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Arizona shooting

Ada_BAda_B
edited January 2011 in Buddhism Today
Hi All, I don't want to get party-political, just share my condolences with all Americans over this terrible tragedy, especially the bereaved relatives and the individuals injured.

But also, I feel it is important to show compassion towards the guy who did it, as he is obviously full of rage and hatred for some reason, which is worse suffering, in a way (not that I don't think he should be punished).

I hope some good may come of it, particularly over the increasingly aggressive and vitriolic politics in that state which some see as a trigger for this act. May people learn that it is possible to sincerely disagree, without hatred or anger towards your opponent.

I want Americans to know that this tragedy has deeply touched the people of UK.

Comments

  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    isn't Arizona the place where a racist anti-latinAmerican laws were recently passed? 'don't have enough information about this specific shooting, but... karma is a one word dharma.

    it is Ameriga btw :)
  • metameta
    Thanks Beta. It's pretty upsetting and I'm sure I can speak for most of Americans when I say thank you for the kind words. There is a very serious lack of understanding about the effects of loose gun laws here. 27,000 + dead a year from gun violence. (Doesn't include mammed and injured or suicides.)

    I also think you make a very important point about compassion for the killer. http://www.thepowerofforgiveness.com/pdf/Forgiveness_in_Buddhism.pdf
  • zenbikerzenbiker
    I think it's just as important to think about care for the mentally ill as it is to think about gun laws in the wake of this event. The man had a long history of mental illness and yet was not receiving treatment (nor, as I understand it, could parents force him into treatment as he was over 18).
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    I appreciate the comments. Yet another sad tale of lax gun laws, virtually no social infrastructure to care for the mentally ill, and an unbelievably caustic political climate all coming together with the results we see. Very sad for all involved. After hearing a few comments on the radio this evening, I'm hopeful that maybe, just maybe this might make a few people in this country start to take a look at how their hateful rhetoric is affecting society. It's probably a false hope, but at least the conversation is beginning to be heard.
  • RogerRoger
    edited January 2011
    I go this way. Remember Saddam? He was a ruthless dictator responsible for terrible crimes. I see pictures of him and what he represents and I'm not having positive emotions.

    That said, the exclusive FBI interviewer of Saddam got to know the guy in his jail cell and rather quickly learned the guy was interesting, polite, not a raving angry tormented person. The FBI agent came to like Saddam.

    So, now do I like Saddam or Hitler for that matter? I ____would____ treat him kindly if __ I__ were the FBI guy in close contact with him, but when he's not in my sphere I GET VERY CLOSE to thinking of him as a total worthless POS.

    Funny huh? Just being honest. Same goes for anybody who murders innocent people: When I'm at a distance I get very close to hating them or what they represent! I'm admitting I'm not perfect (yet :D ).

    HEY!!! Maybe it's that "USEFUL (or not) ANGER" we were talking about a few days ago! :)
  • zenbikerzenbiker
    Roger, that's a very good point.
  • WednesdayWednesday
    Crazy or not he did the wrong thing.
  • Ada_BAda_B
    Crazy or not he did the wrong thing.
    Crazy people sometimes do the wrong thing without being able to help it. It could happen to any of us.
  • karmadorjekarmadorje
    Roger: Feminist epistemology has deeply explored this very subject of how Other is used as a way to dehumanize. While the analysis was prompted by the objectification of women, it is equally as true of how we propagandize against state and personal enemies. We view our enemy as one-dimensional, possessed of only bad qualities. Personal interaction or identification with the enemy short-circuits this process.

    Our political leaders are quite cognizant of the mechanics of how to manipulate this cognitive tendency. I hear all the time about how Ahmadinejad is a raving lunatic, for example. I don't think it is true. I may disagree vigorously with his political standpoint and religious beliefs and his bombastic and inflammatory rhetoric but I don't think it wise to deny his humanity. When we do this, it makes conflict all the more inevitable.

    It is somewhat different when dealing with a sick person like Jared Loughner. He caused tremendous suffering and he was himself suffering tremendously. From a buddhist perspective, he will surely spend many, many lifetimes suffering from the consequences of his rage-filled actions. What a tragedy! He really must be in all of our prayers.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    ............. From a buddhist perspective, he will surely spend many, many lifetimes suffering from the consequences of his rage-filled actions. What a tragedy! He really must be in all of our prayers.
    I'm not sure how you can assert what this young man's 'future lifetimes' will be. He is still alive and still a human being; he thus still has the chance to 'step off the wheel'. To make such a judgment seems far from a Buddhist perspective.

