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On Christian devotion and Buddhist meditation
stavros388
Explorer
Does anyone have any experience trying to get rid of baggage/doctrinal confusion left over from another tradition, particularly a Christian one? I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy a few years back after a long search for the "right religion", but have struggled to mesh the church's strict dogmatism and some of its practices and views with my personal beliefs and experiences. I've been doing two different spiritual practices for quite awhile now: a deep, Christian-based prayer method called Prayer of the Heart (somewhat like a mantra, but very devotional) and Buddhist meditation (just breath awareness and Vipassana). Sometimes my heart feels like it is on fire from years of doing the prayer, but the Vipassana helps me so much, I feel that perhaps I should make it my sole focus.
Because I find in Buddhism a religion that is based on practical experience (at least in the Theravada and Zen traditions to which I'm most attracted) and doesn't require blind faith, I have often tried to "let go" of the Prayer of the Heart and Christianity, only to find in a day or two, my heart aches for prayer. Based on your own understanding of Buddhism, what is your view on this? Am I delusional for feeling this way? Do you think it would be best to purge myself of all devotional impulses and just follow the Noble 8 fold path? Or redirect these impulses using metta practice? Have I just been feeding a natural feeling, or fostering a kind of delusion, in your opinion? I wonder how this kind of experience would be explained from a Buddhist perspective...
Thank you for any insights or kind opinions in advance.
(btw, I was actually here before as qoheleth, but had to change my name and password for some reason...)
Because I find in Buddhism a religion that is based on practical experience (at least in the Theravada and Zen traditions to which I'm most attracted) and doesn't require blind faith, I have often tried to "let go" of the Prayer of the Heart and Christianity, only to find in a day or two, my heart aches for prayer. Based on your own understanding of Buddhism, what is your view on this? Am I delusional for feeling this way? Do you think it would be best to purge myself of all devotional impulses and just follow the Noble 8 fold path? Or redirect these impulses using metta practice? Have I just been feeding a natural feeling, or fostering a kind of delusion, in your opinion? I wonder how this kind of experience would be explained from a Buddhist perspective...
Thank you for any insights or kind opinions in advance.
(btw, I was actually here before as qoheleth, but had to change my name and password for some reason...)
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Comments
The Prayer of the Heart is always presented as a practice to be done with the supervision of an experienced guide (which I've yet to find) and is meant to accompany strict adherence to all facets of the religion, as well as participation in the sacraments. That is why, when feeling confused about these issues (faith, doctrine, etc), I have derived great benefit and relief from practicing mindfulness.
I have tried to identify the prayer on the internet.
If the prayer is: ""Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner," then my opinion is this does not accord well with Buddhist practises.
The Buddha taught 'sin' or 'unskilful harmful action' is caused by ignorance or not-knowing (rather than by the personal will or 'self'). Buddhism does not teach about "sinners".
The Buddha taught if we take refuge in and abide by the Buddhist path then we simply let go of the past. This is similar to how Christians are 'reborn' or gain 'New Life' when they take refuge in Jesus Christ. The old is made new.
If your mind has the fullness of faith that Christ is mercyful, that he does forgive, that he is the embodiment of love, then yes, such a prayer can be purifying.
But to repeatedly recite: "Have mercy on me a sinner", for me, this is not sit well in my heart from a Buddhist perspective.
Kind regards
DD
However, I know that Quakers are a Christian denomination who practice meditation that is close both to your church's practices, and Buddhist practices. Maybe you could investigate them? (the Religious Society of Friends).
Alternatively, as other posters have said, maybe you are ready to move beyond your Christian religion to becoming a practising Buddhist? In which case, you will need to look for a prayer that is more compatible with that worldview. I second the suggestion that you might find what you are looking for in Tibetan Buddhism, which has mantras, prayers and "Yidam practice", which is a little similar to idea of praying to a saint, as some Christian denominations do. You basically pick a yidam ('god') who embodies the virtues you wish to emulate, and meditate on their qualities, say mantras and prayers to them etc.
I believe that generally, in Tibetan practice, your teacher gives you your yidam and a mantra to go with that, but quite a lot of people just pick one they feel drawn to. I have even known some pray to Jesus - they feel he is a Bodhisattva, a Buddha who came to earth to rescue others from suffering.
The only thing you won't find compatible is the idea of needing mercy because you're a sinner. Buddhism puts a more positive spin on that. Repentance is important, but identifying yourself as a sinner is not. No wonder you are feeling upset if you are chanting that you're a sinner all the time! Better to pray "Lord Jesus Christ, show me your compassion", or the prayer of St Francis: where there is darkness, let me be light; where there is hatred, let me bring love..." etc.
