Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Jeffrey, I don't think you are qualified to speculate about whether my mind is clear or not or if I have "sin" . You are simply paraphrasing what you've read all the time....and yes after much experience, 'gurus' don't impress me any more, I found a better teacher in another tradition.
That's like telling a child who's been abused to keep quiet and respect the abuser.
:eek2:
No it isn't. It's like a child who has been abused by her father and her declaring and deciding, by her own experiences, to incite hate of all fathers because they are just like her abusive father.
You tell the child to learn to differentiate her experiences from those of other people, and to understand her experience is most likely the anomaly rather than the norm. And to stop inciting hate.
Jeffrey,Lama Shenpen appears to be a nice woman from whom you get e-mail teachings and advice.
I can assure you I have a lot of offline experience which it is better that I don't discuss in detail with strangers on the internet. OK? So please don't push me to say more.
No need to talk about your experience. I am trying to share my positive experience. Reflect on how you would feel if I had been abused in the Therevada tradition and I were critical of your practice, teachers, and teachings.
I guess I will just ignore it from now on because I conclude it is emotional.
That's like telling a child who's been abused to keep quiet and respect the abuser.
:eek2:
No it isn't. It's like a child who has been abused by her father and her declaring and deciding, by her own experiences, to incite hate of all fathers because they are just like her abusive father.
You tell the child to learn to differentiate her experiences from those of other people, and to understand her experience is most likely the anomaly rather than the norm. And to stop inciting hate.
Why try to silence people? Speaking the truth has nothing to do with hate( or being emotional ) There are others who have had negative experiences too, so best if we leave it right there and move on, Dorje.
I didn't mean you shut people up. You can talk about your experiences, and learn from their experiences, and let people know what your experiences are. But if you are going to paint the entire tradition with your bad experiences, that's where you're wrong. I have had bad experiences from other traditions as well. But you don't see me running around being disrespectful of them nor do I talk bad about them. I might talk about my experiences if it might benefit others, but I certainly won't make sweeping statements about the entire tradition as a whole.
But you're right. We'll leave it at that, and move on.
I mean obviously you shouldn't practice guru yoga with a corrupt guru. I think its rather like putting the dharma books in a high place in your home or bowing to your shrine. It shows your connection to the teachings.
But if your guru isn't worthy of respect and there teachings are wrong in your evaluation then you needn't hold them high.
maybe this thread can be separated into "false teachers" (or similar)?
Currently, threads can't be separated and I'm not sure if @Lincoln is planning on adding that feature, so it's up to you whether you'd like to start a new topic or not.
One must form a relationship to the guru in the same way that they would form a relationship to the sutras. If you don't listen to the guru you stay lost.
Yes that's the party line - taken to extremes of brain washing if one reads 'Guru Yoga' which is part of the TB four foundation practices..
Jeffrey, are you familiar with Guru Yoga? It's far from what you describe as similar to the relationship we have with the suttras. It's a specific practice, where one elevates the guru to the status of the embodiment of the Buddha, the personification of the Dharma, an infallible personage whose every wish (according to some) is the student's command. This is how it has often been presented, though some practitioners have said this is an exaggeration. At any rate, when misconstrued (sometimes deliberately, by the teacher), the student can be extremely vulnerable. When not understood correctly, it is a dangerous practice.
If you have not received any instructions in the practice of Guru Yoga, then of course misunderstandings such as this can happen.
When you practice Guru Yoga, you visualize the lineage lama (e.g. Sakya Pandita, Je Tsongkhapa, Guru Rinpoche, Milarepa, etc.) and not the lama who confers the initiation. This is how I was taught.
When you visualize them above your crown, it is as if they are looking at your every action, listening to your every word, watching your every thought. This way Guru Yoga is good practice for developing discipline.
When it comes to receiving instructions and clarifying doubts to your practices with your own lama, you visualize the lineage lama giving them to you instead. That way you receive the blessings of the lineage lama, and speed up your progress.
Ultimately, Guru Yoga is a method to point out the nature of mind, which encompasses the Noble Eightfold Path and the 6 Paramitas, the 37 practices of the Bodhisattva, and all the samaya vows in a single practice.
No I do not practice guru yoga and thus am not familiar with it. But it sounds like dorje does have some experience with it beyond what you (compassionate warrior) have read.
Guru Yoga can be, and has been, misused. That's all. Someone told me that following the guru's wishes in Guru Yoga only applies to spiritual practice, (such as, practicing the teachings and techniques) Anything else, such as offering one's body, or one's wife's body (as Milarepa did) isn't kosher. That's what is meant by understanding the practice correctly.
Comments
.
You criticize guru yoga as a slam rather than criticize the understanding of the students of the guru. That is foolish.
Be careful what you are saying to me, Jeffrey, You might end up in the hell realms, LOL !
That's like telling a child who's been abused to keep quiet and respect the abuser.
:eek2:
You tell the child to learn to differentiate her experiences from those of other people, and to understand her experience is most likely the anomaly rather than the norm. And to stop inciting hate.
Jeffrey,Lama Shenpen appears to be a nice woman from whom you get e-mail teachings and advice.
I can assure you I have a lot of offline experience which it is better that I don't discuss in detail with strangers on the internet. OK? So please don't push me to say more.
.
I guess I will just ignore it from now on because I conclude it is emotional.
Why try to silence people? Speaking the truth has nothing to do with hate( or being emotional ) There are others who have had negative experiences too, so best if we leave it right there and move on, Dorje.
.
Whatever.
But you're right. We'll leave it at that, and move on.
But if your guru isn't worthy of respect and there teachings are wrong in your evaluation then you needn't hold them high.
in the aspect you have described, i have no disagreement. indeed, knowing the nature of mind, whatever the method, is phenomenoligical (imo)
kind regards
DD
When you practice Guru Yoga, you visualize the lineage lama (e.g. Sakya Pandita, Je Tsongkhapa, Guru Rinpoche, Milarepa, etc.) and not the lama who confers the initiation. This is how I was taught.
When you visualize them above your crown, it is as if they are looking at your every action, listening to your every word, watching your every thought. This way Guru Yoga is good practice for developing discipline.
When it comes to receiving instructions and clarifying doubts to your practices with your own lama, you visualize the lineage lama giving them to you instead. That way you receive the blessings of the lineage lama, and speed up your progress.
Ultimately, Guru Yoga is a method to point out the nature of mind, which encompasses the Noble Eightfold Path and the 6 Paramitas, the 37 practices of the Bodhisattva, and all the samaya vows in a single practice.