Troubles accepting another religion

Diasent

I would like to first of all say that I'm not a buddhist, I follow the Shintoist path. I've decided a long time ago that I did not want to find god, but to protect others in the after-life. To the point: I live in Utah, a prominently LDS community. I must start off with when I first moved here, I met my first LDS missionaries, 2 guys dressed real nice with "Elder So-and-so" on their name tags. Mind you I still believe in the theory of evolution: The ability for animals to change to adapt to their environments. I had a quick word with the missionaries about where I came from, and that belief. They looked at me and asked if I believed that we came from monkeys. When I told them that it is always a possibility, they told me that I kind of looked like a monkey. some violence happened from my part which I regret because violence is not a form of education. But since then it put this bad taste in my mouth. A few years ago, I decided to study upon the religion, Go to a few of their services. Found that everyone was even more judgmental than those missionaries. I always believed that religion was a way of teaching their morality. To the story, I listened to how this mighty Joseph Smith guy(Who was arrested before for glass-looking) found these plates, magical stones, and a magical hat after speaking with this angel Moroni. Some dude wrote down the scriptures translated from across the room. When i heard this, I canted my head in disbelief that they actually bought this. When I think of this story I think of the volcano insurance guy off Family Guy. But after that when someone says they are mormons, I shake my head as if they are crazy. I dig deep into my heart and I cannot find any acceptance for them. Could someone help me find a path to accept them?

caz

Yes alot of their beleifs do sound crazy as Illistrated on that episode of south park. But such is perfect time to practise patience toward them and show them some loving kindness.

Roger

First of all correct their ignorance. We did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from __apes__. It's insulting to the monkeys.

Path to accept them? Ask what's the worst that can happen? Imagine, for example, as a political power in the USA they can get a doofus elected who will push the nuclear button then we all die a miserable, if not immediate death. Accept that POSSIBILITY and you can accept people who think they have absolute truth and the one and only true God on their side. Seriously, life will continue eventually on this planet, certainly in the rest of the universe. Oh well..., too bad but no big deal.

FWIW, That's how I deal with it.

federica

(. . .)They looked at me and asked if I believed that we came from monkeys. When I told them that it is always a possibility, they told me that I kind of looked like a monkey.

First of all correct their ignorance. We did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from __apes__.

.....

No, it's not a possibility. (And Roger, this is not accurate, either.)

You - and they, naturally - have missed out a vitally important detail:
We are not descended from monkeys.
We - and monkeys - share a COMMON ANCESTOR.

At one point, there was a schism, a division, a glitch in the evolutionary process, and 'one side' went off into Simian, the 'other' went off into Homo Sapiens....
But we are not descended from monkeys.
genetically, we share many of the same traits, and it shows. But it's only a genetic link. Not a blood-line.

as for accepting another Religion - just as strongly as you believe they \are crazy, so they believe the same of you.
With as much conviction and sincerity.
It's not deliberate malicious intent, it's simply what they believe. And much as your opinion hinges on "Woah, can't they see how dumb this all is??" they would have the same opinion of (us) Buddhists, for putting our confidence in some guy who apparently sat there all night, and was shot at with arrows which turned into flowers, and was seduced by beautiful women who suddenly turned into harridan hags, and who when he touched the earth, it shook.... Yeah, right.... How is that any more credible than what they think??

Whenever you resist, hate, condemn or ridicule anything, you hold it as close To your own heart and mind, as if you loved it with a burning passion.

"Love" and "hate" are almost the same emotions, anatomically/biologically speaking. They fire off similar impulses and responses in our brain and nervous system. Upon examination of the physical responses in a person's body, it's impossible to know, (without verbal investigation) which of the two, a person is experiencing.

The opposite to Love, therefore, is not Hate.
the opposite to Love, is Indifference.

It is the person who cares the least, who controls the most.

Cultivate Compassion for people who, fundamentally, are precisely like you.
But be indifferent to what they believe.

Roger

You - and they, naturally - have missed out a vitally important detail:
We are not descended from monkeys.
We - and monkeys - share a COMMON ANCESTOR.