You want to aspire to be more like Jesus not beat yourself up! There are many, many things you could chant that would help you, and be compatible with some of your Christian beliefs that you don't want to leave behind.
All the best.
I believe the Buddha's teachings are true. I feel emotionally connected to Christ, but simply cannot believe everything that comes with being Christian. Yes, I feel that if I am having so much confusion with this other practice, even if it sometimes feels right, I will have to let go of what has been unskillful and move on. Thanks for that.
Thanks for sharing your impressions, everyone.
Also, you might want to check out "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh.
I think that mindfulness and/or calmness meditation is very useful but having come from an Orthodox background, you might get some more usefulness from the Brahmaviharas. Start with metta meditation - if done properly it is quite a remarkable experience and can help in all aspects of your life. Venerable Mahinda (a Theravadin Buddhist monk) has a guided metta meditation that you can download from here: http://www.justbegood.net/Downloads/Other talks/Metta Meditation.mp3
And don't forget, if you are Greek that the Greeks came across Buddhism and in fact became Buddhist before they became a Christian nation. There is quite a bit of information on the internet about Greco-Buddhism during the Gandharan period when the Greek and Indian empires met at the Bactrian states. And of course the Greek involvement in Buddhism is enshrined in the Pali text, the Milindapanha - a debate between King Menander and a Buddhism monk after which the King declares himself as a convert to Buddhism.
Metta,
Vangelis
My own road to a 'fusion' of Christian and Buddhist beliefs and practice has taken (?is taking) many years and a great deal of study. It has met opposition from both Christians and Buddhists, although rarely among the best of them.
Many events, people and books have contributed to my understanding as it is today.
I, too, use the Jesus Prayer as a mantra when it feels appropriate and the beads of my mala have never complained. Just like reciting Om Mane Padme Hum, the words themselves are simply very sketchy maps of a far greater territory and, with the repetition, they fade into that landscape. "Have mercy" is what we can ask, if we recognise our frailty, from any friend. "Sinner" has become "debtor" for me (from the Greek and Latin Lord's Prayer), and recognising my indebtedness has been real fuel to a benevolent mind.
Year by year, walking miles, fingering my beads, I have ceased to be surprised that I am regularly presented with words, actions or moments which strengthen my belief. This Christmas, I was given Brother David Steindl-Rast's recent book Deeper Than Words and, on Christmas day, by the fire, in the quiet of a now-empty house, I read: and, for those whose understanding of the meaning of "faith" (Gr. pistis) in this context has been poisoned by divisive teaching:
And in fact, in Orthodoxy, the goal is theosis (union with God). "God became man so that man might become God" is the esoteric formula of Orthodox spirituality. So there is a sense of non-duality there, but most Christians wouldn't say it as you have.
That said, regarding Orthodox Christians, most of them believe that they are the "one true church" and that everyone else is wrong, or worse, damned. It's sad, really. Buddhism is much more accommodating. :thumbup:
That said, my discomfort with me being restricted to a Christianity on the terms of Orthodoxy (rather than my own) is part of the reason I am suffering confusion, and feeling compelled to re-orient myself.
PS I have read that book, years ago. Perhaps I should re-read it.
In spiritual practice, there is no dogma, no belief, no holiness, no advancement and no falling back. It is just practice. Later, looking back, some dogma may be created as a means of encouraging further effort, but in practice, dogma is no where to be found.
So, for example, in "The Way of a Pilgrim," the starets heaps on more and more and more repetitions of the Jesus prayer and the pilgrim strives to meet the requirements. More and more, harder and harder, longer and longer until, with time there is no need to push the river. The river, the prayer, just flows and the prayer just prays. Nothing is relinquished because nothing, in fact, was ever in hand.
This is where practice takes all of us, whatever the stripe. At first, it's hard and deliberate -- a belief system or a dogma. Dogma stacks up like dust mice, encouraging and confounding and delighting us. But a little at a time, the practice shows the way -- not as a matter of letting go and not as a matter of holding on, not as a matter of bliss and not as a matter of sorrow, not as a matter of intellect and not as a matter of emotion. It is just practice and this practice goes on forever.
FWIW.
"The Way of the Pilgrim" is the tattered little book I found so many years ago in a used bookstore that led me to the prayer practice in the first place.
I came upon some writing by Frithjof Schuon yesterday (an author I appreciate) wherein he said that dogmas often end in error, but this is made up for by the fruits of the practice which is preserved and encouraged by the dogma.
I appreciate your perspective! I'll be pondering these thoughts and questions.