Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Parents, Undoubted Obedience and The Buddha
Warning. there's quite a long read ahead, read the main pointers if you'd like. You can further substantiate by reading the rest of the post: This is a question on applying mindfulness in an event like this. Do I blindly follow my parents or do that and but still do the reverse? I wouldn't want to to lie. I want my parents to understand where I am coming from. This can be a general thread on how to apply Buddhism to Teenage problems specifically with dealing with parents. I stress that I know marijuana is a form of attachment. A form of aversion. The 'core' question here is how to deal with parents and how to apply mindfulness and compassion in situations like these.
Without going into to too much personal detail, I think it will complicate things to the point where there's no practical use, I seek advice on what Buddha said about parents and authority. What does the enlightened one say about so, just to to consider his view.
I understand parents do what they think is best for their children. They want them to live and succeed in all aspects of life. They insist that their word is hard law, and that I should blindly follow, without question, and without attempts to make it a two-way communication kinda thing. They argue, we only want what is best, and since we know more you should follow exactly what we say to lead you to a correct path in life.
Take the topic of drugs. A debate sparked over the dinner table about marijuana. I happen to smoke marijuana, I've read research, countless articles on marijuana. I know it's pros and cons, though I am aware I am inclined to be bias at times in my research, almost justifying my actions by seeking it's pros. I admit that I am blinded in a way as well. My parents have even come to the point that they KNOW, and they DON'T care about the evidence. They've seen people who's lives were greatly affected (badly) by drugs. I even brought up the fact that, what they know is a misrepresentation of the population that do drugs. Everyday people do it, not all are bad. I asked, what if you've known good potheads, from the past, instead of 'bad' potheads. Surely your opinion would be different, I asked. They INSISTED that it is bad.
The question was raised, if I've ever tried it, and I admit I have, and If I do still consume it, I replied yes. They insist that I stop or else I will lose all trust from them. Is this really a fair thing to tell someone? They are misinformed. I even argued moderation is the key, but they insisted that all potheads are the same, they are failures and worthless. They gave me an ultimatum to stop, or else I'd lose all respect and trust that they have for me.
Without going into to too much personal detail, I think it will complicate things to the point where there's no practical use, I seek advice on what Buddha said about parents and authority. What does the enlightened one say about so, just to to consider his view.
I understand parents do what they think is best for their children. They want them to live and succeed in all aspects of life. They insist that their word is hard law, and that I should blindly follow, without question, and without attempts to make it a two-way communication kinda thing. They argue, we only want what is best, and since we know more you should follow exactly what we say to lead you to a correct path in life.
Take the topic of drugs. A debate sparked over the dinner table about marijuana. I happen to smoke marijuana, I've read research, countless articles on marijuana. I know it's pros and cons, though I am aware I am inclined to be bias at times in my research, almost justifying my actions by seeking it's pros. I admit that I am blinded in a way as well. My parents have even come to the point that they KNOW, and they DON'T care about the evidence. They've seen people who's lives were greatly affected (badly) by drugs. I even brought up the fact that, what they know is a misrepresentation of the population that do drugs. Everyday people do it, not all are bad. I asked, what if you've known good potheads, from the past, instead of 'bad' potheads. Surely your opinion would be different, I asked. They INSISTED that it is bad.
The question was raised, if I've ever tried it, and I admit I have, and If I do still consume it, I replied yes. They insist that I stop or else I will lose all trust from them. Is this really a fair thing to tell someone? They are misinformed. I even argued moderation is the key, but they insisted that all potheads are the same, they are failures and worthless. They gave me an ultimatum to stop, or else I'd lose all respect and trust that they have for me.
0
Comments
Now, on the other hand, Buddha disproved of drugs and intoxicants, but thats a different debate.
You have requested the enlightened one's view.
The enlightened one encouraged each individual to make their own decisions in life by examining whether an action is beneficial or harmful, as follows: Apart from that, although what you reported has made your parents sound a little harsh (but not to the point they will disown you), the enlightened one's view of these matters, in terms of parental responsibilities and the social impact of your actions, is not inconsistent with the actions or opinions of your parents.
It is reported the enlightened one said: My personal opinion is it is best to regard your parent's views as normal & to be expected and regard your own behaviour & views as "unconventional".
Warm regards
DD
You also have the weighty responsibility of accepting the consequences.
Your choice. But take it on the chin.
personally, as a Mum - I'm afraid I see it from your parents' side.
You live under my roof? Then these are my rules. you don't like it? Grow a pair and move out.