At one point, there was a schism, a division, a glitch in the evolutionary process, and 'one side' went off into Simian, the 'other' went off into Homo Sapiens....
But we are not descended from monkeys.
genetically, we share many of the same traits, and it shows. But it's only a genetic link. Not a blood-line.

Oops I'm wrong again federica! :banghead: Thanks for the heads up.

I should say we are closer to the apes than we are to monkeys. BTW, I did not say "descended from apes" I said "evolved from apes."

Common ancestor like you say, branching off (same as "evolved?" I dunno).

So when they saw "We descended from monkeys" I'll reply, "No we didn't! We EVOLVED as an offshoot on the evolutionary tree closest to the apes. The monkeys are far more distant!"

I'll do anything to NOT insult the monkeys! LOL

Good point!

federica

I guess you have it right there, yes. Thanks Roger.

O/T:Nice to see the 'attachments' feature is now working, too!!!

Deformed

First, the identity of these people as Mormons is a social fiction, an abstraction of reality. These are all different people with varying reasons why they behave as they do. Some of it may have to do with the church, some of it may not.

The way to accept is not to percieve them through the delusion of abstraction. From there comes insight.

Roger

I guess you have it right there, yes. Thanks Roger.

Thank you! I'd say __we__ got it right. As long as you and I have the same apes as offshoots. (joking)

Diasent

I want to thank you for your replies. Even though The proof isn't 100%, I always leave the possibility open until it becomes that way. I understand that they look at me like I'm crazy and that I am no better than they are. I do my best to live a life as sort of beacon where their burdens seem lighter. I don't know if this is the path where I am meant to go, but it makes my heart lighter when others are at ease around me.

Roger

Complication for me is these people frighten me. They are often soooo resolute and immovable in their beliefs and expectations about what should occur, whichever the issue..., it's just frightening.

IOW, there's no wiggle room for learning new things; everything will be filtered so to speak: scary!

Again, I have to imagine the worst possible outcome and try to distance myself and try to see it as not that bad.

Is that nuts? I'm sure as individuals I'd get along with each and every one of them. Same thing with individual Taliban members: as long as we didn't discuss religion we'd get along.

OTOH, I'm afraid they'd get together and as a group and "vote me off the island" in a heartbeat! Oh well..., I'll do what I can to improve mutual understanding but if that fails let them kill me in my sleep. No biggie.

federica

Thank you! I'd say __we__ got it right. As long as you and I have the same apes as offshoots. (joking)

I'm sure we do. No joke... therefore all humans are the same genetically root-wise...no division there!

....I don't know if this is the path where I am meant to go, but it makes my heart lighter when others are at ease around me.

Oh that's easy. It's wonderful to be who we are, when everyone around us is of a like mind. It makes 'being' so much simpler!

This is why the Buddha recommended that we view all dissenters as teachers, why Jesus recommended we Love our Enemies, and why Zun Tzu recommended we keep our friends close, but our enemies closer....

it's all to do with Training the Mind and practising Compassion and Acceptance.

If you saw a Mormon in physical distress as a result of a car accident, you would never think, "I cannot possibly offer you assistance, your beliefs are so different to mine so as to make you seem insane in my eyes!" would you?

More importantly, perhaps, if you were on the receiving end of a serious injury under similar circumstances - would you be content for them to think the same?

No, I guess not.
Remember - WHAT a person thinks, says or does, does not make them WHO they are....

Pilot

You don't believe in science Diasent .

Anyway, understand that people have different perspectives in life. I find that it helps me be compassionate and understanding with other people.

Diasent

If you saw a Mormon in physical distress as a result of a car accident, you would never think, "I cannot possibly offer you assistance, your beliefs are so different to mine so as to make you seem insane in my eyes!" would you?

Actually, I have crawled into an upside down car on the freeway. It wasn't to save a person though, It was their pet. I love my dog, so I knew they loved theirs. Poor thing was all cut up.

