Do you pray?

footiam

Buddhists all over the world do pray and in different styles too. Should Buddhists pray and how do you pray?

Supertramp

In which styles do buddhists all over the world pray, then? It probably depends on your definition of praying.

whiterabbit

There is nothing to pray to. Praying is a wrong view. There is certainly no way to read canon and reach a different conclusion. Yes lots of people do so, pray to the Buddha, pray to various Gods, but that doesn't mean they should.

This is one thing, having been raised Christian and having prayed almost every night of my life, that I found difficult upon conversion. Now when I feel the desire to pray, I meditate or read the Dhamma instead.

I suppose there is no harm in praying as a sort of pseudo-meditation as long as one understands that there is no entity or being which responds to or fulfills your prayer. Prayer can be therapeutic on that level, in my opinion.

Dazzle

I recall years ago H.E. Tai Situpa once answering a question about praying to the Buddhas. He said something along the lines of if one is in a sinking ship, its best to look for the lifeboat first, before doing any prayers to be saved by Buddhas.

bodhipunk

Most of my friends and family aren't Buddhists, but I've respectfully participated in many different prayer services with them. However, I do not pray to invoke or petition any external forces. I personally view prayers more or less the same way I view mantras: something which can be used to focus the mind and develop loving-kindness.

Also, I always try to incorporate the Pali chant (it isn't a mantra, per se) "sabbe satta sukhi hontu" (or "may all beings be happy/well") into any prayers I say or participate in.

sukhita

Every morning and evening, I kneel before the altar, with clasped hands, and "recite" mantras/verses as a pre-meditation practice -
~ Homage to the Buddha.
~ Five Precepts.
~ Forgiveness.
~ Loving-kindness (metta).

Sometimes, I refer to this as a "prayer" for want of a better word, but it is not directed to any celestial being. It is more like a "pep talk" to myself, a recollection to instill enthusiasm for the practice. It does calm me and put me in a better frame of mind both for the meditation session and for the rest of the day as well. But I'm clueless as to what "prayer" exactly means in Buddhism and how it is practiced in different traditions.

Mountains

Prayer is a wrong view? Says who? If that's so, why are prayer flags and prayer wheels such an integral part of Buddhist practice in so many places? Why is it wrong to wish well-being and happiness to all sentient beings? I do it every day in my practice, as do almost all other Buddhists I'm aware of.

I think making blanket statements about what's right or wrong is the wrong view in this case

karmadorje

Intentions are the source of all good qualities. Prayer is simply engaging in enlightened intention as Mountains has said. Who said that prayer has to be to some external samsaric being? One can view one's own buddha nature as the guru and pray to and surrender to it. If people are uncomfortable with devotion as a practice, there are many buddhist paths for them that do not require it. It is a real stretch to say that those methods that rely upon it have wrong view, however.

Simonthepilgrim

As has been said, in other words, it all depends on what you mean by 'prayer'. The format of "May all beings be happy" is the format of a prayer.

Truly, I do not know if prayer makes any difference 'out there', but I am aware that it is beneficial to me, settling my mind away from myself and towards others. thus, each day, I review a list of names of those who have asked for and/or agreed to be remembered in this way. This precedes my meditation session and is part of settling my intention.

If, as I suspect, all is connected and the 'butterfly effect' operates, good thyoughts cannot do other than good within the pleroma.

And what else is the use of a mala and mantras other than a form of prayer?

whiterabbit

Well look, prayer means an entreaty or dialogue with a God or omnipotent entity. If you hold the belief that there is a God to hear, listen, and answer your prayers, then that is Wrong View from a Buddhist standpoint. If anyone tells you otherwise then they themselves hold wrong views. The Buddha's words are very clear on this.

If you want to define prayer as mantra or chant or meditation then I don't see anything wrong with that but from a western point of view, and for someone asking this question as new to buddhism, then generally we're talking about deity prayer. Personally, I don't find any scriptural basis for chanting or mantra either. The Buddha specifically warned against singing for monastics in fact, though I know a great deal of discussion has been had on this subject. I do find it beautiful and useful for memorization and developing mindfulness but I often wonder if it entrenches clinging to feeling.

karmadorje

Actually, that's not true. The Buddha did not deny that there are deities that can answer prayers and give boons. He said that they can not provide true refuge as they themselves are not free from samsara. Wrong view in Buddhism is doubting shunyata or taking refuge in such beings.