  • bodhipunkbodhipunk
    This was a horrible tragedy. I think it would probably do us all a little good to take the time to remember the victims. Their lives may have been cut short, but they sure did a lot with the time they had. They are shining examples that, despite the craziness in this world, there are still a lot of good people out there.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/09/nation/la-na-arizona-shooting-victims-20110110
  • karmadorjekarmadorje

    I'm not sure how you can assert what this young man's 'future lifetimes' will be. He is still alive and still a human being; he thus still has the chance to 'step off the wheel'. To make such a judgment seems far from a Buddhist perspective.
    One can assert it by taking this present life and projecting onward. Of course Mr. Loughner has buddha nature and could have an awakening of the same kind as Angulimala. However, he is living in a barbaric border country which has only recently had the first shoots of buddha dharma take root in it, he is now incarcerated and will likely be subject to the death penalty and he has obvious mental imbalances. When I look at the stable people I know who have had the benefit of their freedom, have faith in the words of the Buddha and have practiced sincerely, even many of them have not penetrated to the essence in years of practice. How much harder for someone in Mr. Loughner's position who has none of their freedoms and opportunities?

    The point of this is to say that when we see the fruits of actions we feel compassion for those who are suffering, so we must also feel deep sorrow for those who are sowing the seeds of such torment to be reaped in the future.

  • MellowViperMellowViper
    The shooting was really sad, and after I heard about it, I thought over what the meaning of political extremism is, and I think you can gauge it by how much someone demonizes their opposition. That guy who carried out the shooting felt the congress woman, the judge, and anybody who was around her was so responsible for everything that was wrong with the world that he felt justified in killing them.

    I also think its immature when people try to discredit moderates, simply because they fall on one side of the left or right paradigm of politically motivated acts of terrorism. Liberals who want to enforce moderate environmental safety codes on industry and support the health care bill aren't eco terrorists who want to deconstruct society to a primitive level and dispossess landowners of their property, and conservatives who are resistive to gun regulation and higher taxes aren't private militia men who want to overthrow the Illuminati run government and Federal Reserve to restore order to the Republic and enforce a monetary system based on gold. I think when people lose site of the difference between moderate views and extreme views, it just skews any possibility for rational debate.

    I believe most people, even if they're wrong, think they're doing things the right way. People don't like being scorned as the epitome of evil, and they're not going to be very receptive to criticisms or alternative perspectives when approached with that attitude, even if there's a valid basis for it. I don't think anybody's point of view is ever 100% wrong, but ideological views get more deranged and more out of touch with reality the more it loses perspective with that.
  • scruffysmileyfacescruffysmileyface
    Let's not get carried away with group-think.

    As far as I can see, this guy in Arizona wasn't particularly in bed with any political side. I understand that we see the shooting of a politican in America and we jump to the automatic conclusion that the event was sparked by some anti-this or anti-that political bent, but the plain fact is that this guy committed a horrible crime.

    Remember also that the one responsible for the act is the one who committed the act. Yes we're all part of the same whole, and I feel that just as you do and spend hours strengthening that mindfulness. But coursing within prajna paramita doesn't absolve the individual of his or her responsibility. The whole of society shouldn't have to pay for the criminal act of one man.

    Let's try to avoid jumping to assumptions and baseless conclusions, even if they happen to support our already-held beliefs. Arizona gun laws aren't to blame here; shootings happen in every part of the world, whether guns are easy to get or not. Republicans like Sarah Palin or even Rush Limbaugh aren't to blame either, and it's not a matter of "calling for unity" or for "a more civil political discourse".

    Let's try to resist the temptation to use this tragedy to bolster our own politics.
  • karmadorjekarmadorje
    Very few are saying that the actions of the shooter were *caused* by any particular act of incivility. However, there is no doubt that political discourse in the US is polarized beyond any time in living memory. Such a caustic environment makes it much more likely that a deranged individual will commit a crime such as this. Responsible public discourse should dial this kind of behaviour back, whether on the left or the right. Are you saying that hateful speech is OK? I think you will find very little sympathy in the buddhist teaching for this. Also, how is the call for a more civil society somehow "the whole of society paying for the criminal act of one man"? Should we not always strive to see the point of view of our fellow citizens? Would it not be better to be less divided?

    Your argument about gun laws is specious. There are *far* less homicides per capita in countries with responsible gun laws such as the UK and Canada. That's an empirical fact. Moreover, the number of suicides in countries with stricter gun laws are also far lower. Look at the example of Australia, where they bought back assault weapons after a ban. They halved gun homicides and suicides. Mentally unbalanced people with concealed handguns are not a "well-regulated militia" as the Constitution promotes. We regulate toys and food more strenuously than guns. Again, buddhism has very little positive to say about weapons. Do you think Lord Buddha would suggest that his monks pack heat?
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