Remember - WHAT a person thinks, says or does, does not make them WHO they are

Doesn't all that define who a person is?

Ada_B

First of all correct their ignorance. We did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from __apes__. It's insulting to the monkeys.

Sorry to be pedantic Roger but we didn't evolve from modern monkeys or modern apes - humans, apes and monkeys have a common ancestor a few million years ago, from whom monkeys, apes, humans and other primate species evolved.

It's bad enough people like the LDS being anti-evolutionary theory, but when they can't even get it right what they're disagreeing with, well, Sheesh, what are you to do?

Personally, I don't get angry, I get kind of eye-rolling and wonder about the state of education in the world.

federica

Remember - WHAT a person thinks, says or does, does not make them WHO they are

Doesn't all that define who a person is?

No. It explains what they do, but it doesn't make them who they are.
I am a mother, sister, daughter, retail manager, dog behaviourist, partner, Qi Gong instructor, erstwhile Shiatsu practitioner, Uk citizen, bi-lingual woman.

This tells you things about me, but it doesn't tell you precisely what makes me tick.

There is a distinction .
These are all 'labels' we place upon people in order to identify and distinguish....
labels do not a person MAKE.

Deformed

The problem is the so called "belief systems". First, the false sense of importance put on beliefs alone is not beneficial. Also, if our beliefs are not changing, we are denying reality, because reality has countless ways it can shatter our beliefs is we acknowledge it.

"Complication for me is these people frighten me."

Roger, I'm wondering who you are referring to here. Perhaps "these people" is the complication here for you.

Diasent

I understand your point, but its what makes you tick that pushes you in towards the direction of what you do. That and the economy. For instance, the things you listed reflect an urge to lead, to be on top, either because you have been in the background growing up, almost invisible. or people have naturally followed you. This is only one part of what makes someone tick. But correct me if I'm wrong I'm not as good as I used to be at this kind of stuff.

federica

These are all identities I have to drop because they are associated with an impermanent Self. They are part-and-parcel of my not-self....
Ultimately, when I die, of what use will they have been to me?
What of these things, will remain as a permanent fixture, when I am gone?
This is why I say they are definitions of what I do, but not of ultimately, who I am.

Diasent

These are all identities I have to drop because they are associated with an impermanent Self. They are part-and-parcel of my not-self....
Ultimately, when I die, of what use will they have been to me?
What of these things, will remain as a permanent fixture, when I am gone?
This is why I say they are definitions of what I do, but not of ultimately, who I am.

Everyone has an indentation on the world, it does not matter the size. The methods of your leadership skills will pass onto others even in the slightest way, as When I let someone change lanes, they tend to let someone in as well. Just the slightest of any interaction will leave some sort of print. Essentially the use they have been to you is the simple fact of knowing that what you have done was to teach others how to fish as opposed to just giving them one. This may not hold merit to you, but in my opinion, it should be commended and idolized. Just spending a few moments to post here helps people find their way when lost. As for me, What I think, what I say, and what I do is all part of what makes me tick. I find great value in things hidden between the lines.

federica

ok.

Diasent

ok.

[DeletedUser]

ok :grr:

Evolution is a fact of life but the impact can be slowed down in a more blissful way. Even Buddha Sakyamuni also has to follow the truth of evolution in accordance with the living on this world known as the southern continent of Jambudvīpa (in the buddhism context) during his manifestation in India :rockon:

Roger

First of all correct their ignorance. We did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from __apes__. It's insulting to the monkeys.

Sorry to be pedantic Roger but we didn't evolve from modern monkeys or modern apes - humans, apes and monkeys have a common ancestor a few million years ago, from whom monkeys, apes, humans and other primate species evolved.

No problem Beta. I goofed. I back-peddled and explained in a post above. All this effort only because I don't want to insult monkeys (joking). I hope monkeys rest a bit easier knowing we humans are rather more distant from them than chimps and gorillas (Hominoidea = apes = no tails) in the family of primates. I'm glad I got corrected. Thanks you guys; it gave me a reason to learn more about it. Interesting stuff.