Depending on the buddhas and bodhisattvas *as if* they are external beings is not wrong view. Their vows powered by the force of their compassion and tremendous punya very definitely have effect in samsara and when one sets up an intentional connection with their field of activity, one experiences results in accord with their intention. You can believe that or not, but it is an intrinsic part of Vajrayana practice.

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

sukhita

I agree with Shakespeare.
EDIT: or should I say I agree with Hamlet?

Simonthepilgrim

@whiterabbit:
Of course, if you limit the definition of prayer, you can knock down your strw man. You may want to notice that others have different ideas. Perhaps, when you declare that the Buddha Shakyamuni was clear or 'warned' about the subject, you could do us poor seekers the grace of direct attributions.

whiterabbit

It is not limiting the definition to use a dictionary. If we wish to expand upon the standard definition then by all means please do but be clear that it is a non-standard definition.

Brahmajala Sutta 2.1-2.6 is the only reference I have in front of me and can recall specifically as applicable to the question of deities. There are plenty of others but alas, I do not possess the memory of Ananda.

As for praying to deities, I agree that one could surely pray to a pantheon of devas/Brahmas in the higher realms. I wouldn't necessarily agree that this is a proper thing to do in terms of the Path.

And that's the last I have to say on the matter.

federica

It is not limiting the definition to use a dictionary. If we wish to expand upon the standard definition then by all means please do but be clear that it is a non-standard definition.

That would depend on what you mean by standard. My dictionary gives 4 definitions, only one of which refers to a God... so what you mean by 'standard' is 'generally accepted', but simply because something is generally accepted, it doesn't make it singularly accurate.
Just as all black people in America seem to be referred to as 'African American' when it is actually widely known that they're not all African American, the word prayer doesn't necessary define what you believe it does.

Brahmajala Sutta 2.1-2.6 is the only reference I have in front of me and can recall specifically as applicable to the question of deities. There are plenty of others but alas, I do not possess the memory of Ananda.

You don't need Ananda's memory, and certainly nobody else has it either. What we do have is a search engine and the ability to reference accurate citations for statements we put out as accurate and true.

Back it up, as is customary.
Thanks....

As for praying to deities, I agree that one could surely pray to a pantheon of devas/Brahmas in the higher realms. I wouldn't necessarily agree that this is a proper thing to do in terms of the Path.

Well, if the Buddha said it was ok, with caveats, then I guess it's not a taboo practice... Remind me to advise all the monks in my monastery that their recitations are frowned upon and that it is an improper thing to do in terms of the path'. I'm sure they'll be mortified to know they've been doing it wrong for so long!!

Ficus_religiosa

I do not pray, as I have no one to pray to. To wish for something good for others is not a practice I would describe a "praying".

TheJourney

Haven't prayed in a long time. I would pray, though, if I was particularly worried. And who knows, maybe it would be answered in some way. I just don't see the point in praying. But if the desire arises, I also see no reason not to pray.

johnathan

I found this:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:M_BkEHLgjfgJ:www.khenpo.eu/mantra.pdf+dharani+prayer&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj2O1KK4_c3yJlH3dY52RMUzfRsE_7CzClMs5qitJoehPidI6l_US4A-BFjlqqJwdUO2xdA97d8quwW1FXKweoi4BorXQhimOPb0cexYcAOfV8kyz9Exi5MA8NugTwOvQfHWjbn&sig=AHIEtbQVhvr-_gu1wiA2P3yeHTsU8dp6fA

Below is an excerpt from page 3...

Prayer in Buddhism

In Buddhism, prayer is not primarily a supplication addressed to an external deity but a way of training the mind, through repeating heartfelt ideas. This harnesses the spoken word to useful purpose and reduces the useless chatter of the habitual mental monologue. Nevertheless, many Buddhist prayers do appear, at face value, to be supplications to an external entity and this can seem questionable in the light of Buddhism's non-theism. The answer is simple yet profound. Ultimately there is no external entity. But relatively, for as long as one is divorced from innate perfection, the latter remains something ‘other’ than everyday confusion and great value comes from recognizing the great gulf between these two.

