I was just pointing out that ultimately buddhism isn't the truth, not that it's not a good path.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Well she obviously wants to - so what's your point?
    She wouldn't have posted a thread entitled 'conversion to Buddhism' otherwise, would she?


    That's exactly what I mean by unskilful comments. :rolleyes: :grumble:
  • TheJourneyTheJourney
    I'm just trying to make sure she has the right idea about what buddhism is. Sooo what's the problem with that?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No, you're not. Like I said, if I'd come across a comment like yours when I first examined the idea of following Buddhism, coming from someone I assumed was Buddhist, on a Buddhist forum, it might well have put me off the idea altogether and confused the heck out of me.
    You may well have a trumpet to blow, but you really need to pick the time to blow it, a bit better.
    The sound would then carry twice as far.
    Right now, it's unnecessarily strident.

    I'm done discussing this, I've made my point.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    I want to convert to buddhism (i have posted this on other forums and got a mixed reply) can a person seek refuge in the three jewels (Buddha. Dharma and Sangha) and be viewed as a buddhist?

    Is there an official process to conversion?
    As others have already pointed out, one can practice Buddhism without going through some ritual conversion; one just has to mainly focus on three things: (1) observing the precepts, (2) practicing meditation and (3) developing insight.

    If you're not satisfied with that, however, a lay-follower (or practitioner) is said to be one who's gone to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha for refuge [as guides], and is committed to the practice according to the Dhamma (AN 8.25). In short, being sincere in your practice makes one a Buddhist, and this in and of itself is an internal commitment.

    You can go through all the external motions if you want (i.e., going to a temple and formally taking refuge and receiving the precepts or doing it in front of a Buddha statue at home), but it's not a requirement.

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    Only if you want to enter a monastery. In Buddha's time it was possible for women and men to receive the same ordination. This is no longer possible.
    Actually, this is once again becoming a possibility (e.g., Dhammadharini, Dhammasara, etc.)
  • Rmurray1985Rmurray1985
    It's also not uncommon for people to take refuge several times in their life...

    So far, I haven't taken refuge before a lama or anything yet. But, I take refuge every day at least 6 times (3 in the morning, 3 at night).
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