And don't let the knob hitcha....
I was doing my pre-bed meditation and your post arose as a mental object in my mind, to the point I felt compelled to log on.
In terms of your question above, my view is what you have described is not a fair thing to tell someone. As I said in my previous post, for me, to tell a son you would "lose all respect and trust" towards them is a little harsh. These words would be very hurtful words to hear.
The Enlightened One said: I did not wish to leave you with the impression The Enlightened One (or myself) would have exactly the same attitude as your parents. The Enlightened One certainly said using drugs has its dangers, including harming one's reputation with others. The Enlightened One did say it is a natural responsibility of parents to try to protect their children from what they regard as harmful.
But as for losing all respect and trust, this goes a little far. It is difficult for me to see how a parent could actually lose all trust & respect. I trust your parents do not mean what they said 100%.
The Enlightened One said: If your parent's words have hurt you, tell them, with honesty. If you believe you are trustworthy, tell them, with honesty. Whatever positive feelings you have towards your parents, tell them, with honesty.
However, as I previously suggested, regarding the primary concerns your parents have, it is best you acknowledge these because it is natural & normal for parents to have such concerns.
For me, that your parents care is far far better than if they did not care at all.
All the best
Kind regards
DD
Tuff situation I'll come back to this thread again.. I did give a couple solutions think them over (if your not baked you scoundrel) think of the pros and cons and think of the middle ground. Lying to your parents is stressful.
Buddhism has this to say about your situation: Actions have consequences. Only suffering comes from you wanting the world and people in it to conform to your desires. You can wish your parents were cool about the whole thing, but it ain't gonna happen. So you have some choices to make, and each direction brings its own karma. Just be prepared for it.
Whether you somehow move out (not so easy in today's world), sneak around and do a lot of fighting with them, perhaps until they order you out, or stop smoking pot until you can find somewhere else to live, all of that is your choice. Whatever your actions, there are consequences. Don't fool yourself into believing you can escape the karma of your actions.
On the other side, if you have plenty of reasons to leave the house and using drugs is just a small part of it, see if you are able to do this (there's a big chance that you are). If for any reason you are currently unable to move out, or wish to remain there because the pros weigh up against the cons, stay and follow their rules. Know that you are just playing their game and you can move out in the future, but play their game by their rules. This isn't dishonest to yourself because you realise it is just a game, it isn't dishonest to your parents because you are following their rules.
Other than deciding on what to do, I suggest you should talk to your parents again about what they said about losing their respect and trust and the value of these words.
harsh
that is all.
Hi Pilot,
I agree with DD's words above. It's natural that good parents should want the best for their children and are concerned for their welfare - and your parents are just showing loving concern for you.
It is important that you speak gently, patiently, and with honesty to your parents. They were probably shocked and upset when they said that they would lose their respect and trust in you. We can all sometimes say harsh things that we don't really mean when our minds are agitated.
Speaking from personal experience, I used to smoke weed myself when I was younger, and if I had children myself, I would most certainly stll be concerned about them, because it really isn't a beneficial pastime and leads to heedlessness....and of course quite rightly, alcohol and drugs aren't recommended for Dhamma practice anyway.
With kind wishes,
D.
All kidding aside, the line I have taken with my own kids is to be responsible if they use drugs-- i.e. no vehicles involved, in a safe place, etc. They have had the risks communicated to them. I would much prefer them partaking of pot than alcohol. If kids want to, they will do it. I would much rather them know that home is a safe place if they are too high and that they can always call for help than making them think they need to hide something.
This thread is about buddhism and filial piety, but perhaps it is better to look at it as buddhism vis a vis drugs. Pot will take you in the opposite direction of mindfulness. You may not see it now, but as someone who spent most of my teens and twenties high on psychedelics, trust me. Now you will also end up in states of mind from meditation that make drug highs look very pedestrian, but that's another story. Ask yourself what your objectives are, focus on them and make the sacrifices you need to to get there. And have fun. :-)
.
Thankfully, I'm a lot sober now. In regards of the OP, you're an adult. So long as you live with your parents, you should at least respect their wishes. Yes, they came off pretty harsh and strict. They seem to have a prejudice towards people who smoke, and don't want their kid to turn into a "worthless failure" (and yes, I've known some successful rich people that smoke). They are simply concerned, and probably frustrated, and said some things that came off pretty harsh. All I can say is that you're an adult. When you move out, you can do whatever you want to. Just don't ever lie or be dishonest. Regardless of what they think of you as a smoker, they would probably be hurt even more if they found out you were hiding it from them.