Both prayer and dharani reshape the mind and bring it into focus. Prayers have the disadvantage of being wordy and being the expression of distinct chains of thought. Dharani, triggering lightning associations, are less rational and more spontaneous. By freeing the mind from its preoccupation with slowly lumbering thoughts, they allow it to be open in a more intuitive way to what is known as the
'blessing' of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas, i.e. the presence of higher wisdom.

johnathan

I also found this:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_8_fYkQpU2gJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer+purpose+of+prayer+intention+Buddhism&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=opera

Below is an excerpt from about half ways down the page...

In contrast with Western religion, Eastern religion for the most part discards worship and places devotional emphasis on the practice of meditation alongside scriptural study. Consequently, prayer is seen as a form of meditation or an adjunct practice to meditation.
[edit]
Buddhism

Buddhists praying at Wat Phra Kaew, Thailand.

In certain Buddhist sects, prayer accompanies meditation. Buddhism for the most part sees prayer as a secondary, supportive practice to meditation and scriptural study. Gautama Buddha claimed that human beings possess the capacity and potential to be liberated, or enlightened, through contemplation, leading to insight. Prayer is seen mainly as a powerful psycho-physical practice that can enhance meditation.[48]

In the earliest Buddhist tradition, the Theravada, and in the later Mahayana tradition of Zen (or Chán), prayer plays only an ancillary role. It is largely a ritual expression of wishes for success in the practice and in helping all beings.[49][50][51][52]

The skillful means (Sanskrit: upaya) of the transfer of merit (Sanskrit: parinamana) is an evocation and prayer. Moreover, indeterminate buddhas are available for intercession as they reside in awoken-fields (Sanskrit: buddha-kshetra). The nirmanakaya of a awoken-field is what is generally known and understood as mandala. The opening and closing of the ring (Sanskrit: mandala) is an active prayer. An active prayer is a mindful activity, an activity in which mindfulness is not just cultivated but is.[53] A common prayer is "May the merit of my practice, adorn Buddhas' Pure Lands, requite the fourfold kindness from above, and relieve the suffering of the three life-journeys below. Universally wishing sentient beings, Friends, foes, and karmic creditors, all to activate the bodhi mind, and all to be reborn in the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss." (願以此功德 莊嚴佛淨土 上報四重恩 下濟三途苦 普願諸眾生 冤親諸債主 悉發菩提心 同生極樂國)[54]

The Generation Stage (Sanskrit: utpatti-krama) of Vajrayana involves prayer elements.[55]

The Tibetan Buddhism tradition emphasizes an instructive and devotional relationship to a guru; this may involve devotional practices known as guru yoga which are congruent with prayer. It also appears that Tibetan Buddhism posits the existence of various deities, but the peak view of the tradition is that the deities or yidam are no more existent or real than the continuity (Sanskrit: santana; refer mindstream) of the practitioner, environment and activity. But how practitioners engage yidam or tutelary deities will depend upon the level or more appropriately yana at which they are practicing. At one level, one may pray to a deity for protection or assistance, taking a more subordinate role. At another level, one may invoke the deity, on a more equal footing. And at a higher level one may deliberately cultivate the idea that one has become the deity, whilst remaining aware that its ultimate nature is shunyata. The views of the more esoteric yana are impenetrable for those without direct experience and empowerment. Pure Land Buddhism emphasizes the recitation of prayer-like mantras by devotees. On one level it is said that reciting these mantras can ensure rebirth into a sambhogakaya land (Sanskrit: buddha-kshetra) after bodily dissolution, a sheer ball spontaneously co-emergent to a buddha's enlightened intention. On another, the practice is a form of meditation aimed at achieving realization.

But beyond all these practices the Buddha emphasized the primacy of individual practice and experience. He said that supplication to gods or deities was not necessary. Nevertheless, today many lay people in East Asian countries pray to the Buddha in ways that resemble Western prayer—asking for intervention and offering devotion.