Where does one draw the line in general as a parent though? If one just tolerates whatever kids enjoy when they're young, does that mean one should ok them watching violent porn or 'snuff' movies if thats what they enjoy ? One could say 'Oh well its better enjoyed on screen in a safe place than them going out and raping or killing someone!'
:scratch:
As long as the child only now and then smokes pot (in the poster's example), but this doesn't influence his life in such a negative manner from which it will be too hard to come back from, they can tolerate and guide the child. If it is already at a stage where the child's life is influenced in such a negative manner, the parents should intervene. However, even with kids, I think there are better ways than zero-tolerance.
But as I don't have any kids myself yet, my idea about this might change though.
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
Principles override taste, here, in my opinion.
principles do change, but they tend to change when the principled are shown in certain ways that their principles are flawed.
I've personally seen nothing here to illustrate to me that my principles are misguided...
i think that the ethics of marijuana are highly debatable and something you may never reach agreement on. however, marijuana is still illegal and as such, they have a right to say that they do not want it in their house.
the fact of the matter is, unless you are medically prescribed marijuana for some ailment, you don't NEED it... so just don't. if you find that this is very difficult for you, then that is all the more reason not to do it.
@DD
Thank you for that very informative post. Honesty is key I guess. Something I have to work on. And of course they said what they said with a bit more emotion. But at least I can count on that emotion being genuine and with the greatest intention.
@karmadorje
I am a moderate user of marijuana and I know the consequences of excessive use. I prefer to use it as a tool to relieve stress, much like coffee is used to wake you up with it's caffeine. I still use it to this day but it's like going out drinking and if I had a really really long day at work, I'll light one. But thank you for your concern
@shanyin
I think it's impossible to be 'physically' obsessed with marijuana. It's addiction potential is much lower than a coffee. This is sound advice however, I will never let drugs control my life. Like I've mentioned before I moderately use it and responsibly, after exams, school-work, etc. Thank for expressing your concern, shanyin.
@supertramp
Point six isn't neccesarily true, regarding marijuana. I even find that I'm more engaged and interested when doing my math specifically, I spend more time doing problems but lazyness is the only con. It immerses me in whatever I'm doing. But I totally feel what you're saying that I'm playing their game.
@Cinjorer
Thanks for those words Cinjorer. They really helped.. Actions have consequences. I realized that if I do provoke a controversial topic, like the use of drugs, where some people's have strong opinions and beliefs about it, will not change their mind. Especially my parents, and this is doubly so because they are concerned for my safety. And in a way I have to respect that, but I don't have to submit to it. I've told my parents this but believe me they insisted that I follow no matter what. And lo and behold, countless times, they have insisted that will never accept me no accepting their rules. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't want to deal with the worry and trouble of having to explain my self, so I'll follow their rules. I don't think it's a form of dishonesty. I am honest in that I know that their intentions are good, and I truly believe that what I'm doing is good for me. Submission is unnecessary.
Thank you everyone.
With great love and respect,
Pilot
It seems unfortunate that you have been placed into this unpleasant situation, however it is very commendable that you answered honestly to your parents especially when you knew that you might encounter some degree of negative energy in response.
I would suggest being very patient, understanding, and compassionate towards your parents. They are the ones who brought you into this world, fed you, took care of you, and loved you. With that said, there is still the potentiality that they are not perfect, and that they do not have a perfect understanding of the world, including mind altering substances and the consuming of them. For them to threaten you and make you the brunt of resentment and ill will is evidence that they lack proper understanding.
You as a teenager might have to do some maturing and growing up quickly right now on the behalf of yourself, and seemingly your parents, so that you can maintain a smooth relationship with them which is very important, and perhaps expand yours, and their understanding in the process.
That probably means that despite their exhibition of some degree of hostility towards you based on what you have told them you should most likely cooperate with them. Yes, that means that you should, at least for the moment, stop smoking marijuana, and maintain a link of communication with your parents regarding your life without it. It doesn't have to be too heavy or burdensome. All it has to be is "Yeah, this is happening, and that is happening, etc. etc. OK talk to you later, bye." If your parents do not support your decision to consume this mind altering substance, it is most likely recommended that you comply with them and their wishes, because this will lead to the most beneficial outcome for all parties.