[DeletedUser]

Is a matter of definition. Prayer in Buddhism is elicitation and/or having a present moment of enlightenment from within called Buddha East Asian countries pray to the Buddha although seemed similar to Western prayer but they knew very well that they are in fact the same as Buddha, and their prayer is on remorsefulness over past bad karmic and also for the well beings of all :cool:

Roger

I'm mainly a vegetarian but if I happen to eat meat I say a little prayer TO the animal. Except for chanting "Namo Buddhaya, Namo Dharmaya, Namo Sanghaya," that's about it for my praying.

footiam

Dear Supertramp,

I was thinking in terms of the physical. People here use joss sticks and some may just bow etc. What, I wonder is your definition?

Whiterabbit,

This is something new. That praying is a wrong view. Is this stated anywhere?

Dazzle,
I like that part about looking for a lifeboat first. That's logical. But I haven't heard of this Situpa guy.

Bodhipunk,
I do think praying can help you focus. And it eases the mind. I think you are kind to pray with others. I have heard of people who won't pray to other people's God.

footiam

Dear Sukhita,

I always thought that is praying. But now that you mentioned it, I wonder if there is a better term for it.

Mountain,
You have a point. What are these prayer flags and prayer wheels for if not for praying. But I don't really understand what these flags and wheels are for and

footiam

Dear Sukhita,

I always thought that is praying. But now that you mentioned it, I wonder if there is a better term for it.

Mountain,
You have a point. What are these prayer flags and prayer wheels for if not for praying. By the way, I don't really understand what these flags and wheels are for nor do I know how they look like!

Karmadorje,
I know not of other Buddhist path that you mention.

Simonthepiligrim,

If you say that prayer can be beneficial, I suppose then it makes a difference. Personally, I think it is good to pray because it generates good thoughts but I don't know what this 'butterfly effect' you talk about is or how it works. I only know the domino effect.

footiam

Dear Whiterabbit,
It is not such a terrible idea to have this wrong view - to have a dialogue with God, I suppose. Breaking the precepts would be more terrible!

Karmadorje,
If it is not wrong view, it is not the way to nirvana either or am I wrong?

Sukhita,
Shakespeare is very much a Buddha!

Simonthepilgrim,
I wish I know more about what the Buddha warned.

Supertramp

Dear Supertramp,

I was thinking in terms of the physical. People here use joss sticks and some may just bow etc. What, I wonder is your definition?

I am overwhelmed with information in this thread in such a way that my participation will not contribute much, however since you adressed me I shall answer.

I think my question remains. You say you mean in terms of the physical, but to which diety then would they bow or fling their joss sticks? Surely I bow, to my sensei, but this isn't praying. Surely I kneel or sit sometimes to meditate on certain issues, but this also isn't praying in my opinion. If I were to define praying it would mean asking for things to happen to something I am not sure exists.

That's why I say it depends on your definition, as some have posted here they wish good for all sentiënt beings. One could elaborate over the definition of wishing in this case ofcourse.

footiam

Dear federica,

You open my eyes about praying. It could means so many different things to many different things but I can't see if there is a standard practice and if there is, I suppose you were right about it not having to be right.

Dear Ficus-religiosa,

You make me wonder about your definition for praying.

Dear TheJourney,
To Pray or not the Pray? You give me the idea that that's not the question!

Dear Jonanthan,
That's a good idea. To pray so as to train the mind. Why must it to seek for good things for others or for oneself when that does not lead to enlightenment.Buddhism is supposed to be all about training the mind, or am i wrong?

And thanks for the excerpt! Could not understand everything though!

Dear Wilfred,

I do think there are a lot of East Asians who pray for the well-being of their family members.

Dear Roger,
You can pray for the plants too! A Western monk I met once said praying to say thanks for the food on your table is a good practice. I believe him. Amen!

Dear Supertramp,

You did contribute much! At least now I realsied praying can be defined in many ways and I was just thinking of joss sticks and bowing! And I was not even thinking of deities too. I suppose then when question like 'Do you pray?' arises, a person can say 'yes' or 'no' and defines his or her intepretion of what praying is. After all, what praying is to a person may be not praying to another person. Thanks!