In the meantime, have some fun, read some books about some cool stuff. Buddha's teachings are really interesting and actually a joyful experience when you put them into practice. There's so much in life to experience that goes beyond the use of drugs. If you can learn to look within and establish a place of peace and happiness then no matter what happens you will always be safe, and you will not want for anything.
There is a solution to this problem, and it can work out well for you and your parents all together. All you have to do is maintain a positive outlook, apply the effort, and be patient. There most likely will be some bumps along the road, but I'm sure you can make it especially if you have the Dhamma there to help you along. You will always be safe.
Good luck.
-Tikal
Your parents' actions and reactions would of course be expected to be commensurate with their horrifying legal and financial liability.
Only a child would not comprehend what it means to be personally encumbered in life with legal and financial liability for another person.
When one lives as a child one lives in the safety of the parents' palace and under the parents' responsibility, liability, and authority.
When one lives as an adult, one abandons living in the safety of the parents' palace and lives under one's own responsibility, liability, and authority.
The Buddha was a young man too.
He did not hang around like a child arguing with his parents or chafing under their control or expecting them to meet his needs for support, validation, and/or approval. Their control was absolute and included his arranged marriage to produce an heir to guarantee the continuation of their rule. He married and produced the requisite heir, guaranteeing his consort's position as dowager regent, then moved out of the palace and sought his own truth and his own path.
"confiscation of property used in the commission of a crime" to include the house in which the commission of the crime occurred, particularly in cases of production or trade of illegal substances on the premises.
In addition to that, if any young children are exposed to or endangered by illegal activities within a house, in many countries they too may be confiscated and be made wards of the state.
The first choice you have to make is whether you want to be "your own man" OR you want to live with your parents. Been there. Done that. I chose to continue to live at home because it was easier. And I had a very controlling mother (actually grandmother, but that's a long story. I had various reasons for living at home. Part of it was financial. Part of it was to take care of an aging relative who had CHOSEN to take care of me when my parents divorced. But looking back, if I thought I was "my own man", I was only fooling myself.
You ask about Buddha's thoughts on this. Well, it appears he was not "his own man" while he lived under his father the king's grace. He was sheltered from real life by his father. And it was not until after he left home that he became "his own man" and founded principles that are recognized the world over.
The second issue several of us are bringing up is the drug issue. To be honest, I don't understand why you care about what Buddha thought about being "your own man" and living at home, when you don't care about what Buddha definitely taught -- the Five Precepts --
...harming living beings.
...taking things not freely given.
...sexual misconduct.
...false speech.
...intoxicating drinks and drugs causing heedlessness.
Well, actually I do know. Because what you seem to be doing, unwittingly perhaps, is seeking the support of Buddhist teachings when you think they may be on your side, while ignoring Buddhist teachings when they the opposite from your preferred thinking. On the one hand, Buddhist teachings are not like the Ten Commandments, but on the other hand it's not possible to just ignore the most basic of Buddhist principles and still say you care about Buddhist thought. If you read much on this website you will see that what we do mostly is discuss our interpretations of Buddhist principles. The Precept about intoxicating drinks and drugs...well, there's not much in there to interpret. It's very straight forward.
Bottom line -- after reading your post -- move out and be your own man. Until you do, in your parent's eyes (and mine) you're still a boy. And I'm saying that to insult you, I'm saying that because in some ways it reflects how I lived my early life.
If you like pot as much as you do... and you truly believe it's ok to smoke it, then just wait until you are free from their house to do so (pot's not going anywhere, it'll wait for you). But, please don't move out just to smoke pot, or just to escape the argument. If you are about to be 19 and your parents still want you to live with them... please do. I never had the help of a parent when I started my life at 15 going on 16. I didn't manage to get myself into college until I was 23. It was an uphill battle just to get to this point. For awhile, I was envious of the kids who had parents willing to help them start their lives. Use whatever help they'll give you to get your life started. Sacrificing some independence for a helping hand is definitely worth it. There are plenty of kids who would be willing to lick the floors clean everyday if it meant having parents who want to help you in life (I woulda' licked them clean, and even done the laundry, lol). If they are pretty cool on most other things, then definitely fight the urge to strike off on your own just so you can answer to yourself. Once your parents stop helping you, you will definitely be your own man... for the rest of your life.
But don't forget... until the day your parents pass on, they will always want to guide you or give you their input! After all they put a human on this earth so the responsibility of molding his character is probably daunting. Try to see it from their eyes and imagine you had the responsibility of molding a human being! Heavy stuff! So forgive them if they feel like they have to make ultimatums. You're blessed to have a caring family.