PietroPumokin

i enjoy praying from time to time

Mintyfresh0

I always figured meditation is the Buddhist form of praying.

I mean if I am the supreme ultimate awareness, what external deities are there to pray to? I am all.

footiam

Dear Pietro Pumokin

Other people would enjoy dancing or singing. On the serious side, I wonder how you pray.

Dear MintyfreshO
I suppose if our personal self isthe supreme ultimate awareness, then we should pray to ourselves. That could mean , be responsible!

shanyin

My friend just told me a whacky story that he said he doesn't tell many people because that fact that it happened drives him nuts.

His sister was/is schitzophrenic. She believed she was Jesus Christ at the time, the Messiah. She would read the bible constantly and freak out and this and that.

My friend started freaking out and decided to pray. So this is what he prayed. God if your real show me a sign, send a lunar eclipse to show me you're real.

I asked him why he asked for a lunar ecplipse and he said that the sun and the moon and the stars were the only thing he knew were real at the time. Which I understand. Totally.

The next day there was a lunar eclipse. It came 2 years earlier than expected.

That's the story. I don't know if it's true or not, he told it to me tonight, thought I'd share it.

Bassically he said he thinking about it drives him absolutely nuts. I was talking to him about a lot of things tonight and he's a very logical thinker. If you're a logical thinker and that happens to you it would drive you nuts.

I'm going to try and find this case in history where the lunar eclipse came 2 years early.

Again, I don't know if it's true. He could have already known about the eclipse from the news or something and forgot about it or something.

Many Buddhists say that praying and expecting, wishing, hoping, asking some being to help you is not a good way to think, and I don't necessarilly disagree.

I just thought I'd share the story.

seeker242

I do yes, but I don't pray to anything or any "special being". I pray from myself to myself and others. For example, I pray that when my father dies, he does not have that much suffering. If someone is in a car accident, I pray that they don't have that much suffering and that they get better. If I accidentally kill an animal, I pray that they are reborn in favorable circumstances. On a wider note, praying for the elimination of the suffering for all beings that are suffering, extending good will and wishes for them. Prayer does not necessarily have to be to a deity or special being.

pearl

Is it not possible that an enlightened mind could respond to our prayers?

footiam

Dear Shanyin,

I wouldn't be surprised it the sister, if she lives in ancient time, will be made a saint. it is not unusual to hear of people of the past seeing things and coming back from the dead being regarded as someone holier than thou. And for me, I don't understand why your friend asked for a sign. He could request for God to appear.

Dear Seeker242,
I like your kind of prayer. I think I do that sometime. It is comforting.


Dear Pearl,

I don't know if an enlightened mind can respond to our prayer. Maybe he can't because when a person prays, most of the time, he will not utter a word! Besides,if there are many people praying at the same time, he probably has his hands full! (Just kidding!)

Mountains

The next day there was a lunar eclipse. It came 2 years earlier than expected.

I can pretty much categorically state that that's not true. Eclipses are very easy to calculate, and man has been doing it for thousands of years now, with great success. They don't just spontaneously "happen" two years earlier than expected. That's not the way the orbits of the planets and our moon operate.

Roger

Sorry if this is repetitive. Praying is like chanting: it focusses the mind.

When I do it I don't expect anything in return via supernatural intervention.

All I want is a burst of positive energy and a bit more focussed attention.

Doing it makes my mind pay attention to itself.

It's a convenient portable form of pre-visualization which makes athletes perform better. It requires mental athleticism to follow the B. path.

ravkes

i don't, but prayer is simple mental reaffirmation..
it does help if you repeatedly pray for goodwill for yourself and others all day..
it'll manifest in your reality soon enough, because thoughts run this world.

IronRabbit

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
Mark Twain

mugzy

I do pray, in fact I quite enjoy it. Thich Nhat Hanh wrote a really lovely book about it called _The Energy of Prayer: How to Deepen Your Spiritual Practice_

footiam

Dear Mountains,

I only know that the stork can arrive earlier than expected. Don't know much about eclispe.

Dear Roger,

Don't worry if you have to say what you think a hundred times. It drives home the point and I like your ideas.

Dear Iron Rabbit,

Mark Twain has a way with word. He can make all the profanities sound sweet. We may not have his talent.

Dear Mugzy,

I wonder if we enjoy praying, we will get somewhat attached to it.

CSEe

In Buddha I belief there should be no chantting or praying , we all hv to search our own Buddha by being awake.... so try to look deep into yr self find yr own Buddha.....

ittybittybat

I pray to God; but then again I'm not a traditional Buddhist. I do not see anything wrong with wishing others well, and asking for their happiness. I do find fault with prayers that are like, "God please give me new outfits and a pony" because those are materialistic and selfish.

CSEe

Buddha is what we will became sooner or later......not something to help us in our life but it is our final destination .

johnathan

I thought the final destination was Nirvana? Do you contend that once Nirvana is reached that one becomes Buddha?

CSEe

I belief all living or non living evolved and final state is Buddha- the pure / un polluted energy .
If we do not try to understand our own Buddha , we are away from this energy and we will expose to do more bad act , so one day maybe in life or even in afterlife we will be at higher awareness/ wisdom . We will regret our previous bad act and feel so-so hurt thats is karma . We will come back or find ways to rectify our own bad act , I believe in Buddha no one will " Clean our own rubbish" we will evolved to higher awareness and change it . When we more & more knowing our Buddha , more & more closer to Buddha we will at our own will act for the betterment of others to the fullist .... until we reach a state we hv no regrets of our action . Our " soul account" is closed meaning that we hd done our atmost level best to all at any time in our life ...our soul will be free from any bad feeling.....we will feel emptiness in our soul.....left only pure energy of Buddha maybe that is wht Siddharta claim to be nirvana.

shanyin

@footiam

"I wouldn't be surprised it the sister, if she lives in ancient time, will be made a saint. it is not unusual to hear of people of the past seeing things and coming back from the dead being regarded as someone holier than thou. And for me, I don't understand why your friend asked for a sign. He could request for God to appear. "

INTERESTING!!

I was listening to Terrance Mckenna (talks about alot of things look him up for info) and he was talking about how sort of schitzophrenic people even in society's today like tribal society's are considered very valuable to the society. Here it seems quite the opposite and they seem to become sort of debilitated.

So interesting to think about thank you .

footiam

Dear CSEe,
Besides Buddha, there is a Devil somewhere inside!

And since we are not Buddha yet, there is a lot of Devil inside but you can't pray to the Devil either since like Buddha, he is not around to grant wishes.

No one will clear away our rubbish - that I am sure.

Dear Ittybittybat,

It shoud be all right to pray to a God. Buddha didn't deny the existence of God, did he?- Just that He is not that omnipotent. And I think it's all right to pray for new outfits or pony if only they can be granted.

Dear Jonanthan,

Maybe the final destination is not important. It is the journey that counts.

footiam

@footiam

INTERESTING!!

I was listening to Terrance Mckenna (talks about alot of things look him up for info) and he was talking about how sort of schitzophrenic people even in society's today like tribal society's are considered very valuable to the society. Here it seems quite the opposite and they seem to become sort of debilitated.

So interesting to think about thank you .

You are welcome!

compassionate_warrior

D
Dazzle,
I like that part about looking for a lifeboat first. That's logical. But I haven't heard of this Situpa guy.

Tai Situ is one of the highest authorities in the Kagyu sect (Tibetan Buddhism).

I don't think I know how to pray. I didn't think prayer was relevant. I guess I'd better check out Thich Nhat Hanh.

CSEe

Hi footiam , I wanted to belief in Buddha all of us living or non- living are actually in purification process towards Buddha .... I do not understand the axistance of other energy since I do belief all of us ( living or non-living) just like in the river flowing towards buddha but each with different speed.

footiam

Dear Compassionate_Warrior,

Thanks for the information on Situpa. Over here, Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism prosper but Tibetan style Buddhism is taking root but I think the core teaching should all be the same. I don't think I know how to pray either. Maybe, it's not relevant- at least for now.

Dear CSEe,

I think your belief is good since it generates positive thoughts.